forresthump Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 Those who are born lame deserve some extra protections. If they are abandoned by their family maybe some support from us but in a way that motivates them to be productive. But most learn to be lame, it's environmental and their matter to deal with. Gov handouts only reinforce their lame ways. Nothing wrong with we the Gov priming the pump be it for individuals or corporations. This is what daschle Ignores for the sake of his party's political advancement. Daschle is a pure politician and his day of reckoning is just around the corner. What Minteen advocates is GOV control of matters best left up to the freedom of individuals. What I believe in is Individuals control of their Gov and the matters they have the freedom and responsibility to handle themselves. IT's that simple. ------------------ go forth & hump the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 And Horned as you say consumers vote with their money. So if they don't go to the Wal MArt then they're voting on them to leave town. Can't blame WalMArt for that. The Capitalistic system is not perfect but it's the best option. If anybody really don't like it they can move to france. LOL ------------------ go forth & hump the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 mdeneen, I agree almost entirely to your post. I'd like to see it as a complement to mine, not an opposition. When you liken a nation to the family, I agree, that is why I specifically talked about able vs. disabled people. i meant that at large, including mentally disabled people. of course, to act in a humane way, we must cater to these individuals and appreciate the luck we have to be born healthy and in the right place of the globe. My argument still stands: able people should not be allowed to reap the benefit of an overgenerous government. The bureaucracy required to set up helth insurance is IMO unacceptable, since the same insurance can be provided by individual companies, and the costs driven down by the efficiency of competition, instad of up by the intrinsic inefficiency of our Administration... On the other hand, we need a neutral, non corporate institution to: "Police the stock market; Police air safety; Police the environment; Build missile systems; Explore outer space; or provide for embassies in foreign lands", as you so well put it. Those things cannot be provided by a profit-oriented institution. In fact, I like the idea of privatization to give me the freedom to "pick and choose". For example, if I know I have a very heatlh lifestyle, then I can choose not to be insured for cardiac problems, unless there is a history of that in the family. Of course, some things cannot be individualized, such as building roads for example. Even though I take the metro, I will still have to pay for the roads, for example. No problem with that. But having a system that allows me to choose between several competitors to obtain some of the things I need/want is attractive to me. And I definitely think that the government has alienated itself from me. Why is it that so many people ***** and moan about the gov.? Certainly not because they have a representative one, right? Bring me a political party that vouches for more privatization, RAISING the speed limits in accordance with the capacity of modern cars, etc., and I will vote for it. In the meantime, I am too busy with my studies and work and personal life to go out and create my own polotical slate. So I will have to vote for compromises and liers who don't do half of what they promise to do, and who are afraid of more "extreme" positions because what they really want is to be elected by the politically-correct majority, not to make a real difference. Those people are all about power, they are not after making a true change in our society towards what they think is best. the government needs to be trimmed down from the huge, dumb, slow-moving slug it has become. oh, and about walmart, when it does leave town leaving a lot of services to the population uncatered to, I would only see this as an opportunity for entrepreneurs to rebuild the "mom and pop" small-store infrastructure. again, instead of moaning and complaining that there aren't any stores left to cater to my needs, I'd go out and fill the void! another occasion to profit... ------------------ http://members.fortunecity.com/sebdavid - go laugh at my crappy website/equipment http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mc.asp?alias=Sebdavid - go laugh at my puny little DVD collection This message has been edited by Seb on 03-21-2002 at 05:19 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 Seb, it is good to see a young man seriously reflecting upon the real issues and looking where he can make a difference. With all the practice of thousands of years... human beings of whatever persuasion have a long way to go to make our global village a happier place for a majority of our earthly inhabitants. Sadly, once a small town's small business infrastructure has been bankrupted by the struggle against the well oiled Wal-Mart machine... it takes a brave soul with capital to rush into the void. The main problem is volume... Wal-Mart looks to drag it in from a wider area than local stores can effectively attract (given their higher cost for merchandise). Local banks are often not willing to put up much money when a vacant Wal-Mart store may suddenly attract another Wal-Mart type and cause another infrastructure implosion. While deliberately trying to keep the example brief... let me say that Seb, if you have a way to solve the post Wal-Mart voids... you have no shortage of opportunites all across America. Make a few of them actually pay off and you will be on the road to fame and fortune. -HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 I quoted the Declaration of Independence because nothing from the U.S. Constitutuion struck me at the time. I will find