Any Suggestions for a 2 Way Crossover Network Design: Khorn or LaScala with Altec 511 or Mantaray Horn?

[nola]

New adventure: want to try KH or LS bass bins paired with Altec 511s or one of the Mantaray horns.

But need a 2 way crossover. Until I figure this out, I guess I can use a 3 way AA network with the Altec 902 (511 driver) or 29x series driver (for the M-ray) and just use the 511 or M-ray as just a mid squaker. Current intent is just to use the AAs (if need be) for brief periods of time while testing out the new horns to avoid any damage to AA or drivers.

I think I want the 2 way crossover point to be at about 500 Hz. This is "pushing it" for the K33 and bass bins and for the Altecs as best as I can figure, and might be the best compromise for a way network. The Altecs would be both mid and tweeter.

I do not know how to design a crossover on my own. (I am not sure which values of the K33 woofer driver and Altec 902 driver are used, nor a design program to use. Much less which order and which filtering technique to use.) Idea would be to keep it as simple as possible with few components. By the fall/winter I would likely buy an active xover like the Behringer DCN2496, Ashly 2001, or dbx PA or PA+.

Any design assistance or plans, software info, etc. appreciated

NOLA-your xover noob in the Big Easy

[Coytee]

I have a crossover designed by Al Klappenberger. It's one of his extreme slopes and was originally designed for the LaScala as a 2-way. I don't know much about it. My LaScalas are 3-ways so I had to buy his ES5800 (or what ever the HF section is called).

I think this is something like an ES600?

Perhaps if Shawn Fogg reads this he might chime in as to what it is....

Here's my point... I have ZERO idea if it will work for you (and sound right). I have three of them (3-LaScalas) however, one of them is currently uninstalled and simply sitting inside one of my LaScalas until I get to that project. I've had a LaScala sealed in a box for 3 years. Probably mummified by now!

If you would like to borrow this you are welcome to. Might at least be a starting point. I doubt it's configured for the HF section that you are contemplating. Again, more of my ignorance.

With that said.... what I would REALLY suggest you try is an active 2-way crossover. I'll admit I'm partial to the EV Dx38 since I own one. It will allow you to configure your 2-way just about any way you want/need. It will also allow you to dial in some signal delay and you might also find that to be an improvement.

There are those who say these sound steril, thin or other comments.... hard for me to keep up with all of them.

I use it, I like it and I think it works well for my needs. You can sometimes find them on Ebay for about $600/$700 used (about $1,300 new)

That would possibly put it less expensive than a pair of ES networks? AND do everything you need.

[Islander]

A time-aligned 2-way Khorn might sound pretty good.

[Guest David H]

what I would REALLY suggest you try is an active 2-way crossover. I'll admit I'm partial to the EV Dx38 since I own one. It will allow you to configure your 2-way just about any way you want/need. It will also allow you to dial in some signal delay and you might also find that to be an improvement.

I second the use of an active. I have a modified Behringer DCX 2496 I am using and Johnny 5 just picked up an Ashley. both work nicely, but the Ashley anaolg and is easier to use.

[nola]

Thanks again

I appreciate the offer for borrowing an extreme slope xover. )

I am not ready for the active purchase yet. 1 Q: how do I fugure out the time delay stuff?

I think my needs now are for a simple 2 way xover. I think my values are:

500 Hz, 4 ohms for K33 woofer, 6-7 ohms for the altec, great plains audio 902 for the 511 mid horn/tweeter combo

http://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/XOver/ but found similar stuff elsewhere too (http://www.ajdesigner.com/crossover/crossoverfirst.php)

1st Order Solen Split

500 Hertz

7 Ohm Tweeter / 4 Ohm Woofer

Parts List Capacitors C1 = 32.14 uF Inductors L1 = 1.8 mH

c1 becomes 37.5 uF for 6 ohms

1st Order Butterworth

500 Hertz

6 Ohm Tweeter / 4 Ohm Woofer

Parts List Capacitors C1 = 53 uF Inductors L1 = 1.27 mH

at 7 ohms c1 becomes 45.43 uF

Butterworth, Solen split, yikes.... Other sources, of the few I found also lead to c1, L1 numbers all over the place. So, what should I do?????

[Blvdre]

I believe the k-33's impedance is 6 ohms.

If you don't mind DIY, why not go with Al K's AP12-500? Designed just for this purpose. If you go to his website , select "klipsch" on the left hand link bar, then downloads and scroll down for the AP-12 schematic and parts list (he has several designs for differing crossover points).

If you decide to go with a simple first order crossover, you will need to attenuate your high end with either an l-pad or an autoformer.

[Islander]

I am not ready for the active purchase yet. 1 Q: how do I fugure out the time delay stuff?

With a passive crossover, time delay is difficult to achieve and more difficult to adjust. With an active crossover, you dial in the delay you want and easily adjust it if you need to (if you move your tweeter horn relative to your woofer horn, for example).

[Don Richard]

Both the A and AA networks have no rolloff on the midrange output. I have put a 511 Altec horn on top of a Khorn as a two-way with an A network with no mods.

[JohnA]

Start with this:

Thread

You'll need to tweak the values for the La Scala bass bin to lower the crossover point to 600 Hz. The high-pass is ~15 dB/octave and contours out a 2 to 4 dB hump in the 902/511B response from 500 Hz to 2k Hz. You need the slope to be as steep as practical to keep the 902's diaphragm from buzzing. I did the modeling on XoverPro.

Predicted response curve: