Klipsch at Wal-Mart

[cc1091]

and while I'm at it:

Audio King (aka Ultimate Audio) is not a lot different from a Best Buy. In fact, these stores fit the early Best Buy model to a tee (you remember, before best buy was selling appliances and had a larger stereo department than computer department).

Hell, why not buy from an internet retailer?

[forresthump]

Good point CC109. I really find this all ironic that the blue collar working men who seem to be a big market

for Value speakers like klipsch wouldn't buy them from a Value retailer like W-Mart.

seems they want their cake in high Prestige and eat it too as in high Value - low cost. HA

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go forth & hump the world

[TheEAR]

"EarMite mine is a defense of American Capitalism and Finance. A topic Canadians have no part In. Go back to having Sex in your Moose commune. LOL"

Sure ForrestGump,sure

Your $3/hour minimum wage is pathetic.3$/hour,where can you live with this bum income,even $6/hour is a joke.No wonder you can only buy inexpensive audio and during garage sales!LOL

I am not surprised you live in a van down by the river.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

[Audio Flynn]

"T",

So our politicians are going vote for good socialist stuff for us?

Remember for Socialism to work you need socialist elitists(like moma Clinton) to create systems to herd us ignorant constituents into what is good for us.

The elitists in the house and senate have already withdrawn themselves from the socialist social security system(which I have never planned to collect from); that(SS) is not the proper reward for their intelligent leadership of the ignorant masses. They have a pension plan I would saw off my left arm for, that us serfs do not and most likely will never qualify for.

"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness" in the Declaration of Independence was not a garuntee of a socialist free lunch in regard to any need.

A valuable service whether it be local or national defense, roads, health care or retirement must be earned through providing value.

Russia, UK, France, and Canadian economies suffer by trying to provide to many services to citizens that provide no value to the equation.

Unfortunately the goodwill of benevolent intentions never balance out flawed financial models.

[Seb]

I just wanted to say that there is a big difference between defence and medical insurance: medical insurance is provided on an individual basis, i.e. you get sick, you get treated, while the defence department is in charge of the whole country, It's like collective insurance, the army defends us all collectively, while medicare defends us individually.

this example is a heck of a stretch and it doesn't hold IMO medeneen.

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[Olaf]

quote:

---

Originally posted by forresthump:

So Minteen which would you rather have a person unemployed at $4 hour or one employed at $3 hour?

Never mind I know your answer. LOL

If you understood anything about the supply and demand for labor & wages as in thats the price companies large and small pay, how that creates an efficient market and

your big Gov policies only screw it up, then i'd listen.

If The min wage was $$15 hour when you went to get your first job you probably wouldnt have worked til you were

30.

---

A lower minimum wage creates more socialism.

Who do think will make up the difference? It will the taxpayers via the EITC( a social program and big government policy)which is nothing more than corporate welfare. Those folks need help with their incomes but I do not like subsidizing a 200 billion dollar a year corporation like Wal-Fart. That's nonsense!!!

Why should someone barely scraping with a low paying job(but doesn't qualify for the EITC) subsidize big corporate America?

[TBrennan]

Olaf---A most excellent point, most excellent indeed! But few "taxpayers" realize that they are subsidizing businesses that pay low wages or even want to think about it.

[TBrennan]

mdeneen---I'm reading McCoullugh's excellent book on Truman and was struck by one of his statements, that an economist was a fella with a Phi Beta Kappa key on one end of his watchchain and no watch on the other. :-) Reading about Truman I'm impressed by how Left-Wing he was; calling for National health insurance in the late 1940s, vetoing Taft-Hartley, desegregating the Military and Civil Service and scourging Wall Street and the rich and powerful monied interests. A true Democrat, the kind of guy my Party needs now, not like these no-balls psuedo-Republicans like Clinton and Gore. Clinton was just a Republican who believed in abortion and gun control, both trivial issues compared to how the pie is cut-up.

[forresthump]

Olaf why do you assume that somewhat that somebody starting at a low wage cant excel and earn a higher wage? Key word is Earn. Anything else is a Handout that the Libs so adore.