a goodie from that to toss in. Ray's post is GREAT; pure Libertarianism is my favorite, but there are too many people taking up their time telling them what to do with their cows they cannot find the time or the energy to come up with a good marketing plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 good points, HornEd... but isn't there a reason why the big WalMart closed down in the first place? Why would any other big store try its luck after that? just an honest question, I'm obviously not putting the conclusion of your long years of experience and pondering into doubt. I'm looking to learn as much as I can about anything of interest at this point in my life. I have made some preliminary conclusions, but I like to think my mind is very open to change and new ideas, which I think is the right way to go, no? I'll have plenty of time to become a grumpy old man entrenched in his opinions later on... ------------------ http://members.fortunecity.com/sebdavid - go laugh at my crappy website/equipment http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mc.asp?alias=Sebdavid - go laugh at my puny little DVD collection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Again, Seb, your reach for insight is most commendable. The latitudes of the Wal-Mart business model require considerably higher volumes on narrow profit margins to do its thing. Here are some probabilities to ponder: 1. The installation is already built and the local property owner stuck with a special purpose facility that, at best, will likely be under-utilized... and a "sweetheart" lease is usually in order. 2. Most company's operate on much fatter profit margins... not just from a greed point... but as a viable hedge against periods of low sales. Obviously, there are numerous "costs of doing business" even if no business is being transacted. 3. After "econo-feeding" at the "Wal-Mart Trough" the local population is willing to accept a higher-priced alternative that will fill some of the void of selection and proximity. Seb, some of the most spirited uses of old Wal-Mart buildings, IMHO, have been cooperatives of smaller vendors that get together and create a common "market center"... but that requires a leader with the dynamic qualities that you seem to have... and a local bank willing to get its community back on its feet. Of course, the shift in the banking industry runs counter to this sort of community economic rehab. The trend these days is for little banks to be bought up by big banks and big banks to be bought up by bank holding companies. In this scenario, a disproportionate amount of local savings dollars are sucked from smaller communities than are sent to them for use as loans in the local community. Thus, less capital (not more as is often claimed during the takeover) is available for local community redevelopment... and it generally goes to ventures more heavily collateralized than a local dead Wal-Mart makeover. Since the "Wal-Marting" of America runs counter to people finding their way to Klipsch... I trust this "General" thread was helpful to Klipsch consumers. I know it was to me. -HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 I was about to enter Wal-Mart yesterday to buy a pair of RF-7's.I noticed an elderly lady just ahead of me stumble and fall.I took a moment to size up the situation, and walked on inside the Mart.Heck,the old woman looked healthy and apparently could take care of herself.She didn't need my help. I was about to enter Wal-Mart yesterday to buy a pair of RF-7's.I noticed an elderly lady just ahead of me stumble and fall.Without hesitation I stopped and helped the lady to her feet.Later,as I was telling the Wal-Mart Audio Specialist that I would take the pair of Cherry RF-7's with me now and would come back later to buy the RSW15 when I could afford it,I felt a tap on my shoulder.As I turned,I heard the old lady tell the Audio Specialist "this young man helped me earlier and now I'm going to help him. Get him one of those Cherry sub thingy's too,and I'll pay you for it". I guess what goes around comes around. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Besides generating huge tax revenue for the local community W*Mart is also a big charitable contributor to the communtities. They provide Jobs to the people who CHOOSE to work there. That means more tax revenues for the GOV from wages. They provide value in consumer purchasing. That means consumers can buy more, or save and invest more. And Also again more sales tax revenue for we the Government. Numerous Wal*Mart employees who started at minimum wage excelled and became managers. Many employees are now multi-millionaires from their stock plans and stock purchases. And Many investors have become wealthy from Wal*MArt stock. Like I said many of you own a piece of Wal*Mart and Don't know it. Look in your reports for your stock mutual funds, 401k and the like. A few points in the store's defense since this thread is obviously very one-sided. LOL And, Horned, the local Wal*Mart has a much better chance of sticking with the community than any small shop. They have a better chance of being successful and profitable. You taking isolated cases that hardly happen and blowing it out of proportion. Most unfair to the hard working employees, the company and the stock owners. Dont forget they're citizens too. ------------------ go forth & hump the world This message has been edited by forresthump on 03-22-2002 at 03:45 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 quote: Originally posted by forresthump: Besides generating huge tax revenue for the local community W*Mart is also a big charitable contributor to the communtities. They provide Jobs to the people who CHOOSE to work there. That means more tax revenues for the GOV from wages. They provide value in consumer purchasing. That means consumers can buy more, or save and invest more. Numerous Wal*Mart employees who started at minimum wage excelled