MWM question for you guys who have them

[Coytee]

If you have played them outdoors, the question is, how far do you want to be from them for best sound?

Given that I have several different ingredients, I can do the following:

2 way active, MWM-S with K402/69 on top
2 way mixed, MWM-S with LaScala on top, active used to cross at ?? (80hz?) to the MWM and allow the passive in LaScala to take over
3 way active, MWM-S with LaScala on top with the K400/77 bypassed and my 402/69 on top of that

So, if you setup a 15' outdoor screen in a field with the MWM's on the side, how wide might you want them, how far back might you want to be for the different horns to blend together?

Also, having just now thought of it on the fly..... just how dumb or interesting would it be to go 3-way active with MWM on bottom, LaScala bass bin on top and K402/69 above that?? I literally thought of it as I was typing. Would the LaScala have any benefit in there to cover 'midbass'?? I got to thinking it might be a cheaper way to replace that MWM midbass horn since this would only be for specific events and not a fixed installation (where to store more stuff when I could use what I already have)

If I ever got another pair of singles and stacked them into MWM-double heights, does that change any of your thoughts on the above?

[DrWho]

Doesn't the xover point for the K402 stay about the same when crossed over to the lascala bass bin as it does the MWM? If you were moving to a 3-way for SPL reasons, then I would recommend a higher xover point for the K402 so as to help narrow the amount of bandwidth it needs to cover. Moving the xover up an octave should gain you about 6dB of thermal power handling (I think)....although you might reap a few more benefits since the diaphragm excursion would be less too.

On the MWM, I think you're mostly going to be excursion limited - especially when running a single, so netting more power handling by reducing the bandwidth isn't really going to net you any more SPL. Splitting the work load across the lascala and MWM should lower the distortion a bit, but I think the midrange would dominate the distortion since it's covering most of the spectrum on one unit.

[Coytee]

So, is all that a simple way to tell me to simply keep it with the MWM-S and K402/69?

The 'ole K.I.S.S. principle?

[dtel]

I would try the 402 alone at first, if there were an easy way to use the LaScala bass for mid bass that would be nice. That would probably take alot of work to get that sounding right ?

I can't be much help with how far to put them back because I use my two singles in the garage outside and there stacked.

If your screen is 15' how far back to you want to sit to get a good picture ?

You could just put the speakers just outside the sides of the screen and toe them in until you get the sound appearing to come from the middle.

If you were looking to have a bunch of people which requires more area for lawn chairs it would not be a big deal to move the MWM's wider and also back 20' or more, they will have MORE than enough sound than needed. Just remember to keep the toe in adjusted right.

It would take alot of work but you might want to do a practice run before hand. You could just mark off where you want the screen and move the speakers around to you get what you like. You could always put some markers out where everything goes to save the guessing later.

Use Brutus to move the MWM's........you should build yourself another pair later......and a big horn loaded sub.....you must have the wife moving to the dark side. [Y]

Just think, you could tell your wife you built a drive in theater just for her and instead of a back seat all you need is a blanket........I mean you do live in the woods, who would know ?

[twistedcrankcammer]

Richard,

I love you, but you are such a goober dude! [Y]

Put the 402 / K-69 on top and be happy until you find another single! I told you I am sitting on some to go look at!

A single MWM isn't going to output as well as a Jube Bass Bin, but you can attenuate the K-69.

If you truely feel you need the additional output you can borrow a pair of my MWMs, just drive over [au] and get them and bring them back after the party [pi] [<)] when you can!

Roger

[ClaudeJ1]

If you have played them outdoors, the question is, how far do you want to be from them for best sound?

Given that I have several different ingredients, I can do the following:

2 way active, MWM-S with K402/69 on top
2 way mixed, MWM-S with LaScala on top, active used to cross at ?? (80hz?) to the MWM and allow the passive in LaScala to take over
3 way active, MWM-S with LaScala on top with the K400/77 bypassed and my 402/69 on top of that

So, if you setup a 15' outdoor screen in a field with the MWM's on the side, how wide might you want them, how far back might you want to be for the different horns to blend together?