I believe that the constitution and declaration were primarily for individuals rights and liberties. And a Gov to protect people from other people and the natural elements. I dont believe the Gov is nor was meant to protect people from themselves. That comes from personal responsibility that goes along with the personal rights and freedoms we enjoy.

Libs to me seem to support that people are Not responsible for themselves the Gov is. It takes a village. F-no. It takes a family and yourself to raise yourself.

Capitalism is the natural outcome of a democracy. Because Business and individuals are free to choose whom they employ and whom they work for. Dont forget that no business has a monopoly. If they do that's where the government steps in to help the individual.

And Don't forget stockholders and small business owners

have rights too. Employers are not a part of the Gov. They are a seperate entity just like consumers.

Socialism has no place in the US Economy. It belongs

with a socialistic GOV. I think youll find the Libs on

this are in unions or are simply caught up in the jealousy and class warfare that so called Democrats like to pursue. The only reason the Dems come after the poor is because they're the majority. Most all Dem

politicians are rich lawyers. Many more lawyers than the GOP. Maybe that why theyre the party for the Lawyer. The party for Big Litigation. (SOund famililiar with Gore's fiasco in Florida). LOL

Minteen, If you understood economics you'd know it is the science of money and wealth. It is a social study.

Business is the real world. Operations. How things really happen in action.

Minteen is a true Lib spinmaster. Remember the purpose of GOV in a democracy and capitalistic economy? Protect people from others. AS in what they cant do to protect themselves. What hogwash to compare national defense with the healthcare system. Need i say more?

Ok, people and the private sector can more than take care of their health themselves. Sure some Gov oversight is needed. BUT NOT GOV control meaning higher expense to all We taxpayers.

Defense is THE primary function and purpose for the Gov. Economies of scale, control and command for the Gov. Everything else the Gov does could really be privitized or overseen by industry boards. Look at the postal service. What a joke. Fed-Ex, UPS & others Eat their lunch.

And a nice spin on Pretty Boy Willie too. LOL Clinton was moderate NOT by choice, but by necessity.

Just ask Dick Morris as Slick just did everything he said due to pure politics. When Slick was more free to do as he wanted he just put in the biggest tax Increase in History, that's all. LOL

Enter 1994, the taxpayer revolt, Newt and the boys and the contract with America. Clinton had no political choice but to be more moderate. He made a deal that he wouldn't go for spending increases if the GOP House wouldn't push for tax cuts. Hence the surplus only because we had a GOP controlled House.

Slick's only accomplishment was the family leave act. LOL Boy that was monumental. He was nothing but

a pure politician and a sleazebag as a person at that.

I think the only reason Lib males would like him is that he was such a master marketing politicio. Or they

want to be more like him. Arghhh.

OK you want politics on the Klipsch forum Liberal dirtbags then let's get it ON!

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go forth & hump the world

[TBrennan]

Forrest---The Declaration of Independence is not law, The Constitution is. The purpose of government is whatever a majority of citizens say it is, within the bounds of The Constitution, which The Citizenry is free to ammend as they choose. These are facts. Your political theorizing is just that, theory, not fact. Your arguements would be taken more seriously if you cut-out the invective and name-calling, I was taking you seriously until the end of your post where you just couldn't resist childish name calling.

[forresthump]

TB, Point well taken. Just trying to go with the spriit of the thread and have some fun. Hope nobody takes this so seriosly they hurt themselves or something. But that's their individual right to do.

What I'm really trying to display was how stupid it is to get up and start pushing ones politics on an Audio BBS. This thread started with nothing to do with

WalMArt as an employer, stock, good or bad community citizen or anything of such. It was about IMAGE. You know like slick Willy manipulated so well.

It was about Value and Prestige to We the Consumer. Not all this other crap you guys started.

And I never said the declaration is law. You're right the constitution is. And it's a natural result of the declaration. When you read the constitution you see that's it's also about individual rights. As in the bill of rights.

