The Onkyo HT RC 180

[ka7niq]

I broke down and bought one of these new Onkyo receivers, and it is truly amazing. It is basically the same as the more expensive 807 Model, with one less HDMI Out, and 20 wpc "less" rated, LOL It weighs exactly the same. It's peak output into 3 ohms is exactly the same, get the picture ? It has the Audyssey DSX surround scheme from Tom Holman, as well as every thing you could want in a receiver, including excellent 2 ch sound. In fact, you can even use it to biamp your speakers. The new Onkyo WRAT amplifier is sweet sounding, and casts a nice soundstage in 2 ch. It drives my B&W Matrix 801's with ease, and sounds great. It has HDMI, that my older Yamaha RX V1 did not, and incredible bass management for the subwoofers. God, what is not to like ?

It is dead quiet with my Cornwall 2's, w/o any harshness. Onkyo WRAT amp goes out to 100k with very low negative feedback, and plenty of power. It runs fairly hot, so I would expect it to have high bias, making it's first few watts clean. No, it is not quite as good as my very best separates, but it is so close that when you take into account it is a one box solution the whole family can enjoy with awesome home theater surround effects, it makes a strong case for itself. My recent experiences with the nice receivers available today have convinced me the performance gap is closing between separated and receivers.

It is not a "tone control" like many older vintage tube and solid state pieces now are, with bad caps/components that roll off, or soften the sound. But if you have speakers that are properly designed in a room friendly to them, that is not needed or wanted anyway. B&W Matrix 801's are not the easiest load to drive, and will quickly expose bad sounding amps/receivers, etc, etc. If a component can drive them, and not harsh you out, or shut their imaging down, it is a good component. Only on my Son's Rap Music at really loud levels did I detect the Onkyo running out of steam, in a very large room. For 90 percent of music, I did not find myself missing my separates very much. No, the very last degree of imaging, punch, and sound quality is not there, compared to my tube DAC and tube preamp with big dual solid state monster amps driving the 801's in a passive bi amp configuration. But the 801' s still sound very musical with just the Onkyo HT RC 180 powering them. IMHO, this Onkyo is a fine example of a well designed and implemented product you can afford. If you are not looking for the very last little bit of 2 ch performance, at ten times the cost, and want a mind blowing home theatre and stereo experience with Audyssey DSX, this may be right for you. Currently, this receiver is the lowest cost component incorporating Audyssey DSX surround technology. I was honestly prepared to use this only as a Preamp, and use a separate amp for the 801's, This Onkyo surprised me in its ability to drive the 801's, and sound quite good doing it too.

[willland]

Ka7niq,

Thanks for your review of the Onkyo avr. I am also a fan of Onkyo receivers. I have found them to be very reliable with tons of features and excellent for home theater. While the 2 channel performance may not shine the way a Marantz, B&K or NAD does, I don't think they are inferior the way many on this forum find them. With proper setup(EQ, placement,conponent & speaker matching), the Onkyo's can hold their own with just about any brand of avr's for 2 channel and top most of them with HT.

Just ask Marshall(groomlakearea51) how his Onkyo TX-SR605 sounds with his (6) Cornwalls.

Bill

[ka7niq]

Marshall and both are in Florida. I wonder if his 605 has the WRAT Amplifier too ? I had an Onkyo receiver about 10 years ago that sounded just dreadful, harsh tinny highs, no imaging, listener fatigue set in quickly.The WRAT amplifier in the newer Onklyo's is different, from what I hear. I am loving the Audyssey dynamic EQ and DSX Surround, and the HDMI makes connection a breeze. When I unhooked the Yamaha RX V1 I just sold, forgot to mark the speaker wires of all the surrounds, LOL That was fun, sorting them all out.

[jrod]

Your Onkyo is pretty similar to my Integra (you have 10 more wpc and 1 more HDMI). You are right about 2-channel, once you get everything tweeked the way you like it, the music is full and powerful sounding. As far as HT goes, I've personally never had a better receiver (and I've owned Yammy and Denon). Movies are so life like and the surround effects are outstanding.

I'm planning on adding an Emotiva xpa-3 to really open up my front soundstage and leave the Integra to run the rears.

Enjoy your new Onkyo!!

Jrod

[ka7niq]

Man, I was screwing around, and biamped the B&W 801's with the HT RC 180. Have to give up 2 surround channels, but oh does it sound nice! In the bi amped configuration, it lacks nothing except the warmth of tubes. Imaging and detail are increased, with an effortless ease to the sound. Watched a movie in Dolby Pro Logic IIx, and the added height dimension is very well done, really expands the soundstage. Never had a HDMI anything before my new 73 in Mitsubishi DLP, but it makes everything so easy. I get on screen display now, w/o having to switch TV display inputs.. MY CD player is not HDMI, soI go out with optical to the Onkyo's DAC. I hooked it up analog too, so I can compare. No comparison, the Onkyo's newer Burr Brown Dacs are better, smoother, more relaxed sounding, image is bigger too. I am still in awe every time I read the owners manual, and find all the stuff this thing will do. Like computers, these receivers keep getting better. It even has detachable power cord, so you can play with different types of power cords! I have an aftermarket power cord on it from a company that is not in business anymore. My girlfriend loves it, because it is easy to operate with the HDMI, she just puts it on DVD, and she is ready to watch movie w/o bothering me.

