Deang Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 The Spirit of Julian Hirsch Lives!! Remember -- amplifiers sound idenitical as well as CD players. ------------------ dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshT Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 Sheesh. Just as I expected, this post prompted an unprovoked attack by one poster against another! What a waist of time. The truth shall set you free. Yes, but this hobby does not contain many truths and falsehoods. Better to express things as opinions, and respect others who disagree. This message has been edited by JoshT on 03-30-2002 at 03:57 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 Ah c'mon Josh -- this thread ain't that bad. I like a little flame -- as long as it ain't me being flamed! FLAME ON! ------------------ dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers1517 Posted March 31, 2002 Author Share Posted March 31, 2002 Anyone remember years ago,when lots of audiophiles were marking around the outside edge of cds They were using some kind of green marker. They claimed the sonic benifits were incredible. I remember Stereo Review did a test. They fed the digital output into a computer and compared the cds bit by bit.there was no difference. People still swore they could hear a difference. Too bad comparing cds bit by bit is possible, look at all the fun we missed out on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curmudgeon Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 Ah, the old wire debate reincarnates again. Those three foot high flames really burn my arse! Here is an image for my wires of choice, they come in different lengths and colors, and truly have high-current capability! Not only will they make your speakers sound better but can start your Toyota if you leave your lights on. Their thickness alone will impress any audiophile, readily available from high-end auto parts stores and/or your car trunk. Van den Hul decals optional. This message has been edited by Audioholic on 03-31-2002 at 09:50 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 Audioholic, "Van den Hul decals optional." HEY I paid a steep increase for my decals! Mobile I agree with you on the cable issue. chambers1517, Your system is too brutish to make use of a better cable,and BTW construction workers who use a jackhammer should not evaluate cables. Take it easy all,another fuming post from TheEAR TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosskag Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 Anybody remember Bob Carver? This is a quote from the M-1.5t amp manual (350 watts+ per channel). "Ordinary lamp cord (zip cord), available in hardware stores in bulk, is suitable for speaker cables. The usual guage is No. 18, but for cable lengths of 30 feet or more we strongly recommend the heavier 16 guage. It is OK to use extra large speaker cables offered in the zip cord (twin lead), i.e., monster cable and similar configurations may also be used, but we advise against the coaxial or braided type of cable, which is expensive, may lead to instability, and, in our view, non-beneficial" Carver M-1.5t (amp) Carver CT-7 (pre-amp/tuner) Klipsch Quartets (for now) Nakamichi Cassette Deck 2 Nakamichi CD Player 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 I wonder what he meant by 'instability'?f>s> ------------------ Cary AE-25 Superampf>s> Sonic Frontiers Line 1f>s> Anthem CD-1f>s> Klipsch RF7'sf>s> MIT/Monsterf>s> "Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get out."f>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosskag Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 Webster says...1 lack of stability; unstableness; specif.,a) lack of firmness or steadiness b)lack of determination; irresolution. 2 tendency to behave or react violently or erratically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 My vocabulary is fine -- I was wondering about the instability electrically speaking, as it related to the M-1.5tf>s> Must not be much of an amp if it can't handle a braided speaker cablef>s> ------------------ Cary AE-25 Superampf>s> Sonic Frontiers Line 1f>s> Anthem CD-1f>s> Klipsch RF7'sf>s> MIT/Monsterf>s> "Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get out."f>s>c> This message has been edited by deang on 03-31-2002 at 09:21 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosskag Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 OUCH!...I think I've been poked by deang!.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 Intability,hmm The amp linearity would be compromissed?Someting along these lines.What else At least put some Siltech decals on the generic lamp cord I know it makes me feel a whole lot better TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUNDJUNKIE Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 Makes my EARS feel better too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 LOL - yea...but you 'poked' me first s>f> ------------------ S Frontiers/Anthem CD-1f>s> Cary AE-25 SuperAmpf>s> Sonic Frontiers Line 1f>s> Marantz DV-7010f>s> Klipsch LF-10f>s> Klipsch RF7'sf>s> MIT/Monsterf>s> Toshiba 36"f>s> Inside every small problem is a large problem struggling to get outf>s>c>-- 2nd Law of Blissful Ignorancef>s>c> This message has been edited by deang on 03-31-2002 at 11:32 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosskag Posted April 1, 2002 Share Posted April 1, 2002 No offense intended deang... My original reply was in support of chambers1517's post. I don't think it makes that much difference what type wire (cable) is used for speakers and apparently Bob agrees but these are only opinions and you know what they say about that. (opinions are like *******s, everybody has one) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted April 1, 2002 Share Posted April 1, 2002 What Bob meant by "instability" is that some amps exhibit non-linear behaviour into some combinations of frequency and impedence; for example, a speaker or combination of speaker and speaker cable that presents a highly capacitive load at very high frequency drives some tube amps nuts. They start to oscillate, a situation where the