You'll have trouble getting your Lib/Socialistic laws passed when these same rights apply to "DA MAN", companies and stockholders. Dream on but remember this

board represents both sides so it's a circular argument. In other words a waist of time.

How about that W though? Sure is a popular guy.

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go forth & hump the world

[forresthump]

Mike, I think you missed one of my pet peeves about Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart gained its

strength by creating stores in small town America with which local mom & pop

businesses could not compete pricewise. Thus, much of the small town business

infrastructure went away... just as you have described.

The ugliest part comes when Wal-Mart execs decide to close a store down because it

doesn't yield enough profit... then the community has no Wal-Mart... and it no longer

has a local infrastructure to replace it. I have seen more than one town across

America hobbled by the empty building that was Wal-Mart.

I don't think I will chose Wal-Mart as the place to buy my next new Klipsch product.

They may continue to wave our flag, presume to protect our morality and increasingly

bring more foreign goods at the expense of American jobs... but not on my nickel. As a

veteran, I served notice by putting my life on the line when I believed America was in

danger from "Kremlin Guided Communism." Should I be less willing to put my savings on

the line to fight "Wal-Mart Guided Consumerism" as a danger to America? -HornEd

I Went back and looked and it was none other than HornEd who turned the tide with this comment. Ed you better watch it. Wouldnt want to be labeled another Left Coast Lib. Or are you rich enough to now be a DEM. LOL Anyway before this it was all about Image, Value and Censorship. Truely not political or socialistic (After all tipper is a censorist .

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go forth & hump the world

[kenratboy]

Lets vote:

Should ForrestThump and TheEar have a death match?

I vote yes, I "think" there is a little tension there.

The moose f^cking joke IS getting a little old.

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Receiver: Sony STR-DE675

CD player: Sony CDP-CX300

Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U

Speakers: JBL HLS-610

Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8

Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt

Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs

Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo!

[forresthump]

Ok then make it a Beaver rodent boy. whatever you want. you started this thread though I see it wasnt your intent to start a political or socioeconomic debate.

Again Minteen, the big difference is cancer is a natural element. War is not. War does not have to be a given, hence we pool our money together for a deterent and a solution in the event of acts such as 9/11. IOW health is an individual matter. War threatens the whole of us and our society and structure or GOV.

But what about prevention and research??? Give companies incentives to do the research like patent protections, profits, tax incentives. Instead the liberals want to take those away. How much sense does that make? Gov has proven itself as the poorest business manager possible but that's exactly what you want. Let capitalism thrive and it makes the pie bigger for everybody.

The poorest sap on the street still enjoys a much better standard of living than middle class in most developing countries. I'm not saying don't give them an incentive to work, like a minimum wage. Remember they choose that life, not us.

And I Don't mail any bills anymore. I do them on the Net. So I guess we can say the Postal Service is inhibiting the growth of technology. It win't suprise me when they start taxing Emails. Natural thing for a Gov supported entity to do. LOL

Again how about that W. Sure is popular. After the Florida fiasco you Libs sure wanted him to fall on his face now didn't you. HAHAHAHA

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go forth & hump the world

[mike stehr]

Would Tube amps sound good with Klipsch Speakers?

[Big Bean]

Welcome back mike.

Maybe you can get some Chinese made KT-88s at Crap*Mart.

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eat your vegetables

This message has been edited by Big Bean on 03-21-2002 at 03:52 AM

[HornEd]

Foresthump, you seemed to have picked up the bombastic brush of Sen. Joe McCarthy... and like the late senator, much of the good you would have us see is lost. To reprint those three paragraphs of mine and paint them as liberal rhetoric does your cause a disservice.

Even old Joe McCarthy would not have thought my going to war to fight Communism would make me suspect of being a demonized liberal. To point out a cancer within capitalism (which I consider the Wal-Mart concept to be) by use of personal restraint as a consumer is hardly a call for the imposition of socialistic governmental controls.

I tried to point out, unsuccessfully perhaps, that the corporate culture of Wal-Mart erodes the very free enterprise that you seem to cherish. What happens when one giant store takes over the mainstream retail business of small town... and then, after obliteration of all its local competition... quits the town in search of profits elsewhere? Sure, in our democracy, Sam Walton's heirs have the right to succeed... local competition has the right to fail... and, make no mistake, We the People, with our consumer dollars, select the winners and losers every time.

