dollar bill Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Tom Danley is the mind behind the most intense Bass experiences of my life. His work with Intersonics and the Servodrive, which was a real SUB bin, still vibrate through me. Next to them Custom JBL Cabaret Bins and a DAS Quad 18 are the closest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 A bass reflex enclosure is the same a horn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 I s tand by my statement that if you want a pure music Sub, that you can't do better then the Klipsch KPT-684.I was gonna start a thread on this exact topic. I'd love to hear one of these subs. Do you know if they show up for sale in used condition very often? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 A bass reflex enclosure is the same a horn? There are two subs discussed. The Klipsch bass reflex and the Danley tapped horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I s tand by my statement that if you want a pure music Sub, that you can't do better then the Klipsch KPT-684. I was gonna start a thread on this exact topic. I'd love to hear one of these subs. Do you know if they show up for sale in used condition very often? Scott, I watch Klipsch on ebay at least 2 or 3 times a week, and I have only seen one in the last 3 years. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I watch Klipsch on ebay at least 2 or 3 times a week, and I have only seen one in the last 3 years. By the way, the Danley TH-SPUD design has been on the market a little less than a year. The size/shape of the Danley may be a fair bit easier to handle than a 684 or 884, and its FR goes lower and is flatter. However, the Klipsch units have higher sensitivity (Danley TH-SPUD=94 dB/W, KPT-884=98 dB/W, KPT-684=105 dB/W). I just don't have a place to put a direct radiator subwoofer of those sizes/shapes. Using two SPUDs in the front corners (which by the way increases the effectiveness of any subwoofer low end fairly dramatically) is, I would think, more than a match for a 884 placed along a wall, i.e., the only place that I could put one. I would also think that the distortion of two Danleys placed in corners might be lower than an 884 along a wall when considered at THX reference volumes. The down side of the Klipsch designs are their FRs (KPT-884 is 27 Hz, the KPT-684 is 36 Hz at their -3db points) while the Danley is more like 19 Hz. One of my criteria was to extend the low end of my Jubs by about an octave. With one tapped horn in a corner I believe that I've achieved that criterion. My classical organ CDs/SACDs have literally come to life, and it's been a pleasure listening to bass artists now (Bromberg, Clarke, Pastorius, Miller, Wilkenfeld, etc.). Movies are a new experience (e.g., Iron Man, U-571, War of the Worlds). Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I watch Klipsch on ebay at least 2 or 3 times a week, and I have only seen one in the last 3 years. By the way, the Danley TH-SPUD design has been on the market a little less than a year. The FR on the Danley goes Lower/Flatter. I would like to see both mapped out over the whole frequency response when mated with the K-Horns or the Jubs. The size/shape of the Danley may be a fair bit easier to handle than a 684 or 884, and its FR goes lower and is flatter. However, the Klipsch units have higher sensitivity (Danley TH-SPUD=94 dB/W, KPT-884=98 dB/W, KPT-684=105 dB/W). I just don't have a place to put a direct radiator subwoofer of those sizes/shapes. Using two SPUDs in the front corners (which by the way increases the effectiveness of any subwoofer low end fairly dramatically) is, I would think, more than a match for a 884 placed along a wall, i.e., the only place that I could put one. I would also think that the distortion of two Danleys placed in corners might be lower than an 884 along a wall when considered at THX reference volumes. The down side of the Klipsch designs are their FRs (KPT-884 is 27 Hz, the KPT-684 is 36 Hz at their -3db points) while the Danley is more like 19 Hz. One of my criteria was to extend the low end of my Jubs by about an octave. With one tapped horn in a corner I believe that I've achieved that criterion. My classical organ CDs/SACDs have literally come to life, and it's been a pleasure listening to bass artists now (Bromberg, Clarke, Pastorius, Miller, Wilkenfeld, etc.). Movies are a new experience (e.g., Iron Man, U-571, War of the Worlds). Chris Chris, Several problems with your post; The orriginal poster was more interested in a musical Sub then low frequencies, My HGS-18IIs play to 15Hz, the DD-18 plats to 13Hz. My recomendation was for pure musical sub that sounds the best with the speaker, as we all know that specs are not the entire picture. As stated, a Bass boost may be obtained by corner placement, but prohibitive with Jub and K-Horn, but a Bass boost can also be achieved by stacking subs, or placing the directly next to each other as seperate location sub placement can have a cancelling effect. Even so, unless we are talking a huge room, the SPL of the subs at this level it really isn't going to make much difference, and with one 18 directly above the other on the 684, you get that reinforcement effect. The Spud is going to need almost 16 watts to put out the same dB as the 684 does at one watt with the afore mentioned sensitivity rating, or a pair of Spuds will be up to 97dB, with a watt through each one (less output then a Quartet at 1 watt) Distortion levels of two Danleys vs: 884, I recomended the 684, not the 884, and if you follow Paul Klipschs statement that distortion is inversley related to efficiency, what does that do to your theory, plus possible cancellation and other possible problems, when we have determined thatwith the Jub or K-Horn, that wont be an option anyhow unless you plan on using the rear corners. Once again, with your final statement, the recomendations are for a system used most always for MUSIC, not movies. Movies have alot of material below 19Hz or audible frequencies that you feel. You can add to your movie experience with felt guteral frequencies that you can't even hear if that is a requirenment / mainly movie viewing, then there are alot more choices out there better then anything in this thread. 