[ka7niq]

I forgot to add the remote adds volume, in a hurry. The Yamaha RX V1 drove me nuts, because it took forever for the volume control to increase, almost like it was "afraid" to be played loud, The Onkyo can't wait, it gets loud in a hurry, almost like it is begging you to push it. I just listened to it's tuner for the first time (The 801's are still biamped) and it was shockingly 3 dimensional, with images outside the plane of the 801's. Voices projected foreward, and depth was good. I do hear a bit of "tizz" on the tuner that was not there on a seperate Yamaha TX 950 Tuner, in case anyone listens to FM as a primary source ?

The "Tizz" bothers me, and if FM is your primary souce of music, either don't buy this, or simpy get a seperate tuner ? Remember, I am listening on B&W 801's that are very revealing, it may not be as apparent on your speakers ? Be warned!, FM is almost an "afetrthought" on many receivers of today, and this is Sirius Ready. FM is not a dealbreaker for me, and this "Tizz" is definately Tuner Related, for it is not there at all on CD's or DVD's. I will write more as I learn more about this new addition to the house.

[jrod]

ka7niq,

I'm glad to hear that you really liked the bi-amping, my Integra allows for the same thing, I just might give it a try. I've heard from a lot of people that it makes little, to no, difference at all. Of course, I'm stubborn, so I wanna try it!!

Again, glad to hear you are enjoying a fine Onkyo product, just like myself!!

[smokarz]

congrats ka7niq. glad to hear you're ejoying your new purchase.

i was dead set on a Denon, but your reviews make me seriously consider this unit. it's gotta be one great bang for the bucks as the RC180 can be had for under $600 if you keep your eyes opened. lol

[ka7niq]

ka7niq,

I'm glad to hear that you really liked the bi-amping, my Integra allows for the same thing, I just might give it a try. I've heard from a lot of people that it makes little, to no, difference at all. Of course, I'm stubborn, so I wanna try it!!

Again, glad to hear you are enjoying a fine Onkyo product, just like myself!!

I have not figured out how to control the amps levels YET in a biamp configuration. But if you have a 2 way speaker, like the Klipsch CF 4's I used to own, you can simply reduce the gain a bit to the tweeter amp, giving a warmer sound Or, on really well recorded stuff bass heavy stuff like Boz Skaggs , increase it for more detail. Try it, see what you think ?

[Yura]

Onkyo's generally run very hot and require a lot of cooling. Make sure there is a lot of room where the AVR is and that it doesn't overheat. Onkyo is generally the bang-for-your-buck type of brand and defenetly does well in providing features for the price.

I looked at Onkyo (and i still have one) but went with Denon for my recent install due to heat issues. Denons run very cool.

[ka7niq]

congrats ka7niq. glad to hear you're enjoying your new purchase.

i was dead set on a Denon, but your reviews make me seriously consider this unit. it's gotta be one great bang for the bucks as the RC180 can be had for under $600 if you keep your eyes opened. lol

Of course, I looked at the Demons, but the Denon's with Audyssey DSX Surround Technology were all very expensive. I had the good fortune to hear an Audyssey DSX System, properly set up. I did not want to be w/o it. Yes, the HT RC 180 is the "sleeper" in the Onkyo line, it is really an Onkyo 807 with one less HDMI out. It is "rated" 20 wpc less, but it's peak power into 3 ohms is the very same, as is it"s weight. Someone is Lying, LOL It carries a THX Select rating, whoopty ding. I am more concerned about sound quality, and the Onkyo WRAT Amp delivers what it promises. Don't throw away the Krells and Levinson's, but it is a good sounding component, especially for what it can be had for ? BTW, the Audyssey DSX surround system really expands the stereo image, now IF you could hide the speakers in the walls, behind an acoustically transparent picture, you can literally blow even the most Jaded audio snobs mind, when it comes to soundstage expansion [:'(] When adjusted and set up correctly, there are no phony reverb sounds like in the Yamaha DSP system. The first time I heard it, I said "WTF" is going on here. The brains behind Odyssey DSX is Tom Holman, the man who made the APT 1 preamp and amp, and the TH in THX. One bright engineer Tom is. Maybe if Best Buy or some local retailer carries Onkyo, take one home, and listen to this new technology ? You have 30 days to try it usually, and if you dont like it, or they refuse to match Internet pricing, give it back, and buy accordingly ? It is a fairly sizeable receiver too, looks impressive for what it costs. No, it does not weight 60 lbs like my Yamaha RX V1 did, but it did not cost almost 3 grand either. I feel it is one of the best bang for the buck receivers currently out there, and stupid good, for what you can buy it for.FM Tuner aint great, but it is Sirius ready, if you are into that. My kid just noticed it has an optional I Pod dock, no WAY I am gonna buy that! He has Rap Music from hell on his Ipod, and will be blasting the Cornwall 2's every chance he gets! Every time I read the owners manual, I find out something else it has. I mainly bought it, intending to use it as a pre amp/surround processor only with Audyssey DSX. No way was it gonna drive 801's, but it surprised me. One day, I may still run some of my amps off it to power the 801's, but I feel no pressing need. At this moment, I am just enjoying my purchase, and keep shaking my head in wonder how Onkyo can give so much performance, for so little money.