Having only one major local source for most consumer items creates a captive market under capitalism that affects the consumer much like a captive market under socialism might. The difference is the quality and variety of goods for sale and the relative wealth of the consumer as it affects his ability to pay for them. Mdeneen, what ever his political leanings may be, has tried to point out that the exploitation of the have-nots in the third world by the haves in developed countries leads to chaos and ruin for the developed country.

It happened to Rome... economic ruler and prime consumer of the known (Western) world. It caught up to Spain & Portugal... once so rich and powerful that the world was divided into two economic trade zones by the Pope. It happened to England when the excesses of Mercantile economics caused the American Colonies to rebel... and that's how we got the Declaration of Independence and Constitution. It happened to the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and brought down that which we (as a family of nations) were not able to bring down by force of arms.

Personally, I have never chosen to be labeled a Democrat or a Republican. I would no more choose a political party by thinking with an engorged or depleted wallet than I would choose a life-long helpmate by thinking with an aroused anatomical appendage. To escape the historical fate of other great nations, we have to become enlightened consumers... for governments have yet to prove equal to the task of keeping us safe. Ask any Enron stockholder...

Whether I like it or not, we live in an inter-dependent world. I prospered under the free enterprise system (as did my employees) and lost tens of millions of dollars when some wealthy arch-conservatives exploited our American Justice System to perfect their conspiracy... by a daylight robbery of my property... using sheriff's deputies drawn guns to silence my protest.

Well, I guess I was lucky to be an American... because if it happened in Poland under Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia... I would have also been jailed... or liquidated by those opposite forces of the political spectrum. My tendency is to write from a personal experience base... and build my opinion with further study and theorizing.

I now know, first hand, that the governmental system that I love doesn't always work for Truth, Justice and the American Way. The Justice System, it seems, has become an expedient method of dispute resolution rather than the epitome of fair play... and "truth" has become a legal abstraction apart from what actually happened, and the American Way can only be restored by an enlightened electorate... and voting machines that record actual votes rather than create probable intent.

Sadly, too often "We the People" are our own worst enemies. We are taught to believe in a "Jeffersonian Democracy" in our schools but, if the truth were known, we live in a "Hamiltonian Democracy" whose architect fell victim to an undemocratic Burr. The virtual decedents of the great Robber Barons of yesterday have morphed into the Wal-Mart-like squeeze plays, and will surely be lurking about tomorrow in some other guise to beat the system... whatever course we consumers are likely to take.

To be vigilant does not require one to become a vigilante... any more than being outspokenly independent warrants being painted by a Broad Red Brush or hidden behind a Blue Blooded Bush.

And, yes, Mike, since it was a reply to your post that Forresthump claims got this thread off kilter... it is only fair that I attempt to reply to your latest post to get back on track. Yes, Mike, I do like tubes with my daily Klipsch diet. -HornEd

This message has been edited by HornEd on 03-21-2002 at 08:11 AM

[Seb]

I will again say that there is a BIG difference between healthcare and defence: yes, both are about death in a certain sense, but it is impossible for an insurance company to post a soldier besides every house or to be able to defend our frontiers effectively. you need a huge monopolistic organization to do that, unfortunately, and we call that organization the government.

healthcare, on the other hand, is provided on an individual basis. we can't prevent viruses from invading the country, and thus protecting all of us collectively, what we must do is to provide insurance so that each one of use, when he gets sick (which underlines another big difference: we get sick at different times individually, but we get attacked or menaced at the same time, collectively), can be cured.

