Stig Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 John Warren, Earlier in this thread you said you did not know of another bass horn from University other than these two "Classic" models. It got me thinking. Ten or so years ago I found a University rearloaded horn in a do-it yourself book of some kind. The book was from an A-Z series from 50's, early 60's. The basshorn was a dualpath design that used the corners for the final flare. It used 2 twelves with the Cobraflex mid but can't remember the tweet. It stood approx. 48" tall. They did not specify a model name. It just said something like "copyright University". I saw this at the library, made a copy, but now can't find it. I have never seen this horn again or heard it mentioned on any horn site. I do remember it used 2 12's though. Does this ring a bell at all? Stig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Excuse my question but my uncle manages a cabinet making company, they make kitchen, bath room, and home theater cabinets costing from $40,000 to $1,000,000, so obviously the craftsmen are pretty talented. Anyways, he said that he would happily get his guys to make 4 cabinets for me to the designs of yours at cost. About how much did it cost you? If they build the cabinets, is it possible for me to put in the large woofer and the horn tweeter later, along with the crossover? Ok, so i have seen the plans for this at http://www.geocities.com/loudspeakerguru/, but they seem to be mostly the audio part of the design, but for building just the body of the cabinets, are there any basic draw ups? what woofer and tweeter(squawker?) can i use? I don't have much money to spend on this so no real expensive things, and this is not to compete with the Klipsch horns or yours, just something better than what I have now, Yamaha NS-6's haha. Basically, how much and what woofer and squawker and crossover, basic blue print of the cabinet design, can i put the speakers and crossover in after the cabinets are built? what kind of wood did you use? does it matter? any insulation to put in there, or just put some sort of soft poly in the joints to prevent shaking and eventually rattle... thanks so much Q-Man! ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted April 24, 2002 Author Share Posted April 24, 2002 Stig-Yes, I have the plans. This is an early design circa late 40s. It is a 3-way corner positioned enclosure with (2) 6200 12", (1) cobra-12 mid, (2) 4402 tweeters. Not a real *horn*. The rear waves exhaust into the corner of the room ala "Baronette". The woofer fronts radiate directly into the listening area. It was not a production model. Very large, heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 OK, Folks... I figured this thread is the best place to ask about this...please take the time to check out eBay item # 1347657227. I would like to know what type of speaker this really is...supposedly a University...the drivers shown inside of the cabinet are gorgeous old pieces...can anybody here tell me what they are?...what the design of this speaker is like?...I see lots of baffles and insulation, but it is difficult to figure out the cabinet design from the given pics....inquiring minds want to know!!! BTW, this item appears to be EXTREMELY underbid at this time!!!! Thanks for any help in answering my questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted April 25, 2002 Author Share Posted April 25, 2002 The drivers are University. tweeter 4401. mid H600 compression driver?. woofer? enclosure is not familiar design to me, could be DIY. University drivers are clearly marked. The labels look large to me in the blurry photos yet seller doesn't know the manufacturer(?). I'd steer clear, seller is either an idiot or just too lazy to bend over and read them (likely both). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 John Warren, Thanks for the info. Personally, I am a bit strapped for cash right now, since I just got a deal on some LaScalas...but, I posted that for two reasons...to find out just what the speaker cabinet design was all about(my passion is building speaker cabinets, and in that passion I like to understand the designs, baffling involved, bends of horns, etc)...and the other reason being that at less than 40 bucks(so far), plus shipping, there may be some who frequent this forum seeking the particular drivers in the cabinet(they sure look nice and clean from the pics), if not the cabinet itself...and, like you, I believe that the owner has those "qualities" you mention, but often those particular "qualities" in a seller allow a buyer to escape