Where can I find info on La Scala vs Jube/Scala

[chrapladm]

I am trying to decide on what to build. I am leaning towards the La scala because I cant find any plans on the Khorn that are descriptive enough for me to build. I have seen pics of the Jubilee and Jamboree but no plans for them either. Yes I know how to get the Jamboree plans but Dana hasn't emailed me back. Maybe I not worthy enough.? No big deal.

I have looked at so many bass bins that I am now sold instead of building a simple ported bass cab for lows I am going to build a "Klipsch," style bass bin. I have looked at the 4000 series stuff and 525/535 and liked the look of those also. After searching many times on this forum I keep seeing little tastes of models sketches or reading that someone can build them from scratch with there eyes closed. Greg. LOL

Well all those things dont help me. Now I have found and downloaded a descriptive step by step of the La Scala and a 3D blowup whihch does help so I am thinking of building maybe the La Scalas.

DO some more searching and then I find vague info on the JubeScala. So What is exactly the JubeScala?

My plans are to build a 3 way triamped loudspeaker with the BMS 4592 mid and the Beyma CP25 for the highs. I would like to cross the mid CD off as low as I can so Greg mentioned 300hz. So 300 hz it is. I will be building 3 of these for my L/C/R in my dedicated HT. Greg from Volti Audio has been a big help in regards to information and suggestions. I was going to place the loudspeakers 18inches from each corner but now have decided that if I build a Klipsch design I will have the cab in the corner.

I am thinking of either a Jube/Scala(whatever that is) or a regular La Scala for my 3 up front. I am just wondering everyones impression on the La Scala or Jube/Scala's and where could I get some more plans on the combo J/S.

Thanks again for any info anyone can pass on,

David C

[Coytee]

So What is exactly the JubeScala?

My plans are to build a 3 way

Welcome to the forum. Here's my thoughts.

First, in reverse order...having heard how much better a Khorn (and LaScala) sound if you can get 30 feet away from them and how much better (coherent) a 2-way Jubilee sounds WITHOUT having to be 30 feet away from it... I would suggest you investigate a 2-way if possible.

That is the essence of a JubeScala.

The idea of the JubeScala was for those people who had a pair of Jubilee's and might want a center channel without going full blown size/expense of a Jubilee. I read that the weak point of the Khorn bass bin was that it only went so high and PWK wanted to raise the crossover point. I also thought I knew that a LaScala went higher than the Khorn bin.

Originally, the thought (my thought) was to put a K402 on top of a LaScala bass bin and I'm here to tell you that is still the best way to go if you can deal with the size imposition of the K402 horn.

In my specific circumstance, I might have a drop down screen and the K402 will be getting in the way. I might opt for the smaller K510 horn. If I go this route, the K510 horn will actually fit INSIDE the top of the LaScala bin after I gut it and reconfigure the front motorboard.

So, to be more direct with an answer..."what is exactly the JubeScala?" It is first and foremost, a fully engineered Klipsch solution rather than a garage built/assembled solution. It's been through the anechoic chamber process and has been voiced (or what ever term they use)

Where are you located? There are a handful of JubeScalas out there. Actually, as I reflect... there is a pair on the west coast, Texas, Illinois. I know that I can configure a pair here (Knoxville, TN). I can also give a side by side with a stock LaScala with one of Al K's 'extreme slope' crossovers in it, next to the full blown K402 JubeScala (I don't have a K510 yet).

Little doubt in me that if you hear a JubeScala you will immediately reconsider your current plans. (not to say you will change them, only reconsider)

I don't know of any plans for the LaScala although I've seen them float about over the years. If it were me and I had the space, I'd only build the bass bins and make them stronger than the original version (use 1" instead of 3/4") I'd then sit the K402 right on top. Only if I didn't have the space or simply had to give in to 'her' would I prefer to use the K510 over the K402.

Hpe that helps some. You might list where you are....perhaps if we know that we can see what's near you.

[Coytee]

Here's a thread with a couple pictures I put on AK. I did it so the pictures could be somewhat consolidated and someone could see the different ways to configure. None of these have the K510 built inside the top of the LaScala, they're on top.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=277994&highlight=jubescala

Here's another thread where Steve has put a K510 inside a Belle. Interstingly, I can't view any pictures on this thread at home. (I think his pictures are large and I'm on dialup at home)

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/126843.aspx

He's the first one to mate the K510 with a Belle and from what I understand, the first one to integrate the 510 inside the top of any speaker rather than simply setting it on top.