19Hz is not required for music unless you like Rap, Syntesized music, or compition test tone CDs. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Roger, I don't believe that I was responding to the "original poster", but to a comment made by someone else on this thread. Regards, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Roger, I don't believe that I was responding to the "original poster", but to a comment made by someone else on this thread. Regards, Chris Chris, You quoted twistedcrankcammer, which is me..... Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I don't think that the Danley playing to 19 Hz disqualifies it for music. It's a horn! It's gotta be good! [A] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I don't think that the Danley playing to 19 Hz disqualifies it for music. It's a horn! It's gotta be good! psg, I did not say it DQs it, I said it isn't needed for a strictly musical settup unless you listen to Rap, Synthesized music, or competion frequency discs. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 Jay, The KPT-684 is on the Klipsch site, under the Pro section. I think the cost is about $1600 new, but you need a seperate amp. Roger Hi Roger,I gave them a look thanks for all the time and info you posted on this, I appreciate your help; but honestly I think the 684's are overkill for my application!!! My room is on the small side and those things are huge to say the least!!! Thanks just the same, maybe I should look for something a little smaller that will have tighter bass with more power put on it. If that is possible. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Jay, The KPT-684 is on the Klipsch site, under the Pro section. I think the cost is about $1600 new, but you need a seperate amp. Roger Hi Roger,I gave them a look thanks for all the time and info you posted on this, I appreciate your help; but honestly I think the 684's are overkill for my application!!! My room is on the small side and those things are huge to say the least!!! Thanks just the same, maybe I should look for something a little smaller that will have tighter bass with more power put on it. If that is possible. Jay Good luck Jay, Listening to get where you want is half of the fun!! Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I s tand by my statement that if you want a pure music Sub, that you can't do better then the Klipsch KPT-684. I was gonna start a thread on this exact topic. I'd love to hear one of these subs. Do you know if they show up for sale in used condition very often? Scott, I watch Klipsch on ebay at least 2 or 3 times a week, and I have only seen one in the last 3 years.http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/ele/1381024554.html Roger Check this out!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/ele/1381024554.html Check this out!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 ...but honestly I think the 684's are overkill for my application!!! My room is on the small side and those things are huge to say the least!!! Thanks just the same, maybe I should look for something a little smaller that will have tighter bass with more power put on it. If that is possible.Canyonman (Jay), I think it is possible with the unit already recommended (i.e., SPUD). I now have two units, one in each corner with a Jubilee. This provides the added benefit of moving the Jub top horns closer to each other by 11" on each side, which seems to improve imaging a bit (i.e., getting the 402 top horn away from the side wall a bit reduces the intensity of close-in side wall relections and seems to increase top-end imaging detail). The SPUD bass defines "tight" bass, at least IMHO. I'm driving them with one Crown XTi-1000 set on "Biamp Subwoofer" mode, hooked to the subwoofer out of the preamp in "L-R + LFE" mode. In addition, they don't take up any more real estate in the room since the Subs and the Jubs are together in the corners, with the subs against the side walls and acting as a "false corner" for the outside of the Jub bass bins. It would work even better for a Khorn, I would think, since the mouth of the SPUD and the Khorn are, in effect, manifolded together and taking advantage of the corner-loading room gain, and the Khorn midrange apparently loses pattern control around 2-3 KHz, thus splashing its midrange energy around the nearfield much more than the K402 horn. In the Jub application, the corner location subs use the back of the Jub bass bins and radiate upward from the corner then out into the room for an effective extension of the SPUD horn of approximately 3 feet (if you orient the SPUD exit port toward the other corner and in its corner position). The SPUD box is 48" tall, which is a bit taller than the Khorn bass bin, and are 45" long, which provides a nice false corner wing extension to the Khorn bass bin. If you don't like this configuration, you could also use the two SPUDs as risers for a second row of seats. Trust me, they are quite sturdy for this purpose. Just Google "TH-SPUD". If budget is an issue (as it usually is), note that the DIY material cost was less than $500 for two complete units, including Baltic Birch Plywood, really good fasteners, Speakon connectors, and 4 of the drivers that Danley uses (Tang Band, two per subwoofer). Then you can finish the boxes in any fashion you desire--mine are raw birch right now, but I'm presently negotiating with the WAF on finishtype as she gets used to both the greatly improved sound (for virtually all music that I listen to) and visual presence. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 Chris thanks for your post and time, do you have a pic of your current setup with the spuds? Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I need to take another pic this weekend. Standby. In the meantime, you can see my setup before the tapped horns in my profile. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobie1dog Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I watch Klipsch on ebay at least 2 or 3 times a week, and I have only seen one in the last 3 years. By the way, the Danley TH-SPUD design has been on the market a little less than a year. The FR on the Danley goes Lower/Flatter. I would like to see both mapped out over the whole frequency response when mated with the K-Horns or the Jubs. The size/shape of the Danley may be a fair bit easier to handle than a 684 or 884, and its FR goes lower and is flatter. However, the Klipsch units have higher sensitivity (Danley TH-SPUD=94 dB/W, KPT-884=98 dB/W, KPT-684=105 dB/W). I just don't have a place to put a direct radiator subwoofer of those sizes/shapes. Using two SPUDs in the front corners (which by the way increases the effectiveness of any subwoofer low end fairly dramatically) is, I would think, more than a match for a 884 placed along a wall, i.e., the only place that I could put one. I would also think that the distortion of two Danleys placed in corners might be lower than an 884 along a wall when considered at THX reference volumes. The down side of the Klipsch designs are their FRs (KPT-884 is 27 Hz, the KPT-684 is 36 Hz at their -3db points) while the Danley is more like 19 Hz. One of my criteria was to extend the low end of my Jubs by about an octave. With one tapped horn in a corner I believe that I've achieved that criterion. My classical organ CDs/SACDs have literally come to life, and it's been a pleasure listening to bass artists now (Bromberg, Clarke, Pastorius, Miller, Wilkenfeld, etc.). Movies are a new experience (e.g., Iron Man, U-571, War of the Worlds). Chris Chris, Several problems with your post; The orriginal poster was more interested in a musical Sub then low frequencies, My HGS-18IIs play to 15Hz, the DD-18 plats to 13Hz. My recomendation was for pure musical sub that sounds the best with the speaker, as we all know that specs are not the entire picture. As stated, a Bass boost may be obtained by corner placement, but prohibitive with Jub and K-Horn, but a Bass boost can also be achieved by stacking subs, or placing the directly next to each other as seperate location sub placement can have a cancelling effect. Even so, unless we are talking a huge room, the SPL of the subs at this level it really isn't going to make much difference, and with one 18 directly above the other on the 684, you get that reinforcement effect. The Spud is going to need almost 16 watts to put out the same dB as the 684 does at one watt with the afore mentioned sensitivity rating, or a pair of Spuds will be up to 97dB, with a watt through each one (less output then a Quartet at 1 watt) Distortion levels of two Danleys vs: 884, I recomended the 684, not the 884, and if you follow Paul Klipschs statement that distortion is inversley related to efficiency, what does that do to your theory, plus possible cancellation and other possible problems, when we have determined thatwith the Jub or K-Horn, that wont be an option anyhow unless you plan on using the rear corners. Once again, with your final statement, the recomendations are for a system used most always for MUSIC, not movies. Movies have alot of material below 19Hz or audible frequencies that you feel. You can add to your movie experience with felt guteral frequencies that you can't even hear if that is a requirenment / mainly movie viewing, then there are alot more choices out there better then anything in this thread. 19Hz is not required for music unless you like Rap, Syntesized music, or compition test tone CDs. Roger I was going to say, man, I guess 3/4 of my pipe organ collection is not music then, as 60% of the organs out there have 32ft stops which have a 16hz Low C note on them. But anyway I agree with you Roger on the quality of bass as most people have never experienced extremely tight, accurate bass. Most all of the subwoofers out there are not "tight" at all. Just like the JL subwoofers for car stereo when they use to advertise their W7 woofers as "tight". 4 of us went to a IASCA event one year when they first came out with them and all of us got out of JL's demo car and asked each other, " Was that boomy, or what?" Another brand right across from them, was the epitomy of "tight bass". The old saying, ..." Contentment is destroyed by comparison" You think that the VW is the worlds greatest car in the village, until the guy in the Rolls Royce shows up.[] But my question is: has anyone done a side by side comparison of the Danley and Klipsch for quality of bass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 But my question is: has anyone done a side by side comparison of the Danley and Klipsch for quality of bass?I've not heard the 684, but I have heard the KPT-415-LF - and it was fairly impressive (large box), but the bass was not "tight" (IMHO). It still sounded like a direct radiator woofer system. The SPUDs sound like my Jub bass bins, only deeper (about an octave)--they are very tight. In fact, I don't notice them until I've overdone the gain and notice that the overall timbre of the music is deep-bass heavy. KPT-415-LF Frequency Response (1) 43Hz-750Hz ± 3dB 26Hz-900Hz -10dB Power Handling (2) 800 watts (58V) per woofer pair 40Hz-800Hz Calc. Max. Cont. Output (3) 133dB Sensitivity (4) 107dB Coverage Horizontal 90° ± 30° 200Hz-1kHz Vertical 60° ± 30° 300Hz-3kHz DI 8dB ± 2dB 200Hz-600Hz Q 6.3 Nominal Impedance 8 ohms (4 min. @ 150Hz) per woofer pair Transducers Top and bottom woofer in parallel and middle pair in parallel Four K-45-EP 15" woofers Input Connectors Barrier Strip Height 49.375" (125.4cm) Width 35.75" (90.8cm) Depth 22.4" (57cm) Weight 200 lbs. (91kg) 1. 3M, Half-space anechoic 2. AES Standard, continuous pink noise 40Hz-10kHz, 6dB peaks3. Calculated at 1M half-space at power handling power input4. SPL at 1M, half-space anechoic with 2.83V input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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