superedge88 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I have had Boston micro 90X speakers as my surround speakers for a while now, knowing the whole time that while they are good speakers, they don't come close to matching my KLF-30 main speakers. I just bought a pair of refurbished RSX 5 speakers to use as my surrounds. The RSX 5 speakers are 4 db more efficient than the bostons, have a larger woofer, and are generally speaking a more beefy speaker than my bostons. My main question is this : Since the RSX speakers are 4 db more efficient than the old surround speakers, shouldn't I be able to lower the gain on my new RSX-5 surround speakers and raise the gain to my KLF-30 speakers? I am also reading a lot about passive biamping my main speakers with my Denon receiver, but you all know how confusing that can be with all the varying opinions, may be a project for a rainy day to see if there would be any audible difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted June 17, 2009 Moderators Share Posted June 17, 2009 I am also reading a lot about passive biamping my main speakers with my Denon receiver, but you all know how confusing that can be with all the varying opinions, may be a project for a rainy day to see if there would be any audible difference. Exactly. Try it, it won't hurt. I did and I heard no audible difference whatsoever with my Yamaha. From my understanding, in order to truly benefit from biamping, you will need an active crossover and is much more complicated to setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistaChy Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 what does all this biamping do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted June 17, 2009 Moderators Share Posted June 17, 2009 Nothing unless you use an active crossover. Article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superedge88 Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 I am still wondering about my main question about gain adjustment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I am still wondering about my main question about gain adjustment. If you run Audyssey it will equalize your new speakers to your fronts as you've described. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I am still wondering about my main question about gain adjustment. The real question is why do you want to Bi-Amp?? Until you are at a much higher level then you are now in the speaker department, you will get alot more sound improvement by upgrading your speakers then spending the money on extra amps and wire, and then you have to get everything set up correctly with the active cross overs and amps. It is your money, so spend it how you want, but alot more is to be gained in the speakers. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I am still wondering about my main question about gain adjustment. simple answer, for a properly balanced system, you have to turn DOWN all your efficient Klipsch speakers to match the level of those inefficient speakers in your setup. Kind of a waste, isn't it? 'Passive biamping' available in modern receivers is marketing hoo-ha, in an ideal world you'll be pumping double the wattage (a whopping +3db) into your MOST efficient main speakers , which you'll then have to turn down anyway. Not a worthwhile project imho. Dump the BA or use them in another room, stay with all Klipsch and you'll maximize your system's synergy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
convicted21 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Hes not using the Bostons anymore (see first post) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superedge88 Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 I am still wondering about my main question about gain adjustment. If you run Audyssey it will equalize your new speakers to your fronts as you've described. Audyssey turns DOWN the main speakers to match the rear speakers instead of turning up the rear speakers to match the more efficient main speakers. So I am trying to bypass Audyssey and make the correct adjustments. I guess I will just experiment with the gain settings and still err on the side of conservative to avoid clipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superedge88 Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 I am still wondering about my main question about gain adjustment. The real question is why do you want to Bi-Amp?? Until you are at a much higher level then you are now in the speaker department, you will get alot more sound improvement by upgrading your speakers then spending the money on extra amps and wire, and then you have to get everything set up correctly with the active cross overs and amps. It is your money, so spend it how you want, but alot more is to be gained in the speakers. Roger So considering that my main speakers have 102 db sensitivity, what speakers are you referring to that would be "at a much higher level". I understand that the KLF-30's aren't the best speakers out there, but they are definitely not slouches. My main question was not about biamping, but was about gain control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Sorry, I thought they were all being used. Same general principle, you're turning down your main speakers RELATIVE to any lesser efficiency speakers.Forget about whether your receiver is call the RSX a +volume or the KLF -volume, it's all relative, the amp can't put out more signal than it can put out. (you don't gain anything by having speakers at +10 on the on screen display). Maybe +4 on the little guys, -2 on the big ones, something like that, centering on zero might be best. Also depending on your receiver, the crossover point for SMALL speakers needs to be 10-20 hz above the lowest frequency they will reproduce. Are you running your mains as LARGE or SMALL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superedge88 Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 I am crossing over the KLF30's at 60 hertz, will have the RSX5's crossed over at 110 hertz since they can only go down to about 90 hertz. I am letting the sub do a lot of the heavy work to avoid clipping in my main speakers and surrounds. Thanks for the specific questions and recommendations colterphoto1 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I am still wondering about my main question about gain adjustment. The real question is why do you want to Bi-Amp?? Until you are at a much higher level then you are now in the speaker department, you will get alot more sound improvement by upgrading your speakers then spending the money on extra amps and wire, and then you have to get everything set up correctly with the active cross overs and amps. It is your money, so spend it how you want, but alot more is to be gained in the speakers. Roger So considering that my main speakers have 102 db sensitivity, what speakers are you referring to that would be "at a much higher level". I understand that the KLF-30's aren't the best speakers out there, but they are definitely not slouches. My main question was not about biamping, but was about gain control. SUPEREDGE88, Better speakers then your KLF-30s? Well, I just sld my K-Horns, and I would buy better amps with my K-Horns before I would even think about a bi-amping situation with them Jubilees is were I would start seriously considdering Bi-Amping at the Jubilee level. my K-Horns and LaScalas were 104Db sensitive I have 9 TSCM Bass Bins and 5 TSCM tops. These are the Pro Version of a K-Horn, and I would considder Bi-Amping these if I had nowhere left to spend my money. I am working on putting together a set of MCMs and those are 108 Db sensitive. I also just bought a set of KP-600 stacks. The KP-600s were made from 1989 to 1994, and were $25,000 for a pair of stacks when they were new, so yes, there is a long ways to go up in speaker performance from where you are, before you worry about spending what monies you do have on Bi-Amping. Get in touch with someone on the forum that has a pair of Jubilees, or other pair of the big pro speakers. There is a world of sound difference to be had by upgrading speakers and more improvement per dollars spent. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superedge88 Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 Thanks for the recommendations, but I would rather buy a car instead of paying all the money in upgrades needed to run the speakers you are talking about. Pretty content with the amazing sound I now have with my present set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superedge88 Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 So far I am very impressed with the RSX-5 speakers, much more hefty then I thought they would be. The wife doesn't like the looks of them, but she isn't fussing too much. I love how much I had to turn dow the gain, about 4 db to get them to match witht the KLF-30's (from where I had it set for the boston speakers) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistaChy Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 looks really nice. i have a pair i have cumming for surround back. they look a little beefy and very well placed. good job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peshewah Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 The RSX 5 put out alot of sound for their size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I have a pair of RSX-4's as surrounds running with RF-63's and an RC-64. I don't feel that they are lacking at all. Would RS-52's or 62's be better? Yes, but for now these little speakers sound great. Just MHO. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I have a pair of RSX-4's running with RF-63's and an RC-64. I don't feel they are lacking at all. Would a pair of RS-52's or 62's be better? Yes, but for now these little speakers sound great. Just MHO. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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