Boomzilla Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I currently have a bottom-of-the-line Yamaha AV receiver (power rated only at 1KHz at about 50 watts/channel). I plan to drive a pair of Cornwalls, whose bass-reflex, port-loaded 15" woofers will probably require some high damping factor. I also have a (newly-acquired, not-yet-hooked-up) McIntosh C41-MC350 pair. The MC puts out 350 watts per channel. My question is... How much difference will I hear with the Mac gear? I know that 350 wpc is GROSS overkill for ANY normal loudspeaker (much less the highly-efficient Cornwall). I can sell the McIntosh gear & buy a significantly more hoity-toity AVR, should I choose to go that route. The bottom line is - assuming that I'll be running the Cornwalls full-range (as opposed to with a subwoofer), just where is the point of diminishing returns so far as amplification goes? Assuming that cost is not a major issue, and that the usage is to be approximately 50% music and 50% movies, what is reasonable on the amplification front? AV receivers (at least in the premium category) now have good power supplies, damping factors, and conservative designs. Is there REALLY much to be gained from the pre-power route? Your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormin Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 In my opinion the difference between that bottom of the line Yamaha receiver and the Mac seperates will be like walking across the room in the dark stumbling along the way to finally come upon a light switch. If I were to own another pair of Cornwalls I would only run them with tube amplification. Unlike many of the other Klipsch speakers that really benefit from the extra power Cornwalls in my experience are not one of them. They just need a few quality watts that glow in the dark. Good luck, with the Mac and Cornwalls you sure don't have a lack of quality gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 200 wpc is pretty normal in here... Give you headroom and dynamics too. That said, not all 200 WPC amps are created equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 My CW2s are very happy with my 45 wpc tube amp and in fact are using only about 1 watt average for normal listening (with peaks up from there of course) so 4 X that power should be enough. In my HT, I am using a Yamaha RXV 663 with a Fort'e amp powering the mains (Fort'e 1s) and there is more than enough power left in the HTR to sound awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AltmanEars Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Its not that your amp pre amp are overkill its merely that you have not optimized your system around its needs. Even if you had infinite financial resources you would not want to run Cornwalls with a 350 watt amp since amplifiers of this power rarely sound good. Furthermore AV processors of all prices sound pretty poor. When your hifi shares duty as your movie theater you are best off using some sort of passthru and a decent preamp. I would imagine that at this stage you have not heard a decent tube preamp with your system. I suggest you borrow one... If you substitute the bottom of the line McIntosh preamp for your current unit and you find that you really can't tell the difference --- you are in luck --- you can't really hear and any number of solutions should satisfy you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Its not that your amp pre amp are overkill its merely that you have not optimized your system around its needs. Even if you had infinite financial resources you would not want to run Cornwalls with a 350 watt amp since amplifiers of this power rarely sound good. Furthermore AV processors of all prices sound pretty poor. When your hifi shares duty as your movie theater you are best off using some sort of passthru and a decent preamp. I would imagine that at this stage you have not heard a decent tube preamp with your system. I suggest you borrow one... If you substitute the bottom of the line McIntosh preamp for your current unit and you find that you really can't tell the difference --- you are in luck --- you can't really hear and any number of solutions should satisfy you... So you are saying that higher powered McIntosh gear does not sound good? If so I have a MC2300 that would beg to differ! More "good" power can never hurt and power is not a bad thing. Comparing separates to any AVR I have heard, well just no comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 I agree. I have a C220 / MC252 combo on the speakers in my avatar. I rarely run over 2.5 - 5 watts out of the 250 I have. However, the power is secondary. The Mac amps have excellent sound quality even at low volumes. To answer the poster's question, the sound quality of the Mac combo (if it is operating properly) will be tons better than a Best Buy "quality" AV receiver. There will be no comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RT FAN Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Last year I bought some used McIntosh equipment to run my Chorus II's on, replacing a capable but common Onkyo receiver. To say there was a quantum leap in the presentation, soundstage and depth of the music, would not be an exaggeration. McIntosh and Klipsch is a hard to beat combo, hook them up and see/hear for yourself. Your Cornwalls will never sound the same again. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AltmanEars Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Actually I also own some McIntosh gear but I'm actually reading the guy's message. He needs to buy a prepro a decent tube preamp like the C220 and a higher quality lower powered amp. Now I own or have owned all the Krell's the Threshold/Pass amps and the McIntosh amps. To my ears in every case the lowest powered amp in the amp line sounds the best as long as the speaker is efficient, so why pay the extra money? Now one of the other guys on this forum typcially uses 1 watt on average which then argues for keeping the MC352 since that would afford the listener adequate headroom for lets say 30db peaks but I think the original poster was liberal with their definition of average power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Why not hook it up and you tell us what the difference is from actual experiance rather then have us guess what you will hear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 In my opinion the difference between that bottom of the line Yamaha receiver and the Mac seperates will be like walking across the room in the dark stumbling along the way to finally come upon a light switch. Or, like the difference between peeing on a tree in the back yard vs. tinkling into a gold and diamond-encrusted urinal at the Ritz-Carlton, with the attendant helping you zip up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Yeah Boomzilla, how hard can it be to hook up a few cables?[*-)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormin Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 In my opinion the difference between that bottom of the line Yamaha receiver and the Mac seperates will be like walking across the room in the dark stumbling along the way to finally come upon a light switch. Or, like the difference between peeing on a tree in the back yard vs. tinkling into a gold and diamond-encrusted urinal at the Ritz-Carlton, with the attendant helping you zip up. Yeah, but with this analogy it all really depends on the attendant[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbsl Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Why not hook it up and you tell us what the difference is from actual experiance rather then have us guess what you will hear? There you go again making jokes!![] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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