Also, having just now thought of it on the fly..... just how dumb or interesting would it be to go 3-way active with MWM on bottom, LaScala bass bin on top and K402/69 above that?? I literally thought of it as I was typing. Would the LaScala have any benefit in there to cover 'midbass'?? I got to thinking it might be a cheaper way to replace that MWM midbass horn since this would only be for specific events and not a fixed installation (where to store more stuff when I could use what I already have)

If I ever got another pair of singles and stacked them into MWM-double heights, does that change any of your thoughts on the above?

I had LaScalas on top of 4 single MWM's for a while........not recommended..........2 singles under LaScalas are perfect, that way you won't raise the horns up so high and have to turn them upside down like I did. I think having 4 K-43's in 2 different pairs of horns (midbass/bass) like that is really the best.. The "best of the bunch" for me would be MWM, LaScala for Midbass, and cross to a 402/K-69 with proper EQ at about 600-700 Hz., provided the LaScala had K-43's in them, since the BL product is higher and it puts out a superior midbass sound in that cabinet over the K-33, which is wasted in that short horn IMHO, where you give up the midrange blend to try to get a few Hz. out of too short of a horn for bass (La Scalas have always been bass deficient, and I used them in a DJ system for years, so experiences support this) I live with all the possible combinations in my home for over 2 years before I got a straigth axis midbass to replace the LaScala bottom. I would cross the MWM to the LaScala at around 150 Hz-180 Hz.which helps tame the peak there bit. That way the MWM can really do a clean job with the bottom 2 octaves.........but you don't need 4 MWMs, it's a waste..... you are better off with a LaScala which has it's peaks in different spots and blends much better (as a shorter horn with 2 folds also) with any midrange you choose below 800 hz.

[ClaudeJ1]

Here was the new improved, a few generations down........using a LaScala bottom instead of the straight Axis Peavery MB-1's shown here. EQ'd K402's will do as good or better job than the big JBL's which I got real cheap, so do that for a killer 3-way if you go active.so run the LaScala from about 150 to 600 Hz, so the MWMs and the LaScala together will cover about 4 octaves of High Definition BASS.

[Coytee]

you are such a goober dude!

Is a goober dude sort of pre-troll or is it more advanced? [:^)]

I will admit that I might need you to refresh me via email/phone about those details. I hung up a little confused as to the exact details.

[:$]

[Coytee]

2 singles under LaScalas are perfect, that way you won't raise the horns up so high and have to turn them upside down like I did

Claude, this might not change your thoughts at all...but this is not for a permanant installation. This would be for movie night out in the field so I don't necessarily think height would be a major issue.

My parts at hand that I could use to play around with would be:

2 full and passive LaScalas
2 single MWM cabinets
2 K402/69's

I'm not willing to drag the Jubilee bass bins outdoors like that so they will stay inside.

We'd setup for movie.... and afterwards, drag everything back in.

I read an old post by you where the K33 was the original woofer for the MWM. According to Roy, the 43 would go louder (I presume at the application of more power)

Would you change your thinking when using these outdoors? I don't think these will ever see any real use indoors, the Jubilee's are big enough. These things would swallow my whole room.

[ClaudeJ1]

2 singles under LaScalas are perfect, that way you won't raise the horns up so high and have to turn them upside down like I did

Claude, this might not change your thoughts at all...but this is not for a permanant installation. This would be for movie night out in the field so I don't necessarily think height would be a major issue.

My parts at hand that I could use to play around with would be:

2 full and passive LaScalas
2 single MWM cabinets
2 K402/69's

I'm not willing to drag the Jubilee bass bins outdoors like that so they will stay inside.

We'd setup for movie.... and afterwards, drag everything back in.

I read an old post by you where the K33 was the original woofer for the MWM. According to Roy, the 43 would go louder (I presume at the application of more power)

Would you change your thinking when using these outdoors? I don't think these will ever see any real use indoors, the Jubilee's are big enough. These things would swallow my whole room.