Edit: I just waited the 10 minutes it took for a SINGLE one of his pictures to load. Guess I was wrong and he didn't build it in. Price I pay for typing prior to seeing []

[chrapladm]

I hate when I have to join a forum just to see pictures. AAAHHHHH

Thanks though. I will sign up later to check out the pics.

I live in Adelaide, Australia for the past 2 years now.

I would like to build whatever I am going to go with. If I can. I was trying to copy a cinema 3 way deign I heard that I loved but I wanted to have a Klipsch like bass bin.

But after checking out so many other designs nothing is set in stone. I just thought it would be a good idea to go with a low midhorn with a Fc260 horn from Greg and match it with the Beyma CP25 for the sound I wanted. Now the bass bin I have no idea which I want. I just know that the La Scala build is the only "plans," I can find.

Now if you and others say there is a way to have even better sound in a Klipsch like body I am all for it. I will have only about two feet for depth restraints. The center will also have to be lifted 32"'s to clear my subs. Other than that I am all open for suggestions.

Oh and ny suggestions hopefully will be possible for me to build. I cant afford the real thing.

[Coytee]

I hate when I have to join a forum just to see pictures. AAAHHHHH

My apologies. I didn't realize that. I'll post them here. They're strewn about on the forum anyway but I'll try to get them in this thread.

As an owner of LaScalas for 30 years, I'll give you one of my unsolicited opinions. If you have the space, if you have the money to purchase or skill set to build then if you want a no compromise balls to the wall sound I'd suggest you try to build a Jubilee clone. To really make it work you'd still have to either buy their top horn or create something that isn't a Klipsch engieered solution.

I'll start posting the pictures

This is the larger K402 horn sitting on top of a full original style LaScala. As you might notice, the horn on top is actually larger than the LaScala itself. Much like sitting a LaScala sideways on top of a LaScala!

[Coytee]

This is the K402 sitting on top of a LaScala II bass bin. The new LaScala II's have two sections. You can easily remove the top section. If you built a bass bin alone, this is sort of what I'm suggesting

[Coytee]

This is the smaller K510 horn. As you can see, it will fit inside the top section of the LaScala but there won't be much room to spare!!

I've heard this horn a couple times. In my opinion, if you are sitting ON axis with it, then it sounds just about as good as the larger horn. When you get off axis, that is when I think you can start to really tell a difference between the two horns.

This is one reason why I'm considering using this one for a center channel. It will tend to be the focal point. Actually....that's partially 'bs' because I'd really rather have the larger horn I just dont know yet if I'll be able to stuff it into the location.

[Coytee]

Perhaps I should add in case you are unaware. In all of these applications you are looking at a 2-way setup. Most of the people who have this type setup have gone with biamping so if you are looking to triamp you will perhaps save some cash from not having to buy a third amp!!

Just to give you an idea of how versitile the K402 is, here's some more pictures of it. This is the Jubilee which I suppose you've seen pictures.

[Coytee]

K402 on the MWM bass bin.

Here's a thought for you to ponder....

If the K402 will work on this bass bin (and sound incredible I might add) do you really think it will have any trouble 'keeping up' with a LaScala bass bin?

[chrapladm]

Ok well lets make things harder....hahahah

I like the k402 on the LaScala bin. It seems like the easiest thing for me to do. Now I will be building my amps so I am not worried about the amps. BUT that being said I will be saving myself some money by going with the 2 way system. Now how much is a K-402 anyways?

And of coarse I have to ask is it beneficial for me to have the Jubilee if I am crossing the speakers off at around 80hz?

I will have the sub crossed over at 70-80hz. Dont know how deep the L/R will need to go but a balls to the wall sound description sounds like what I want. And I am smashing all these huge amounts of power into a 17.5ft x 12.5ft x 9.5ft room.

I have not seen any drawings for the Jubilee either so I dont know if I could build the Jub but I will definitely try the La Scala bass bin with the k402 unless I find more info on the other. And is the k402 far supperior to the BMS CD's?

I think the shipping to me is what would cost so much. I horn like the k402 would probably cost more than all of the other parts for the cab. BUT if it is that much better than the 510 than I will just have to save up for it.

[Coytee]

Ok well lets make things harder

It's my job [A]

Now how much is a K-402 anyways?

I do not know an exact price since mine were included. That said, I think domestically, they are 'about' $1,000. For this amount (domestically) you get the whole assembly as seen (which you can't really see). You get the K402 horn, the K69 driver and the mounting tray it's all sitting on. Also (domestically) that price usually includes any tax and any shipping expense....USUALLY.