I am of the opinion that more emphasis should be put on people to obtain what they want/need and less on the government. I mean, if I, a 20 year-old full-time student with no experience can earn a decent income, anybody can. I'm getting sick and tired of people making up excuses. There are a lot of jobs out there, just go and freaking look for them, instead of sitting on your nationally-insured butt complaining you don't get enough employment insurance money. I'm sorry, but I am in the middle of paying my taxes, and it pisses me off that I have to pay for some physically and mentally able people that are too lazy to go out and get themselves a decent life. Come on, I'm not exceptionally intelligent or anything, and I know that I can choose from dozens of jobs that may or may not be very rewarding money- and self-esteem-wise, but that could get me through life for a little while, until I find something better and continue climbing the success ladder. And if people didn't spend all their money plus some money they don't even have (credit cards etc.), they wouldn't find themselves in a pathetic situation once their job gets cut off and they have to look for another one.

So I guess my message to people is get off your ***, for crying out loud! I would feel so ashamed if I was so lazy as to depend on poor University students' money... Survival of the fittest has served us well until now, why shouldn't it continue that way? I've seen too many stories of poor, education-less people rising to the top or at least making a decent living to believe in the fairy tale of "I didn't get any break from life, it's not my fault"! Take my Indian friend who came here with 5 CANADIAN dollars in his pocket, without speaking the language, and is now returning to University after earning a more and more decent income. I simply believe in determinism, you make what you want of your life, you just have to stop blaming exterior factors and start acting.

The sole purpose of the government would be to humanly cater to the disabled and allow people to turn their life around, as well as defend us collectively and maintain a proper infrastructure (roads, comunications, etc.). The government is not supposed to be there to subsidize us, it's the other way around. Don't ask what your country can do for you, but what you can do for yourself!

Phew, I feel better now.

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This message has been edited by Seb on 03-21-2002 at 02:16 PM

[Olaf]

quote:

---

Olaf why do you assume that somewhat that somebody starting at a low wage cant excel and earn a higher wage? Key word is Earn. Anything else is a Handout that the Libs so adore

---

.

Forrest

I agree with your post almost completely,but here's the problem...Why are social programs OK for big business such the EITC? Is that not a handout? The Welfare Reform Bill was long overdue but why did the big corporations lobby to hire the 'Welfare-to-work' people to work for $2.00 an hour? Now,who do think think would have picked up the tab to bring them up to the minimum wage? Again,we would have been subsidizing big business. That bill was supposed to save taxpayer money,but by the time all 'goodies' were added up,it would have cost us almost as much.

I see social health care was brought up. Well,in a sense we already have it. Most hospitals will not turn people away with no insurance or money. Who do you think pays for their care? The people who have insurance do. The hospitals charge more more to insurance companies to make up for the free health treatment and the cost of our insurance policies go up as a result.

Even group health plans are socialist in nature. If someone in the group gets open heart surgery then the cost of the insurance premium goes up for everyone,even those who never filed a claim.

This country is much more socialist than people imagine.

[Ray Garrison]

Just to be sure we're all on the same page when arguing various forms of government in threads like this, I thought the following might be useful.

This is a subset of the famous "You have two cows" analysis of various types of government, and I have no idea wence the concept arose or who should be credited. It is enlightening, however.

ANARCHISM: You have two cows. The cows decide you have no right to do anything with their milk and leave to form their own society.

CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.

COMMUNISM -- "State Sponsored": You have two cows. The government takes both of them and gives you part of the milk.

COMMUNISM -- "Pure": You have two cows. Your neighbors help you take care of them, and you all share the milk.

DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. Your neighbors decide who gets the milk.

DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC: You have two cows. Your neighbors pick someone to tell you who gets the milk.

FASCISM: You have two cows. The government takes both, hires you to take care of them, and sells you the milk.

FEUDALISM: You have two cows. Your lord takes some of the milk.

LIBERTARIANISM: Go away. What I do with my cows is none of your business.

NAZISM: You have two cows. The government takes both and then shoots you.

SOCIALISM: You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else's cows. You have to take care of all the cows. The government gives you as much milk as you need.

SOCRATIC METHODISM: How many cows do I have? Why?

SURREALISM: You have two giraffes. The government requires you to take harmonica lessons.

UNITED NATIONISM: You have two cows. France vetoes you from milking them. The United States and Britain veto the cows from milking you. New Zealand abstains.

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