and became managers. Many employees are now multi-millionaires from their stock plans and stock purchases. And Many investors have become wealthy from Wal*MArt stock. Like I said many of you own a piece of Wal*Mart and Don't know it. Look in your reports for your stock mutual funds, 401k and the like. A few points in the store's defense since this thread is obviously very one-sided. LOL Wally's is the LEAST charitable corporation in the country. Most of the money they donate to charity is raised by their employees and Wal-Fart takes the credit for it. They have the highest turnover rate of employees in the country so it must not be too great of a place to work for. No it is NOT more revenue for the Government. Most of those people qualify for the EITC (they get back more than they pay in) and at least half of the single mothers qualify for food stamps. Many things are actually more expensive than other stores. They throw in 'ringers' to make up for their 'loss leaders.' Yeah,some investors have become rich,but on the backs of the employees and the former merchants in the local economies they have devastated. I won't even mention the factories that they have forced to move off shore because of their bully tactics. Ask anyone who worked at 'The Huffy Bicycle Company" in Ohio. They were forced to move to China because of Wal-Mart's demands.There are some more lost jobs that helped those investors become rich. They're being sued in California because of their tactics. They're giving people 'manager titles' with a small pay increase (salaried) but are requiring them to work up to 80 hours. A huge winner for Wally's. There duties remain basically the same and Wal-Mart can hire less people. I can understand you wanting to come to their defense Forrest,but as for me,I can't find one thing to defend them on. Even Eisenhower said 'Big Business' has to be controled or they'll get out of hand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Ray, Good post. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted March 23, 2002 Share Posted March 23, 2002 So much passion over a chain of discount stores! If one finds Wal-Mart so evil and vile, then I would suggest simply not going there. If enough like minded people do the same, then poof! -- no more sinister discount city. ------------------ JDM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump Posted March 23, 2002 Share Posted March 23, 2002 Yes good point JDM consumers do vote with their dollars. Must be doing something right. LOL SO eat crow left wing suckers. LOL Of course california would sue them, their a left wing anti-business Gov. No wonder most of the leftists on this thread hail from the Left Coast. LOL When you're at the top they cretainly come shooting for you. Look at Microsoft. But how come the Reno justice dept never sued Wal*Mart? No case for a well run value oriented co that's great for the consumer. Wal*MArt excells due to great management. That's what makes a business. Who can blame them if they meet employee, consumer and investor needs. And speaking of investors that's another source of tax Rev for the state and national Government. Dividends and capital gains taxes. Thanks for reminding me. Lets face it OOlaf. You're anti-business and jealous. Same with minteen and brennan. It's called class warfare and you're brainwashed still from Gore and the like and don't even know it. If you want to provide the pertentage of Wmart employees that are EITC and on food stamps I'm all eyes. LOL Nice try at spin again. Blow it out of proportion. And because you guys think you have the majority push it to the limit. Many walmart employees are now millionaires and yes even those that started at Min wage. Wal*Mart is the american dream and you anti-capitalism, anti-business and therefore anti-american. Seeds of this country's destruction i say. ------------------ go forth & hump the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted March 23, 2002 Share Posted March 23, 2002 Just thinking... an Enron thread would be much more volitale than Wal Mart. Rays Cow post is still the best political commentary I have read in a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted March 23, 2002 Author Share Posted March 23, 2002 I thought I would only get 3-5 peoples to respond to this thread! Nice! ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted March 23, 2002 Share Posted March 23, 2002 Must be proud of yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted March 23, 2002 Share Posted March 23, 2002 kenrat, Kinda fun causin a ruckus! I recommended HLS610 to a friend of mine who always wanted to own JBL he really likes them. Save up some money, bypass the Synergy step and go right for Reference or Heritage. ..and then feel the force flow through you young Skywalker! Note: Wife out today; Who "Who's Next" through RB 5s...... they aint havin this much fun in Murmansk today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted March 23, 2002 Author Share Posted March 23, 2002 Mike: Proud I am... Audio Flynn: I love the HLS-610's. I have not been able to compare them to anything else, so I don't know how good they are. I have a review in one of my audio magizines (NOT INTERNET) that says the HLS-610's are every bit as good as the top of the line, $4,300 NHT's, but they can't go as loud (no $hit). I agree, I will definetly go for Reference. I actually listened to the 6.5" Synergy bookshelf and choose the JBL's over them! That was in ~1996. I listened to the Klipsch RB-5II at Good Guys in Reno (he, he, I broke their case where the receiver and CD player was, silly me. Leverage is stronger than a lock...) and compared the to Polk Audio, Boston Acoustics Reference, Energy, and everything else, and they were the best for me. Now if I could find them cheap somewhere. I will nee dto do some barganing at Good Guys... ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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