It really is a function of open the box, pull the unit out, set on top, plug in....and play.

And of coarse I have to ask is it beneficial for me to have the Jubilee if I am crossing the speakers off at around 80hz?

Interesting question and frankly, one that is out of my expertise. I know that Roy has added a 32hz 'boost' to the active settings we're using. It's one of those "use it if you like and don't if you don't". Evidently, he says that even though this is a horn loaded woofer, it is STILL operating from a sealed chamber. He thought he could extract some extra depth out of it for home use and do so with minimal distrotion added.

He once talked about subwoofers. I think they were being crossed at roughly 80hz but I don't remember. I DO however, remember asking him "if we are able to take our Jubilee's down to 32 hz with horn loaded bass....would it not make sense to cross the subwoofer over LOWER so we could keep as much horn loaded bass as we can before we start getting into the extra distortion generated by the direct radiators"

He said I had already used up my alloted good ideas for the day however, I might have a point. We never talked much past that. So, with that said, Chris (fellow Jubilee owner) has some Danley tapped horns. Two of them. According to him, they are horn loaded and blend in with the bass of the Jubilee's like peanut butter and jelly blend.

Dont know how deep the L/R will need to go but a balls to the wall sound description sounds like what I want

Interestingly, I think I have used that very phrase when describing the Jubilee's at times. They can be VERY balls to the wall!!! In fact, I was once being stupid.... I put a live DVD of Rush into player and forwarded to the drum solo. I then cranked the volume up to about "stupid" and got about 30 feet away from them. They were hitting it hard. I could feel the initial transiant PUNCH in my chest 30 feet away that I could feel with my Khorns when I was only 10 feet away from them. I personally do NOT even feel the need for a sub however, after hearing others that I have great respect for, I'm open to trying one.

I have not seen any drawings for the Jubilee

Since it's a current production model, you might appreciate that they do not offer blueprints on their forum. There is some AES paper that might have some basic dimensions however, this construction stuff is over my head and I don't know where these guys who have built clones, got their dimensions.

I dont know if I could build the Jub but I will definitely try the La Scala bass bin

I'm not a woodworker so I can't say how easy somethign is. I would think that a LaScala bass bin would be easier than a Jubilee bass bin BUT.... with that said, if you have the skills for one I'd speculate you have the skills for the other.

is the k402 far supperior to the BMS CD's

No clue. I'm not familar with them and have probably never heard them. I'm simply a fan of Klipsch so prefer to keep my choices in their family. I also like the fact that by going with a fully Klipsch engineered solution, I know that all the bugs have been worked out and all I really need to do is obtain the proper parts and put them together. I don't need to get into the game of trial & error or simply taking other peoples word for it.

I think the shipping to me is what would cost so much. I horn like the k402 would probably cost more than all of the other parts for the cab. BUT if it is that much better than the 510 than I will just have to save up for it.

Perhaps others will chime in. I know that the K402 will control the sound much better than the K510. If you take them both outside or to your local corner anechoic chamber [], you can walk behind the speaker and give things a listen. With the K510 playing you WILL hear a lot more information when standing beside and behind the speaker than when you use the K402. Although they both sound great while playing ON axis, I have to think that the more sound the K510 emits to the side & rears can only mean (in an absolute sense) that this same sound is less controlled when in your room and will consequently be splashing around your room more than when the 402 is used.

All about tradeoffs. Cost, availablity, sound preference....

[chrapladm]

I will have quite a few sound applications for absorbing initial first and second deflections of sound.

I will have to have my subs when I want to feel 5hz from BlackHawk Down or other movies. There is quite a bit of content below 12hz in movies now and I am building the subs to be able toreplay all of it.

Well I would love to build a Jub but I think I will have to stick with the La Scala because of what I have found available info wise.

I was looking at the Bob Crites website and was looking at the replacement parts. Is there were I could go to get my parts for a build?

http://www.critesspeakers.com/prices-other_stuff.html

I saw he had a 12" and thought maybe 2 of these would be the Jubilee?

Have you heard the Jamboree?

And how low do the La Scala's go?

In regards to the 510 vs 402 is there a difference in clarity?

ANd how tall is the La Scala with the 402 on top?

[Coytee]

If you mean the 12" woofers... I am not sure they're the same. I think the Jubilee uses two K31's. Side note...you might contact Bob. I know he's heard the Jubilee, JubeScala and he owns a pair of MWM's as well. He might be in a unique position to give you some opinions.