The easiest thing to do for you is to just use the full LaScalas and use the MWMs bins as bass extenders....I would cross them at about 100 Hz. You can even do it passively with just a choke if you wish. A Jantzen P-core from parts Express at about 6.8 Mh (about $20 ea.).

[twistedcrankcammer]

Here was the new improved, a few generations down........using a LaScala bottom instead of the straight Axis Peavery MB-1's shown here. EQ'd K402's will do as good or better job than the big JBL's which I got real cheap, so do that for a killer 3-way if you go active.so run the LaScala from about 150 to 600 Hz, so the MWMs and the LaScala together will cover about 4 octaves of High Definition BASS.

ClaudeJ1,

What did you do with your second pair of MWM singles, as that is what Richard wants eventually anyhow.

Roger

[ClaudeJ1]

Here was the new improved, a few generations down........using a LaScala bottom instead of the straight Axis Peavery MB-1's shown here. EQ'd K402's will do as good or better job than the big JBL's which I got real cheap, so do that for a killer 3-way if you go active.so run the LaScala from about 150 to 600 Hz, so the MWMs and the LaScala together will cover about 4 octaves of High Definition BASS.

Actually, one pair at a time, all 4 went to Chicago with Fyrpwr. I now single clone MWMs (see my Avatar), as that is all I need indoors. Outdoors, well yeah 4 of them would throw out an extra 3-4 db vs. 2, but I don't think it's an absolute necessity even there, since 100W of power though a single MWM bin outside will rattle one's chest at 50 paces.

ClaudeJ1,

What did you do with your second pair of MWM singles, as that is what Richard wants eventually anyhow.

Roger

[colterphoto1]

how loud do you NEED it to be? geesh!

Yeah keep it simple. MWM-S and 402/69A will do it, might need some height depending on how you have your outdoor theater set up (with your land I'd look for a bit of natural amphitheater if you have it and sit on the hillside).

If it's a theater you want, you'll need something for surrounds. Those LSI's should do the job nicely! []

Thinking of doing a test of a system over here. It'd be run out the side of Roadie's workshop (the single overhead door).

Mains- KP362 (15" three way) I have four matching and would use three across the front.

Subs- KP682 (dual 18")

Surrounds - KP250 on poles.

Side surrounds - in case I get really crazy- HIP, KP201, KP262 (but only the KP201's are pole mountable).

I'd just use a Yamaha receiver that I have as spare, using a K2 for sub power. Yeah that should do it.

Have some perforated screen material here I might mess around with. Have to build a suitable frame for it.

Rock on my Brother!

Michael

[colterphoto1]

I think Fyrpwr is getting close to having as much pro stuff as I do!

[twistedcrankcammer]

I think Fyrpwr is getting close to having as much pro stuff as I do!

Michael,

Your still king.... I just put in an order for steves old 4 MWM single bins and they should get here next week. [Y]

That will put me at the equivelant of 7 MWM double bins as soon as I put drivers back in those 4 singles...

Roger

[colterphoto1]

5 years ago I'd have never believed that we'd unearth so many MWM/MCM and KP600 systems, know how to bring them back to condition, and swap them around between us. What a Community we have here !

M

[Coytee]

To think that for 25 years, my LaScalas were my "big" speakers...

[dtel]

Coytee I have a good idea for you, [:|] really.

No [bs], since your probably going to store the MWM's under a porch or somewhere where animals can get to them you need to cover an opening.

Inside the first part of the horn which points to the rear, you need to cover with some hardware cloth 1/4" would probably work. this way nothing like mice or any animal can get to the driver and chew it up. A "somewhat" easy way to do this is to bend the edges of the hardware cloth around the outside and hold it down with a couple of screws with washers. If your worried about seeing it spray paint it black.

The dust is optional !

[colterphoto1]

To think that for 25 years, my LaScalas were my "big" speakers...

yeah, aint' it GREAT!

[dtel]

You can somewhat see it from the outside but if you were to spray it black that would help.

I didn't do a real neat job because I can hardly get my big butt that far in there to work, but it didn't need to be real neat for a workshop or outside.