with a desired item at a ridiculously low price...Just a thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted April 26, 2002 Share Posted April 26, 2002 This message has been edited by Q-Man on 04-26-2002 at 09:51 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted April 26, 2002 Share Posted April 26, 2002 Justin, I don't remember exactly, but I think it took 5 sheets of plywood to build the pair. Since your uncle manages a cabinet shop, they can easily figure out the quanity when they lay out the parts on a cut sheet for the best yeild. Your uncle will also have access to a varity of plywood. They will probably all ready have some 9 to 11 ply cabinet grade plywood in stock. Cabinet grade means that it will be stright and smooth so it can be easily laminated or veneered. This type of plywood will cost your uncle 35 to 45 dollars a sheet. If you were to order it at a Home Depot type store you would pay more like $50.00 to $60.00 a sheet. The veneer will cost you 40 to 90 dollars a sheet. I used a cheap 7 ply plywood to build the one in the pictures. I did this because I wasn't sure if I would like the way it sounded. As I said, this is a fine sounding bass horn . So build it with a good quality 11 ply plywood. Your uncle may also use HDF board. This board is good for speakers, but I don't like it, because of it's poor joint holding ability, and it's too darn heavy. All the drivers, horns, and crossovers go into any speaker after the speaker box is compleated. I only put the woofer in mine before completion for picture sake. This way you could get a better idea of what it looks like. I used the University speakers mentioned eariler in the post. I also tried it loaded with LaScala parts as also mentioned earlier. You need a low fs woofer , below 25Hz. Email me your address and I send you a copy of the plans. Let your uncle have at it. Q. ------------------ Q-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted April 27, 2002 Share Posted April 27, 2002 thanks a ton QMan, you have mail also, can i use solid wood? i have access to large peices of cheery, oak, pine, and mahogany, could any of these be used instead of plywood, or would that be an overkill? i am thinking it would be an overkill, especially if i am trying to keep the cost down I can not wait to start this project! should be lots of fun. thanks so much, once again! ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted April 27, 2002 Share Posted April 27, 2002 Justintx, As a long-time cabinetry man, I would sincerely suggest you stick to a high quality plywood for this project. Plywood is simply more dimensionally stable than solid woods. It doesnt tend to shrink and swell nearly as much and will not check/crack/split or warp/twist/bow over time. You always have the option of using fine-veneered plywoods if you have a desire for those veneers...or you can have the finished cabinet veneered in the wood of your choice....but I advise you to stick with a good grade plywood. ------------------ If you want to send a private message, or have already done so, be aware I have not as yet been able to retrieve them. Send e-maill instead, please...just note Klipsch forum in the heading so it doesn't get deleted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted April 27, 2002 Share Posted April 27, 2002 HDBRbuilder, justin_tx_16 is my pseudo name, but you can call me Justin Yeah, i began to think about that too, especially since I live in Texas and have so much humidity. I went to our hardware store out by my house, I saw that Lowes has 5-ply sheets of ply wood, like 6x3, and it is $5 a sheet. So, I will see what the thicker stuff costs, should be pretty decent, and work with that. The 7 or 11 ply seems like it would be really thick, how thick is the 7-ply? I think that that is all I will personally need. I want to make a 4 speaker system out of this, would I need a subwoofer? I don't think I would, just for music, at least for now. I mean, that woofer seems to be able to do the job, did you say it goes to 25Hz? what dB level is that at? I am going to put these in our pool house. In it we have a room that is about 16x20, and I am going to make a small listening area out of that space, should be pretty nice. So, they won't ever have to get REAL loud since the room is, well the listening area at least, pretty small, 13x15 probably, and I can make a fake wall if you think I need to. Where would you recommend that I get the speakers? How much would they cost, along with the speakers, and crossover. Or is there perhaps a kit? Anyone know of anything else I could be forgetting to mention? Thanks again QMan! ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted April 28, 2002 Share Posted April 28, 2002 We are talking about 3/4" thick plywood. The thickness doesn't change with the number of plys ( layers of plywood). These individual layers change in thickness to total the 3/4" thick finished product.The more plys withen the 3/4" thick sheet, the more stable the sheet is. This bass horn doesn't go down to 25Hz, it drops off at 40 to 45Hz. I said you need to load it with a 25fs or lower woofer to achieve the 40Hz in the bass horn. Q. ------------------ Q-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted April 28, 2002 Share Posted April 28, 2002 Justin, Course description: Plywood 101. Standard FULL-sheet sizes for plyood are 4'x8'. Q-man's speaker is made from 3/4" THICK plywood. In 4'x8' sheets of 3/4" plywood, you can find it made with 5 plys (not nearly the best for what you are planning to build); 7 plys (which in a cabinet-grade plywood has 5 interior plys and two thinner outer veneer plys for a total of 7); and 9 plys (which is the most dimensionally stable of plywood made in North America, but also in a cabinet-grade it is the most expensive!!) There is one more option: Baltic Birch plywood, which comes from Russia, is METRICALLY-SIZED, and is most commonly available in approximately 5'x5' sheets, with a thickness of just about 1/32" UNDER 3/4", and has a total of ELEVEN equal thickness plys....BY FAR THE MOST STABLE OF ALL! It is very hard, making it tough on saw blades, router bits and such. It will virtually last forever ( I can attest to this, since I made an UNPAINTED canoe rack from some, and the rack has been out in the weather for over 10 years and has yet to have a SINGLE ply separate...yes, I live in AR!!!). BUT ....it costs about 55+ bucks a sheet!...and remember the sheets are SMALLER! Also, for your intended use, this may be your best bet since it will be exposed to very high humidity close to the pool!!! But!!!...it is generally not found with a nice figure to the outer veneer-plys, and MAY have "footballs" in it (where little football shaped plugs have been inserted when a knot or other irregularity has been cut out)...but if you plan to have the speakers laminated or veneered it poses no problem. Now, I don't know what plywood YOU are talking about at just 5 bucks a sheet, but it isn't what you will be wanting, trust me!!! Even a 4'x8', 3/4" 7-ply birch cabinet-grade is around 45+ bucks a sheet on a good day! The 7-ply cabinet-grade birch comes with inner plys of either birch or poplar. Poplar is cheaper, but the birch is better. I hope this helps some. P.S. Don't Use PINE plywood, you will regret it!!! ------------------ If you want to send a private message, or have already done so, be aware I have not as yet been able to retrieve them. Send e-maill instead, please...just note Klipsch forum in the heading so it doesn't get deleted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty65 Posted April 28, 2002 Share Posted April 28, 2002 HDBR I meant to ask you this on another post, but it fits here. I think you said Klipsch uses plywood with a poplar core, it that the same as saying that the interior plys are made of poplar, not that the interior of the plywood is solid poplar. Hope this question makes sense. Thanks for the help. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted April 28, 2002 Share Posted April 28, 2002 Dan, I can understand your confusion over this. When I worked at Klipsch, the plywood used for the LaScala, and for the sides/top/bottom of the DECORATOR style Heresys and Cornwalls, and for the front panels and tops of DECORATOR Style K-horns was 3/4" thick Birch 7-ply plywood. The interior plys of this plywood were also of BIRCH. This is the same cabinet=grade plywood used by quality cabinet-makers today. Now, for ANY of the panels that were "fine" veneers, such as black walnut, oak, mahoghany, rosewood, ebony, etc., the panels were POPLAR LUMBER-CORE plywood. To see the difference look at it like this: 1. picture a panel made like a butcher block is, with the boards laid out side by side and their ends pointing north and south and edge-glued together. This would represent the POPLAR LUMBER CORE. 2 then take a thin sheet of birch veneer and glue it onto this butcher block, with the direction of the grain pointing east and west. 3. flip the entire thing over and glue another thin sheet of birch to the other side, with the grain pointing east and west. 4. now you have a lumber core with one layer of veneer on either side. 5. next, glue one more sheet