If you go with the LaScala bass bin then he'd be able to give you the parts for it.

As for how tall is the LaScala with the K402? ouch... I don't know. The basic speaker itself is right at 36" from floor to the top (including the HF horn section). I suspect the 402 is maybe 24" tall? I've got one...I've also measured it!!! I just can't remember. Perhaps when I get home tonight I'll measure it again.

If you lop off the top of the bass bin then I think you have something closer to 24" tall on the bottom before adding the height of the 402?

[Coytee]

Have you heard the Jamboree?

No, I haven't

And how low do the La Scala's go?

I don't know the number however, if you are going to use a sub with them they will go low enough to get you there. I think there are many here who might feel that LaScalas paired with some good subwoofers is THE way to go! Especially when you look at it from a cost/performance point of view.

[chrapladm]

Maybe I should just build some MWM's.....hahahaha sarcasm

I will have to send him an email later and see what he has to say about parts.

Any clue about a price for the 510?

Do you have any pics of the mounting aparatus for the 402?

This was originally the design I was going to clone: Either the 2 way or the 3 way

3 way:

http://krix.com.au/Product/Detail.aspx?p=45&id=38 Here is the link for the 2 way:

http://krix.com.au/Product/Detail.aspx?p=45&id=24

So with the 402 it isn't that much of a diff than I wanted to have anyways.

I got to hear these models the other day:

http://krix.com.au/Product/Detail.aspx?p=45&id=47

That was a fun day.

[Coytee]

I dont have any pictures of the rear view of the 402. I can get one later on when I get home....IF you promise to not laugh at all the dust I'm sure has collected there by now.

I do not know the cost of a 510 but, I 'think' it's about $750/each. This would again, be qualified to a domestic purchase and would be the horn an driver. I don't think Klipsch will sell just the horn alone nor the driver alone.

The mounting tray for the 402 is simply a (think baseball) "home plate" shaped piece of plywood. On this black plywood is a vertical metal arm that allows you to adjust the 402 slightly up or down. This is attached in the rear. The front of the horn is simply attached with a couple of 90 degree brackets. You can usually see these on the front of the horn in many pictures

You can barely see the tray under the horn here and the tabs in front

[Chris A]

Maybe I should just build some MWM's.....hahahaha sarcasm

dtel (a really good guy and a user on this forum) I think built his own MWMs. You can send him a message and ask how much difficulty he had. The Jamboree was a concoction (i.e., home brew) that I believe jwc (another user on this forum--almost as good as the former guy [6]) produced. I never heard the results of that exercise. (Good thing JC never had to marry any of his speakers - he'd be up to his ears in alimony payments...[6])

Also note the following thread as an alternative to the K-69A driver/K-510 horn JubScala. The P.Audio PH-4525 horn and BM-D750 driver may be your low-cost alternative and I think it will be available in your area since it is produced in Thailand. The issue will be balancing the setup. If you have Room EQ Wizard (REW -- which is free on one of the other HT forums), a moveable computer to your listening room, a Behringer ECM8000 microphone, and a phantom power USB device (such as a TASCAM USB, etc.) to drive/interface the microphone to your PC, then you have everything you need (assuming you don't already have this sort of capability in hand presently).

EDIT: Here is a link to the initial test results of the P.Audio 4525 horn and BM-D750 driver taken outside. Note that these test results should be updated very soon (i.e., the dips at 2.4 and 4.8 KHz are likely due to reflections from the ground surface where the measurements were taken).

Chris [:#]

[Chris A]

simply a (think baseball) "home plate" shaped piece of plywood

Do they have baseball down under? How about "rounders"?

Chris

[dtel]

dtel (a really good guy and a user on this forum) I think built his own MWMs

[][bs][bs][bs][bs][bs]..........

If you want to build MWM's send me an email, but I will warn you they are BIG.

[Coytee]

If you want to build MWM's send me an email, but I will warn you they are BIG.

Dtel... I can't hold it back anymore.

The finish on your MWMS's clash with the finish on your floor.

There, I said it....I now feel somehow cleansed.

I'm sure it's been whispered about behind your back and it's time someone finally let you in on the design faux pas. If you had any design taste at all you should remove those immediately from that location where they clash.

I'll even be a sport and offer to let them clash up here with my Plug Uglies. I doubt my wife will even tell a difference. Just let me know what day of the week you intend on delivering them, ok? I need to protect you from my dogs when you carry them inside for me and set them up.

Chloe wields a wickedly fast and slimy tongue.

[&]

Just let me know when......call me..... [<)]