boomer9911 Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 Will my Klipsch belt buckle be the size of a Texas cookie sheet???!!!!!!!!! I'd hate to see you over your cable bill! I have owned Klipsch for almost 10 years, no problems! Still waiting 2 yrs for my Dealer Klipsch banner...... and waiting...........and waiting.............anddddd.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 Keith, someone from Denon posts on this forum. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=50c3d8574a50f0eeba6c9d4a1b560f68&forumid=18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 Thanks for the link.Now.... if I could just remember those questions I wanted to ask! Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobG Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 crash827, it is an easy question to answer. Klipsch takes this position to be a good business partner to our dealers. Say what you will about any single dealer or dealer experience you have had, but Klipsch has an incredible network of about 1000 US storefronts, hundreds in Canada and others in about 60 countries around the globe. Do you think we should undermine the lot of them by facilitating internet sales? That would be unwise. We understand and respect your desire to buy at the lowest possible price. You have to understand and respect our need, and our dealers' need to make a profit. If we lose dealers because of unauthorized availability, it may benefit a few people in the short run, but it hurts all who want to manufacture, sell or own Klipsch in the long run. It's all about balance. dougdrake, you are on the money in your understanding of the warranty coverage. It goes only to the original purchaser from an authorized Klipsch dealer. If that dealer sells it to another party and that intermediate party sells it to you, it's the intermediate party that has warranty, not you. This is also true of product purchased by you from our dealer and then transferred to another individual. Your kid, your Ebay customer etc. Our warranty is not transferrable. talktokeith makes some short but very reasonable comments in this thread. Other than a cheap price, there is no big motivation to buying from some entity you've never seen, far away, without a store, who changes names a few times a year to run from unhappy customers, and can't give you advice or assistance when you need it. It's all about the lowest price. Short term thinking and not the approach that builds an industry or a market. You need to buy one time or so, but we need to have growing business for decades. Perhaps this will help you understand why we approach the matter in the way we do. That's about all I'll have to say on this one. Though you may prefer to debate for a while, I'm out. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decibel man Posted March 16, 2002 Share Posted March 16, 2002 The bottom line is that dealers have hundreds of choices to choose from in the speaker market. If a product is available cheaply on the Internet these dealers will not carry it unless they can make the same profit and be competitive. The problem is Klipsch has just recently come up with this Internet policy(12 to 18 months?). Therefore; in medium to small markets, (or in those markets where Klipsch sales personnel have done a crappy job) there are hardly any dealers left. When I asked my local shop why they didn't have Klipsch the owner said: "They have choosen to allow alternative distribution to exist with regular distribution and we do not need to support a vendor that does this". In other words he basically said; "if we can't sell it at or near list then we don't want it". It is absolutely poor market management by Klipsch. The major high-end chain in our metro area stopped carrying Klipsch all together. There is one dealer left in the Cleveland area and that store is out in the eastern suburbs near BFE. I almost forgot, there is a dealer in Canton, last time I visited (1 hour from Cleveland) they had a whopping 4 different Klipsch products. I was given the old "what do mean they are expanding the reference line?" The good thing is that they are listed as a Klipsch authorized dealer. Klipsch is a market leader, maybe in irresponsible marketing? Yes, I know, their sales numbers are excellant. Why not use a manufacturer rebate program? If you purchase a pair of speakers directly from an authorized dealer you send in a copy of the receipt and the rebate form. That way if it isn't from an authorized dealer you can't get the rebate. You up the prices of the speakers and that way it will be about the same price from an unauthorized dealer as it would be from an authorized dealer. You can then prove to your dealers that you are actually working to solve your problems (an believe me these are problems) and you might regain some integrity. I would love nothing more than to say to a dealer. I am going to see what you competition has to offer in the Klipsch line. You can advertise in all the magazines you want, but until you have some market wide integrity it is going to be an uphill battle. Klipsch is going to have to decide whether to go the way of Acoustic Research, with extensive internet sales, or the way of B&W, with almost zero web exposure. Make up your darn minds and do it right so we don't have to suffer for your current or past mistakes! Sorry about the rant, this just pisses me off beyond belief. This is in no way a personal critizism of any of the moderators or customer service staff, which have all been excellant. JT BTW, I speak from some personal experience relating to maket responsibility. I have been in manufacturer sales for 11 years. Not electronic related though. ------------------ Enjoy and Happy Listening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decibel man Posted March 16, 2002 Share Posted March 16, 2002 I wanted to also say that I am kind of relieved in the fact that I have decided to postpone the upgrading of my system. I was about to move up to the Rx-7 line, but we decided to buy a house 7 doors down. The new house has 3100+ sqft and a 15-coarse full basement that is crying for a HT room. The new house is only a couple of years