Help with separating HT from 2 Ch

[amusingisthedawn]

Eventually I would like to completely separate home theater from 2 channel stereo, but it's a long ways away.

Right now, I use the Denon receiver in Pure Direct mode. When it is in that mode it can't use the sub. The speakers really stand out because it allows me to use the DAC in the DCD-3520, however...I think I might be missing that extra bass.

2 questions:

How do you use a sub, or 2 subs with the receiver in that mode?

Will I notice a difference if I buy an amp and use the Denon as a preamp?

[winchester21]

In response to your second question- are you considering a 2 channel amp to enhance your music listening or a 5 channel amp to enhance your HT?

I fought this battle about a year ago. I found the outboard amps worked wonders to enhance HT and yielded only margainal inprovements in the 2 ch mode- this is highly subjective and particular to the individual system.I was not able to get any decent 2 ch sound out of my HT receiver in 2ch or CD mode. I ended up selling all of my stuff and starting from scratrch. You would be much better to bite the bullet and buy a preamp/power amp using your existing front speakers for both. There may be a HT recv out there that will do both but I have not found it . My 2 cents worth

[amusingisthedawn]

The Denon receiver is really wonderful for HT. Like most people though...I feel it lacks something in 2 channel.

I don't know how much of a difference I will see though. I have the DCD-3520 run through composite cables so I am bypassing the DAC in the receiver. It sounds quite a bit better than when I was using the BD player for music...but I feel I could still do something.

How would I incorporate a preamp/power amp into my set-up now?

[willland]

How does it sound with a digital coax cable connecting the 3520 to the 2808 in stereo mode with the sub? With my setup, pure direct mode on my receiver sounds really anemic compared to stereo with sub. Do an A/B comparison using analog cables(3520 DAC's) and digital coax(2808 DAC's) in stereo mode w/sub.

When I added my B&K amp using the Onkyo as a preamp, my RF-63's came alive with tons of headroom and great seperation. What I noticed the most was how detailed the music is at lower volumes.

Bill

PS

I want your 3520. About two months ago I was one hour too late from picking up a mint one owner 3520 for $40.00.

[USNRET]

With my Denon (AVR-4306) I can select Direct stereo mode w/sub or the Prue Direct without sub. I can not hear the difference between the two (with sub off), I just don't hear the "turning off the displays makes it sound better".

Using the Denon as a pre-amp into a Mc amp made a world of difference in two channel. Using the Denon as a pre/pro into a Mc multi-channel amp in HT mode not so big a difference (sold the multi-channel). Having two setups, one Denon HT and the other a Peach/VRD 2 channel setup made one hell of a difference.

MY opinion is that HT mode is much more 'lenient' and moving up from the 4306 in that mode would require serious room treatments and such to discern the improvement as the Denon is a fine HT receiver. I will know more when I get moved up on the Emotiva pre-order queue and get the UMC-1 now on order. When I get the call I will be putting the Denon up for sale in order to get the matching amp and give that a shot just because.....

[amusingisthedawn]

The DAC is far superior in the DCD-3520. With the sub on in pure direct mode...set to crossover at 60hz, it sounds good. Stereo mode sounds too bassy and dull. It has a lot of boom and the highs get muddled. Direct mode makes it clean up a bit, but the drivers in the KLF's don't start to really come alive until I put it in Pure Direct mode. Pure Direct in the denon sounds clean and crisp and works the KLF's hardest.

Maybe using the Denon as a preamp will do something for my ears. I'm thinking about spending loot on a pair of SVS Ultras w/samson 1000's though

[amusingisthedawn]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130358175964&ssPageName=ADME:L:PMR:US:1123

I was so glad when someone on here mentioned this. Soo sweet to have it now.

[wuzzzer]

How do you use a sub, or 2 subs with the receiver in that mode?

You don't. Pure Direct takes whatever signal is input into the receiver and then outputs it without any extra processing. A CD input is a 2.0 input: two full-range stereo channels and that's it. The only way to use a sub in that mode would be to use the high level speaker outputs from the receiver, connecting them to the sub and then connecting your speakers to the high level outputs on your sub (that is if you have high level ins/outs on your sub). Its generally not recommended to connect a sub this way, and most modern subs don't even give you that option.

One thing to note is that with most receivers Pure Direct bypasses any EQ settings you have and also usually bypasses any individual speaker level output controls you have. So, if you have an automatic setup on your receiver or if you've set the receiver's output levels for individual speakers, that will not be in effect in Pure Direct mode. Since Klipsch are so sensitive most of the time they are set to a negative amount in the receiver's speaker level output controls. So, let's say that your front mains are set to -5.0dB for their output level. In Pure Direct mode they are essentially set to 0.0dB, 5dB louder given the same volume setting on your receiver. In blind A/B tests a louder speaker is almost always pereceived by our brain and our ears as being the 'better' speaker. Its just one thing to keep in mind when it comes to modes such as Pure Direct. In many instances its more of a placebo effect. If anything its actually making your receiver work much harder because instead of your subwoofer amplifying the signal from 80Hz or so on down, now the receiver has to amplify it. Bass eats up headroom in a hurry.

[vnzbd]

What would be the major sound difference if you ran the receiver in "stereo mode" vs "pure direct mode"? I would believe if you left all of the tone controls,etc. at the neutral settings you could then add you sub. My avr experience has been primarily with Onkyo and Marantz but thats what I have been able to do with favorable results to my ears.

[amusingisthedawn]

Now this is strange.

I went into the audio setting for direct/stereo and I added the sub, set the xover to 60hz and bam...pure direct mode now has a sub with a xover setting in it. I wasn't able to do this when I used the BD player(via HDMI) for CD's, but since I now use composite connects with the DCD, it works. I don't get it, but it sounds real good...better than direct mode with a sub.

Also...I have to go and check, but I don't think the denon ever set the levels of the mains below 0db.

I have decided that I am going to incorporate a sub into two channel stereo...why...because I like it better. Perhaps the solution to a better sound instead of using pure direct or direct or stereo...I can use the Denon as a preamp and get a nice amplifier, and two SVS ultras.

[wuzzzer]

I have decided that I am going to incorporate a sub into two channel stereo...why...because I like it better. Perhaps the solution to a better sound instead of using pure direct or direct or stereo...I can use the Denon as a preamp and get a nice amplifier, and two SVS ultras.

Now you're talkin'!

[amusingisthedawn]

The search has begun. Top of the list...SVS Ultra/Samson 1000.