Shock-Late Posted March 1, 2001 Share Posted March 1, 2001 I still have my MF 2 x 35W solid-state amp, but I'm looking around for a cheap-but-good little valve amp. And I saw something interesting, it's a pair of Akai monoblocs (don't shake your heads, those come from the years when Akai was a good brand), they're for studio-use, 8W RMS each, everything has been checked, they look FAB (see the pict) and they're within my budget BUT will I have enough clout to drive my Scalas with rock music at loud levels with only 8 watts/channel?? It seems to be quite a bit too low... My room is 4m x 7,5m (can't translate it into feet sorry). Here's the pict: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joemcten Posted March 1, 2001 Share Posted March 1, 2001 I have a room that is slightly wider and longer than yours and I too have LaScala's. I recently demoed several antique sound lab products and one of them was an 8wpc 300B set amp. It had plenty of drive and what seemed like adequate headroom to me. I tend to listen at fairly loud playback levels. I also frequently use my modified Dyna st-70 that is 11-12wpc and have never had any complaints volume wise Can you try before you buy? Are they tube or solid state. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted March 1, 2001 Author Share Posted March 1, 2001 They're tube of course. I wouldn't buy a 2 x 8W solid-state amp They're beautiful aren't they? Frans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joemcten Posted March 1, 2001 Share Posted March 1, 2001 Frans, they are beautiful. What output tube do they use? What vintage are they? I love to have unique gear and as long as the tubes are easy to find, I would dive right in. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEvan Posted March 2, 2001 Share Posted March 2, 2001 How cheap? If they're cheap, just get 'em. I LOVE the way they look! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEvan Posted March 3, 2001 Share Posted March 3, 2001 mdeneen, once when I was between amps I borrowed my friend's Sansui AU919 (I think) I believe it was 80w/ch, maybe quite a bit more. I could pop the protection circuit everytime I showed off. By contrast my NEC A11 (a really great amp!)(70w/ch)never hiccuped,never shut down, and played much louder. I have played various tube amps at full volume on demanding material and have never popped a fuse, burnt a tube, nothing. The list includes Marantz 8b, Mcintosh 225, Fisher KX202, Jolida 302b. They all play incredibly loud. Through Khorns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted March 3, 2001 Author Share Posted March 3, 2001 Thanks for all your answers, guys! If my memory's good these amps are from mid-sixties...I should check anyway. I really don't think they're bad! One annoying thing is: only one line-level input on each bloc, plus the fact that you have to use two volume knobs. (yep, these babies are INTEGRATED monoblocs). I'm not sure i'll buy them, I love the way they look (ooooh yes I do!) but they're 250$ so it's quite expensive if it's only for the looks. I believe they're pretty good but I found there are more powerful amps available in my price range...less "unique" and most of them are really ugly. Mdeneen, i generally listen quite "quiet" but that's true sometimes I like to crank it up! and i hate when the amps get short while i do that... Regards, Frans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted March 3, 2001 Share Posted March 3, 2001 I have a pair of 8 watt amps with my Khorns. I was worried at first about them being able to feed my hunger for volume. Particularly the bass heavy stuff that just screams to be blasted. Turns out, not a problem. The 8 watt tube amps sounded just a bit LOUDER than my 35 watt SS amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEvan Posted March 3, 2001 Share Posted March 3, 2001 Are you SURE they're integrated?? The one input in addition to the preamp input may be an auxillary input for another preamp or a direct input that bypasses the level control. Input level controls on power amps are not uncommon. McIntosh has always had them. An integrated with one input seems unlikely. Unless they were purpose-built for a specific studio application or similar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted March 4, 2001 Author Share Posted March 4, 2001 Well...huh...from time to time I listen to techno at 130 dB but the more I grow "old"(! I'm 22) the more i listen to "quieter" music. My favourite band for the moment is Coldplay. I'm currently thinking about buying a french tube amp (Lafayette) from the sixties. It's rated at 2 x 12W (EL34) and I would maybe have a good deal on it (swap with my MF solid-state amp, wich is like new...). But anyway i wanna TRY tubes first! never heard what a tube amp sounds like!! at least on REAL speakers ( I mean no shoeboxes). Regards, frans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 Try to audition the excellent LEAK stereo 20.It sound wonderful and it is cheap.It also can be used with a passive preamp(input sensitivity 0.125V)which is highly recommended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted March 6, 2001 Author Share Posted March 6, 2001 Well, mdeneen, the guy on the phone told me EL34 but maybe he was wrong. Don't know, and don't care, as long as it sounds good! Guy, yep I heard a lot of good things about the LEAK strereo 20, and there's one for sale on www.ibazar.fr it seems to be a very nice little amp. What about the leak preamp from the same year? I have to buy it too if i go for the leak, the guy doesn't want to sell only the amp. Thanks, Frans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted March 6, 2001 Share Posted March 6, 2001 The preamp is nice looking but does'nt sound as nice.Its value is about 50 to 80$,you can use the case to build your own passive preamp. The stereo 20/passive preamp combo, blows away many expensive setups that I've listened to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill rawls Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 I have K-korns and Belles. I have tube and solid state amps. I listen to loud music. Tubes will not do. You need a high quality - late model solid state amp with at least 50, preferably 100 wpc. I know this makes a lot of people angry, but it is true. Check out this web site and see why tubes are not a good choice. http://www.belgaudio.com/kcmap.htm If you borrow amps and listen you will see, I mean hear what I am saying. Regards, Bill