[Youthman]

I looked at the Demons

[:^)]

[ka7niq]

I looked at the Demons

LOL, that was an unintentional TYPO, but I just watched Hellraiser 3 on the Onkyo. Plenty of Demons in that movie, That Pinhead guy is a real piece of work, pure evil.

[ka7niq]

Just back from an hours listening session on the 801's and the Onkyo. I listened to about 15 songs on several different CD's I am familiar with. It still sounds great. I think Onkyo may be onto something with this WRAT Amplifier stuff ? It is probably a copy of some other amp design ? The you know who's are famous for that, but who cares ? It seems to work, at least on my speakers. This is some stuff I found on how the WRAT Amplifier works. Nothing new really, at least in some high end amplifiers. It is a wide bandwidth, low negative feedback design, with high current capability. They paid attention to the ground path of the amplifiers, and selected components that would not compromise the amplifiers bandwidth. Whatever ... it sure sounds nice, especially for the money. Here is their propaganda about it.

WRAT2
	Benefit 1: Uncommonly Low Negative-Feedback Design—so you’ll enjoy cleaner sound on programme peaks
	Although NFB (negative feedback) is the most cost-effective way to reduce noise at lower frequencies, there’s a sonic price to pay: larger amounts of NFB severely inhibit an amplifier’s transient response—the ability to respond to large signal gains (e.g. explosions and musical finales)—and actually distort sound at high frequencies. That’s why our engineers use a low negative-feedback design, with audiophile-grade, close-tolerance components at critical points in the signal path, to achieve a frequency response out to 100 kHz. That means you can fully enjoy the sonic benefits from such high-resolution formats as DVD-Audio and Super Audio CD as well as your regular CDs and DVDs.
	Benefit 2: Closed Ground-Loop Circuits—so you’ll enjoy greater maximum volume without distortion
	If an amplifier’s ground potential (voltage) fluctuates during playback of movie soundtracks or musical performances, you wind up with unpleasant noise. In an open-loop circuit design, all circuits are connected to the power supply via one loop. If all circuits share the same loop (like on many amplifiers), the noise multiplies exponentially. Onkyo’s sophisticated closed-circuit design allows each circuit to go and return directly to the power supply. This cancels any individual circuit noise, and keeps the ground potential free of distortion.
	Benefit 3: High Instantaneous-Current Capability—so you’ll enjoy film soundtracks with greater impact
	Audio signals are very complex. After the amplifier outputs such signals to a speaker, the speaker itself accumulates energy. When the speaker reflexes, it sends energy back to the amplifier. The amplifier must immediately be able to supply a large amount of high current to cancel the speaker’s reflex energy, and instantaneously send out the next signal. The same high current is also necessary to handle speaker impedance fluctuations, which on occasion force an amplifier to provide four to six times its usual current load. The instantaneous current capability of even Onkyo’s least expensive WRAT receivers is far better than that of most conventional units. This is because competing designs commonly have less than half the current capability. The result? The high-current capability incorporated into all Onkyo receivers means your receiver can deliver movie soundtracks with theatre-like dynamics and clarity—so you’ll get the same exciting sonic slam that you experienced in the cinema.

[ka7niq]

Threw the Cornwall 2's in place of the 801's, did some more listening in 2ch w/o subwoofers turned on. Sounded good, about as good as I have ever heard the Cornwall 2's sound, overall. Sound had a "precision" about it, a sort of "purity". No glare, no overly warm sound like a Tube Amp, just a neutral sound with just a hint of warmth/purity. Imaging was good ( for the Cornwall 2's), and sound was big and powerful. I activated my subwoofers, and listened again.This receiver allows you to adjust both bass and treble ( I don't use them) and subwoofer level remotely! I could dial in just the right amount of bass for each track, a neat feature. A small on screen display activates to tell you the settings for balance, tone controls, volume, and sub level. You can turn it off too, but I like it, it is not annoying, just small one line of writing, telling you what the control you just engaged is doing.

The Remote leaves much to be desired for an old guy like me! The bottons are small, but in time I will remember them. Volume control is near top of remote, not real good for my carpal tunnel syndrome ? That was stupid to put it way up there, IMHO. It also has a music enhancer, WTF that is ?

I turned it on, just for kicks, and it did make some songs better (too much of a purist to leave it on). I need to find out what it is, and how it works ? Found out you have to enable it for deep color HDMI support, if your TV has it ? By defalt, it is not enabled. Coming from a large Yamaha RX V1, this is a bit smaller/lighter, but not much. It weighs 39 pounds. It was easy to reduce gain to the Cornwalls 2's, so my subs could keep up with them. Big efficinecy difference there. On screen display is real pretty too, very impressive, easy to use. Carpal Tunnel is acting up, will write more later.