negative feedback loop that controls distortion and output impedence gets, er, farbled up (positive phase shift of capacitive impedence shifts negative feedback timebase sufficiently that intended cancellation of distortion becomes positive reinforcement of distortion), and the amp starts to wildly swing between positive and negative output voltages at extremely high frequencies, resulting in all of the smoke in the amp escaping, thus rendering it powerless. For an example of an otherwise well engineered amp that exhibits a mild susceptability to high frequency instability, check out the Stereophile review of the Hovland Sapphire power amplifier at http://www.stereophile.com/fullarchives.cgi?535 Ray ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Ray's Music System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUNDJUNKIE Posted April 1, 2002 Share Posted April 1, 2002 I think that's what you call "meeting the Barkhausen criteria". The product of the forward open loop gain X(multiplied) by the closed loop feedback is greater or equal to 1(unity) at a phase angle of zero! Voila...you have an oscillator! Hence, what I meant by:...heavy gauge, but most importantly, the +/- wires are spaced far apart as to minimize the effect on one another. (MINIMUM CAPACITANCE) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted April 2, 2002 Share Posted April 2, 2002 Oh no - not cables again!!!! OK - FWIW: I did not believe cables could make a difference. I had my Heresy's connected to my Accuphase E211 using Monster cable (4mm diameter) cut into 2 lengths of 3 metres each (about 9 foot). An audiophile friend who does believe in cables brought round some Synergistic silver cables for my to try. These cables were the same length but thicker than the originals. We connected the silver cables (using bananas) to speaker B on the Accuphase and the old Monster cables to speaker A (directly screwed in). Using the speaker switch on the amp we started up some music (I think Dire Straits Private Investigations on CD). I sat in my listening position he in front of the amp so I could not see him switch (he of course knew which cable was which so this was not a proper blind test). He pressed the button - and I jumped out of my chair. The difference was night and day. We repeated the test just twice more and I handed over a ludicrous amount of money on the spot. This was not a subtle difference. I thought he was fooling me and doing something else - he wasn't. Now maybe there was something wrong with my original speaker cable (he swears there isnt) I dont know, but since that day I have never been able to understand why people claim there is no difference and why no-one seems to be able to prove difference in a DBT. On the other hand in DBT's it seems you can prove all CD players sound the same, all SS amps sound the same, all interconnects sound the same, Maxell tapes sound as good as CD's.....either we are all being ripped off big-time, or, there is something fundamentally wrong with dbt testing. I vote the later and site Schroedingers cat as my scientific evidence. ------------------ My System: http://aca.gr/pop_maxg.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted April 2, 2002 Share Posted April 2, 2002 Maxg, congratulations. The truth has set you free. Keith Nice set up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barista Posted April 2, 2002 Share Posted April 2, 2002 Great post chambers1517...Lol... Yes, a heavy debate that has raged since the beginning of Hi-Fi Time, but this thread has kept me laughing from beginning to end. Especially the Jumper cables. LOL, Ill have to get a pair of those! I don't think I've seen this brought up since I started visiting this forum, so it's new to me, but something I have debated with myself over many times. I always keep an open mind. If I find a speaker wire that sounds any different (Better or worse) then I would be the first to believe. However I have not. I also have never had ACCESS to any high end speaker connects to do my own personal testing on, so I'm not much of a count. Ive debated the subject with a few colleagues who are Electronic Engineers (Not affiliated with Hi-Fi), and every one of them seem to come to the same conclusion; Given your not using a conductor that has a high circular-mil rating, the size of the wire is capable of carrying the load, and the length of the wire stays relatively short, there will be no perceivable difference in signal. Can one wire sound different than another? Whos to say that manufactures dont bury some type of EQ filters in their interconnects to alter the sonic characteristics? Thus giving Wire Company ABC that ABC sound. Given the size of some interconnects, you could just about bury a small tube amplifier in there. Does that make it a better wire? Depends. Is linearity your goal? If you are running a tube amp, obviously not, as tube amps are far from linear circuits. Most tube amps offer an average .7% THD, something unheard of in SS, but thats not why people listen to them (Myself included). Some sonic qualities, as unnatural as they may be, are pleasing to some listeners. The more I study this subject, the more I realize that quality is subjective to the listener. I would encourage every hobbyist to come to their own conclusions via personal experimentation, as this is the path that is half the fun! I would also like to add, that this weekend I will be picking up a dual channel Sencore Oscilloscope with a resolution up to 100Khz. One of my main subjects of personal study will be the effects of audio signals (Audio is nothing more than simple AC BTW) through various types, brands, and sizes of wire (As well as testing the linearity of some of the amplification circuits Ive been dabbling with). I would be happy to do any type of analysis on any interconnects (I would of course return them in same condition on a predefined date). Anyone interested in this type of study, test plans, etc dont hesitate to message me. Personally, I am very excited to see some results. ------------------ Barista T. Bill My Rig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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