Rawls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 bill rawls - I would disagree. I have a pair of Laurel 300B 8 watt SET amps driving my Khorns. I used to have a NAD SS amp, powerful enough so that I could never use more than about a 30 degree arc of the volume knob. I don't miss the SS a bit. In fact, I will never go back to SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 mdeneen, can you give me an example of a vintage amp that uses the EL84 tube? sounds very interesting when you say "sweet, sweet"...thanks, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill rawls Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 And then there are those that prefer champagne. I'm sorry if you guys prefer tubes, but the fact is that a tube amplifier has an acoustic output that tracks the speaker impedance curve - due to the low dampning factors. This is a measureable fact of life. The bad reputation solid state got was in the 60's,70's and 80's. Even sone of the power I.C.'s being used now are better amplifiers than most tubbe amps. The Mcintosh unity gain tube amps and the Quads that use unity gain (i.e. chathode feedback from transformer windings), to the output tubes handle the complex speaker loads better than the tubes stages that do not. Tube amps color the sound and this is a measureable fact. I am of the school of thought that a system should reproduce the source as closely as possible and high quality (i.e. high slew rate, low T.I.M.)solid state amps do this. It gets down to wether you prefer accurate reproduction, or a particular amplifier signature. I knew this would heat up the board, but I go with what can be measured and doccumented. Love America and Different Opinions, Bill Rawls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discorules Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 This is a great thread so I hope this keeps going. I'll toss in my grenade here. I know SS measures superior to tubes but my ears tell me tubes are closer to real. There are some fine SS amps out there that come close and because I like a little reliability in my electronics, I'll stick to SS. By the way, I'm partial to H/K amplifiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 mdeneen, I think Bill is referring to power output fluctuations from tube amps due to variations in speaker impedance, coupled with low output impedance for tubes. This means that tubes can't drive the low impedance loads of some frequencies as well as SS. This topic can quickly become a religious war. There are those who believe in measurements, and are willing to ignore what can not be measured, and there are those who don't believe in measurements. Bill is a measurement guy, you can tell from his posts. I used to be a measurement guy, obsessing about .002%THD v. .001%THD. Obviously, the .001% measurement is better. But, does that mean the amp is better? Now this will sound sacreligious (in this most holy of wars) but the person whom I believe tipped the scales for me from measurements only to listening test only was...(dum dum DUM) Julian Hirsch, of old Stereo Review fame. Old Mr. measure 'em and write 'em up JH. I followed him like a God, way back when. Then, slowly, very slowly, a tiny sliver of cognative dissonance came into my brain from none other than JH. He said, and my fuzzy memory paraphrases now "It is just possible that the human ear can't hear the difference between 1% THD and 10% THD." In other words, the measurements that he was painstakingly making were irrelevant, something like the drunk that was looking for his keys under the streetlight even though he lost them elsewhere. Or judging a light bulb on it's weight because photo voltaic meters didn't exist yet. Let people believe what they are going to believe. Obsess about what they are going to obsess about. He who is without sin cast the first stone, all that. Now settle down and go listen to some music! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill rawls Posted March 8, 2001 Share Posted March 8, 2001 My main problem with tube amps (and remember I have sunk some funds into them too, MC225, MKIII's, gone through the capacitor and power supply tweaks etc.), is the bottom end. They tend to track the impedance curve in acoustic output. I think a MOR position would be bi, or tri amping. The MC225 has a sweet midrange and fair upper end. I do not dislike tube amps, just recognize them for what they are. Distortion factors can be deceiving, if it is below .1% I am happy. Extremely low distortion factors seem to go hand in hand with large (greater than 20db) amounts of feedback which have their own problems. The speakers always have the dominant distortion numbers in the reproduction chain. I like to play Tina Turner "What's Love Got to Do with it" and feel the drums and bass attack. I sit about 2 meters from my belles, I prefer them to my K-Horns (go figure), and like the peaks to hit around 113 to 115 db, this requires at least 40 to 50 watts (116db would require 60 watts). The fretless bass on some of Morphine's recordings is also nice. It is also a good peak range for the 1812 overture, lots of dynamics here. Once again these are just my views and I would not attempt to impose them on anyone else, but people new to good audio should not be too impressed with 300B's etc. and spend a fortune on something that will always leave them wondering why the speakers don't sound like a live performance. Thank you guys for the wonderful opinions, I just thought things were getting a little dull, and wanted to wake up the intellect I felt was present here for the benefit of non-technical readers. They need to know that if they hook up their inexpensive RCA RV-9910, They will still get great sound from the Heritage line. The RCA RV-9910 by the way uses a very good output chip (National LM2876, configured at 20 watts on the front speakers. This is a very inexpensive amplifier with surprising sonic ability in the Heritage. I have ordered samples of the LM3886 from National Semiconductor and am in the process of designing a tri-amp for the Belles that will by-pass the stock crossovers. I will let you guys know in about a month how it sounds. Any technical people out there please check out this chip and if you have comments or suggestions, please let me know. The only way we grow is to know. Long live high efficiency speakers, Bill Rawls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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