old as compared to our 24 year-old 2100+ sqft current home. I am glad I won't have to go through this dealer issue for a couple of years. I might even go the better route, used KHorns and matching heritage products. Right now I feel more comfortable dealing with ebay than the local so-called "authorized dealers". JT ------------------ Enjoy and Happy Listening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted March 16, 2002 Share Posted March 16, 2002 "Klipsch is going to have to decide whether to go the way of Acoustic Research, with extensive internet sales, or the way of B&W, with almost zero web exposure." Not to argue the point,but it appears Klipsch has already made up their mind.If you want a warranty backed by Klipsch,you'll buy from an authorized dealer.It's just that simple. I'm sure that any reasonable person could understand that to control your own destiny,you must have control of your product. Hope everyone has a nice weekend. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted March 16, 2002 Share Posted March 16, 2002 keith, i thought i saw phil mention on that other thread (i think the online dealers under general) that klipsch now will directly support the warranty from any online sales as long as the serial # checks out. just an fyi. & kindo a grey area in policy i guess. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble maker Posted March 16, 2002 Share Posted March 16, 2002 Even when you purchase from an Authorized dealer watch out. I bought an out of box "demo" speaker as part of a $1800 Klipsch speaker upgrade. The speaker was missing its feet. A call to ??Parts??? yielded a price of $8 per item ie, screw, rubber bumper, or foot. Nearly $100 to stabilize the speaker. When I gasped & protested the obvious RIP OFF, she stated that was the way it was(she did not agree with the pricing structure but take it or return to my dealer). Even Bose does not go to this extreme. In fact they even would give me credit of 50% off on a new speaker system because they were having troubles supplying a tweeter. I don't mind paying a "reasonable" price for the mising items, but to be stuck as it seems for trying to obtain 'service'. In fact it took several tries to get through, always Voice mail, then waiting by the phone for a response(Bose at least answers the phone with people). Right now I am heading to the Dealer with the intent of returning the system, and going with a system that may not be as good(subjective, may even spend more money for a better system), but at least I know that if I need parts, I won't be spending 1/4 the price of a RF3 for trivial part(I wonder want they would want for a driver). The Dealer is not going to be pleased!! The system included 2 RF3's, an RC3II, and 2 RB3's. This message has been edited by Trouble maker on 03-16-2002 at 01:48 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted March 16, 2002 Share Posted March 16, 2002 Ha! Thanks for the update boa.I guess one would need to get the serial numbers of the unauthorized speakers they were buying and check with Klipsch first to make sure they were getting Klipsch warranty? Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 I agree 100% with BobG on the warranty issue and dealers.Most online places dump stock at next to cost prices and destroy local audio stores who have to compete with the ZERO service and faceless online giants. I never purchased anything serious from any online place and never will.The online places make $0 on me each year.I feel good when they belly up And Klipsch should never allow mass market superstores to carry any quality Klipsch products like the R line and the heritage line.This gives bad image to Klipsch Let the mass market dump stores sell dump,if you let the mass market stores sell high grade Klipsch or other products they begin to bastardise the product and dump it.Do not allow them this travesty TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 Ear, Right on! I trade off between haggling for a few percent and paying retail at shops I like. As noted before, Almas HIFI in Michigan is really sharp for Klipsch demos. I would love to work there when I retire from selling plastics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 the real world is a sucker for manipulation. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 I think Klipsch customer service is tops. Here's my experience: A couple of years ago a local Nobody Beats the Wiz, an authorized Klipsch dealer, was going out of business. Towards the end of that event I found the various elements of a Klipsch THX Home Theater System that had been a store demo for sale very cheap. The reason was that the LCRs were all banged and scratched with punched out speakers, same with the surrounds - one speaker was actually missing, the KSW12II sub had a blown amp. The store had signs that all warranties were in effect. I knew Klipsch's reputation from the time I was a teenager in the 50s and 60s. All I had was the NBT Wiz sales slips stamped full - manufacturers warranty - no boxes, no manuals, no warrranty cards. I phoned Klipsch - they sent prepaid shipping labels and fixed or replaced everything at no cost. All I had to do was fill the dings and scratches and repaint the units black. I ended up with a fully functioning THX system at less than a quarter of it's original cost. I found this board which rekindled my interest in this hobby and I'm still going strong buying new (subs, surrounds) and old used Klipsch Heritage products. I think they offer excellent products and value at every price point and back up their products with outstanding customer service. I just wish their dealers would display and demo their products to their full advantage. Of course, the more profitable a speaker line is to a dealer the more likely they are to treat it favorably. I wouldn't mind seeing klipsch have their own stores. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems This message has been edited by soundog on 03-17-2002 at 06:28 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 Unbelievable! I won't discuss Klipsch because much of this transcends them, but some of you simply amaze me: I won't buy online because the price is too low?! Excuse me, Sir, I insist on paying full retail?! Oh, please, put as much markup on that as you can?! No, really, I want to pay premiums for poor business decisions?! Honestly, gouge me so you can pay for these ridiculous $ per sq. ft. prices?! I can buy a Porsche online. I can buy a Ferrari online. Anyone who thinks they must walk into a boutique to get service is naive. Anyone who feels purchasing on the net somehow lowers themselves to being part of the masses simply has issues. In general, companies who are not selling on the net haven't developed a mature global mindset, don't know how to make the transition from traditional distribution models, or are lacking in their planning and/or strategic direction. Consumers who would pay higher prices to reward poor business models/decisions lend support to the old adage "There is a sucker born every minute." Clearly some (like those who pay $10K extra for a car when it is first released and available in low quantities) are willing to be stupid fiscally to achieve some false sense of exclusivity. Sorry for the rant. Pardon my sarcasm. Not directed at anyone particular and certainly not an indictment of Klipsch. Just my opinion. ------------------ Fronts - KG4's Center - C6 Surrounds - S6's Sub - KSW200 Powered by - YAM995 This message has been edited by crash827 on 03-17-2002 at 12:11 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 Couldn't help but chime in here (why should I not have some fun as well). Klipsch clearly states their business policy and is well within their legal responsibilities. If you think that it is vital that they change, I suggest sincere conversations with a business case for the change - that will probably have the best influence. I am here because I prefer the sound of Klipsch Heritage line - I understand Klipsch policies and I understand my risks in alternative purchasing selections. I choose Klipsch because of the sound and will take all reasonable steps in building my systems while understanding their clearly stated policies. I am not required to agree with the policies. I strongly disagree with EBay's heavily seller focused policies, but that does not keep me away from Ebay. I choose to focus on knowing the rules and understanding any risks I am taking. I think the same may well apply to Klipsch. After all, we mostly care about the sound..... ------------------ Hwatkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 You are, of course, correct. I am aware of Klipsches policies and am free to make my decisions as I see fit. I don't purchase Klipsch for prestige. I don't purchase Klipsch because of exclusivity. I don't purchase Klipsch because 'high-end audio video retailers' sell them. I purchase them because I enjoy their sound and believe they are the best for the price - that said, paying for needless 'overhead' doesn't profit Klipsch, nor their dealers, nor myself. I could care less if the dealer spent $100K for custom interior decorating treatments nor am I interested in paying them back for it; an expresso machine does not justify paying $400/pair more for speakers. Five years from now, I doubt Klipsch or their competitors will still be entertaining this same old distribution method. The Net is here baby and renders archaic distribution methods largely obsolete; look at the success of Outlaw and others. BTW. How does this fit into the equation? I can purchase a certain DLP projector directly from Japan for $5800 to my door. The exact same projector would cost me $12K to buy from a 'high-end AV retailer here in the States.' How many want to sign up to pay $6200 more for the same product? ------------------ Fronts - KG4's Center - C6 Surrounds - S6's Sub - KSW200 Powered by - YAM995 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dearlv Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 A lot of people don't seem to understand that if there is no profit, there is no product. Build the speakers yourselves. If Klipsch only sold through the internet at 10 point margins, we'd all be saying goodbye to klipsch within a year. Think of it this way- what if Klipsch speakers came with a one day warranty. You could buyonline with that one day warranty, or you could buy at a dealer and pay extra for a five year warranty (which Klipsch comes with now). Either way you are paying for the warranty that everyone is bitching Klipsch won't provide if you purchase from an unauthorized dealer. Everyone wants to buy at dealer costs and whines when the manufacturers don't stab their loyal dealers in the back. Things are the way they are for good reason, whether you like it or not. YOU make your buying decision. Klipsch rulez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 I don't recall anyone stating Klipsch should sell their speakers at no profit. Klipsch doesn't 'make' what the dealers sold their speakers for; they collected their profit when they sold them to the dealer. Selling on the internet simply removes the overhead associated with bricks and mortar. There is NO profit in overhead. Depending on the model used it could also remove the middleman. The model exists for Klipsch or any manufacturer to have a vast dealer network and also have internet sales directly from the manufacturer; Klipsch simply doesn't leverage it. Selling on the internet has nothing to do with, nor should it have any affect on, manufacturers warrantees. That is simply a corporate policy and their perogative. Things are the way they are for good reason, whether you like it or not. A sentiment echoed throughout all of history and met with change at ever utterance. 'Things are the way they are' because an alternative solution has not been discovered or implemented. ------------------ Fronts - KG4's Center - C6 Surrounds - S6's Sub - KSW200 Powered by - YAM995 This message has been edited by crash827 on 03-17-2002 at 02:17 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 It appears that your lifespan does not delve very far into history itself crash...Excuse me while I go talk to a brick wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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