Sick Mother Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I asked this question in the technical section, but thought I'd try here as well and see if I can get more traction... I currently have a Parasound Halo A52 putting out 125wpc run by a Denon 3808ci powering my RF-83s. I have been using the Parasound instead of the Denon for amplification because I believe it does a better job (although I have never done an A/B test on the two). With the possibility of bi-amping the Denon, I am wondering if I will see any noticeable improvments. Will I lose headroom going this route? Are there any other factors I should be considering? I know alot of people would say to hook it up and try it, but before I go through the huge pain it would be, I'm hoping someone with experience will chime in. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nezff Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 there is not a huge difference if you are just removing the metal straps and biamping that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sick Mother Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 The 3808ci has outputs for biamping, so it wouldn't be just removing the metal bracket if that is what you're thinking. The Denon rep told me I would then have 130w going to the highs and another 130w going to the lows. It seems it would be a big improvement over the 125wpc I am getting with the Parasound, but I just don't know if this is in fact the case. I saw another thread here on something similar to this, but it didnt really involve a seperate amp, which is why I have started this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 The 3808ci has outputs for biamping, so it wouldn't be just removing the metal bracket if that is what you're thinking. The Denon rep told me I would then have 130w going to the highs and another 130w going to the lows. It seems it would be a big improvement over the 125wpc I am getting with the Parasound, but I just don't know if this is in fact the case. I saw another thread here on something similar to this, but it didnt really involve a seperate amp, which is why I have started this one. I don't see how it would be a big improvement but here is a thread from 2 Channel on the same subject. http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/86427/1168517.aspx#1168517 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nezff Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 the denon rep is wrong. Most all newer receivers have biamp hookups on the back of them. You can use the rear surround outputs to biamp your front speakers. You are NOT getting double the power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 The 3808ci has outputs for biamping, so it wouldn't be just removing the metal bracket if that is what you're thinking. The Denon rep told me I would then have 130w going to the highs and another 130w going to the lows. Then he needs to go back to stereo school 101. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nezff Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 true biamping has something to do with removing the xover out of the mix, if Im not mistaken. All you would be doing is using MORE wire, MORE banana plugs, and MORE time. believe me, I had my original setup biamped. I just used it because I wasnt going back and removing all the wire and plugs I used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted June 3, 2009 Moderators Share Posted June 3, 2009 My yamaha allows for biamping by using the rear channels and changing a setting within the setup to tell it that you are biamping. My ears heard absolutely no difference. My understanding is that is because in order to have true biamp, you need to have some form of active crossovers and is a much more difficult setup. My guess is that your Parasound will sound better than the Denon, even in biamp mode, due to having a dedicated (or multiple) power supplies in the Parasound. Receivers run out of juice because they are doing the decoding and trying to drive 5 or 7 speakers using the same power supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sick Mother Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Youthman, In regards to the Parasound being the better choice; that was my guess too. The Denon uses rear surround outs to "bi-amp". Lol I was really hoping to see a bump in power this way. The RF-83s are rated at 250w rms and the most I have ever fed them is 125w. I would love to see what I am missing. Of course, at that point I would really being driving myself mad feeling the need to upgrade the amp to a Parasound A51 (250w) or something along those lines... Ignorance is bliss? [*-)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nezff Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 you have to understand that your 83s are very efficient. I am giving my RF63s somewhere around 140 watts per channel. You will be fine using your seperate amp, because this is what it is made for. You could always upgrade your amp in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sick Mother Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 So far I have been very happy with the Parasound and I am aware of the speaker's sensitivity. I also know that many Klipsch speakers (the RF-7 to name one) really sings with even more power. I don't know that to be the case with the 83s, but it sure has me wondering. I guess its like all GOOD/GREAT things...people want to know what is better. I'm sure there is some yahoo out there with Wilsons,PF-39s, Revel Salon2 or some other crazy speakers powered by a Halrco, Krell,etc. and is wondering "what can I do to make this sound better?" Lol right now I am one of those guys...minus the super high end gear. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted June 3, 2009 Moderators Share Posted June 3, 2009 In regards to the Parasound being the better choice; that was my guess too. The Denon uses rear surround outs to "bi-amp". Lol I was really hoping to see a bump in power this way. The RF-83s are rated at 250w rms and the most I have ever fed them is 125w. I would love to see what I am missing. Of course, at that point I would really being driving myself mad feeling the need to upgrade the amp to a Parasound A51 (250w) or something along those lines... Do you need a "bump in power" or are you just curious that you are "missing something" by not having more power? Yes, the RF-83's can handle 250 watts of continuous power but your ears could not physically stand that. Most of the time, you are only utilizing a few watts of power. It's during explosions, drum hits etc that more power is needed. It's all about headroom. Think of it this way. If you have a Ferarri and are driving along at 40mph and you are getting on interstate and there is a Semi truck you want to get in front of, a simple press of the accelerator and you are flying at over 100mph. Now you switch cars and hop into your Honda Accord. Is it a good car, yes. Does it have descent acceleration? Sure. Does it have to work much harder to get to over 100mph? You betcha. The Ferarri isn't even breaking a sweat at 100mph, whereas the Honda might is pretty much maxed out. When a receiver is having to do the processing, plus drive 5 - 7 speakers at loud volumes, it simply is having to work very hard to do it effectively. That's at least how I understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sick Mother Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Do you need a "bump in power" or are you just curious that you are "missing something" by not having more power? This is a case of "missing something". Ultimately though, if i am in fact missing something, than I would also need a "bump in power" lol. Obviously, I don't NEED more volume, or really power for that matter, but I am wondering if there would be a (measurable) difference in sound QUALITY with an additional 125wpc (or any amount for that matter). It may not be the case with a quality 125w that the Parasound is putting out, but since I don't know, I'm asking you guys. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted June 3, 2009 Moderators Share Posted June 3, 2009 I wish you were a little closer so I could see if your parasound would make a noticable difference over my Yamaha receiver. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sick Mother Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Prior to my current setup, I had Synergy F-3s, C-3, and S-2s powered by a H/K AVR 235. It sounded very nice. Then I bought the Parasound and the differenence was ENORMOUS. At that point I was using an amp that had a rating equal to the RMS of the mains. I then bought my RF-83s and, to be quite honest, didn't hear a night and day difference. I have since gotten very used to the sound of my system, upgraded to the 3808ci, ran Audessey, tweaked my sub settings, blah blah blah, and now I like my system more than ever. Still... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bailz Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 whats that baxter? you ate a whole wheel of cheese? im not even mad, im ipressed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 whats that baxter? you ate a whole wheel of cheese? im not even mad, im ipressed Knights of Columbus that hurt!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bailz Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 i have many leather bound books, and my home smells of rich mohogany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 It stings the nostrils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bailz Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 baxter is that you? bark twice if your in milwaukee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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