of birch veneer on JUST one side of this, with its grain running NORTH and SOUTH instead of east and west. 6. now flip the entire thing over and repeat step 5. but instead of using a birch sheet of veneer, use oak, or black walnut, or rosewood, or ebony, etc. 7. you now have what we used for the fine-veneer panels of the cabinets..... a poplar lumber core fine veneer plywood....the CORE of the plywood is SOLID POPLAR LUMBER instead of a bunch of plys, but the SKIN is a double thickness of thin veneers on each side of that core. Does that make sense? ------------------ If you want to send a private message, or have already done so, be aware I have not as yet been able to retrieve them. Send e-maill instead, please...just note Klipsch forum in the heading so it doesn't get deleted. This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 04-28-2002 at 10:39 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted April 28, 2002 Share Posted April 28, 2002 5 ply birch and 7 ply birch cabinet grade cost $35 and $47 respectively per sheet at Lowes. MDF costs only $16, and I think I will go that route since i am not going to stain it anymore (going for a sleek modern look) and it is very dense. How about this for the boards? They have 11 ply, it was aroun $70 a sheet, ouch. I don't need that anyways. Don't get me wrong, I want some great speakers, but don't want to spend tons of money on them, if I can avoid it. I went to parts express for some woofers and tweeters. but I am lost in all the bussle Can y'all give me some names and prices for it because at this point, I am getting very lost, very fast haha. I don't need something to beat a Klipsch Heritage speaker, but I do want something that I can show off without worry that my friend will compare it to is car system LoL, or for my cousin to say his parents MartinLogans kill it, even for the cost. So, with that I leave you to... do whatever you want to do cheers! ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted April 28, 2002 Share Posted April 28, 2002 Justin, FYI...if you try to use MDF, you will REGRET IT! IMHO...the most practical use for MDF is trashcan lining! Nuff Said! ------------------ If you want to send a private message, or have already done so, be aware I have not as yet been able to retrieve them. Send e-maill instead, please...just note Klipsch forum in the heading so it doesn't get deleted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted April 28, 2002 Share Posted April 28, 2002 quote: Originally posted by HDBRbuilder: Justin, FYI...if you try to use MDF, you will REGRET IT! IMHO...the most practical use for MDF is trashcan lining! Nuff Said! really? why? I have always been told that it is great for acoustical things. Dang. ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted April 29, 2002 Share Posted April 29, 2002 Justin, Look at how Q-man's horn is constructed...in the photos..with screws... and miter joints at the angles; with butt-joints everywhere else. Then go to the 2-channel audio system section of this forum. Click on my posting titled: "The Adventures of Engineer Jim". READ IT!...pay particular attention to the part about the "MDF vs. Plywood Debate" when you get down to it. Q-man, himself, noted early in this thread that he was building that horn out of inexpensive PLYWOOD first, in order to see how it goes together, while planning to build it out of better plywood after testing his prototype...IF HE WANTED TO USE INEXPENSIVE MATERIALS, THEN WHY DIDN'T HE USE MDF FOR THE PROTOTYPE? If you have very little experience in woodworking, I can understand your confusion, but, I have well over 35 years of woodworking experience...and I am SURE your own woodworker uncle would agree with me (ESPECIALLY, once he sees how the horn is assembled!!) that MDF is the LAST thing you would want to build these out of UNLESS you were one helluva woodworker, and wanted to spend a helluva lot of time AND money in the construction!! Even then, the first time the MDF gets wet it will turn to "oatmeal" and be ruined!!....Poolhouse, remember? Lastly, keep this in mind about the low price of MDF: "You get what you pay for!" ------------------------------------------------------ If you want to send a private message, or have already done so, be aware I have not as yet been able to retrieve them. Send e-maill instead, please...just note Klipsch forum in the heading so it doesn't get deleted. This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 04-29-2002 at 02:10 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted April 29, 2002 Share Posted April 29, 2002 Ok, so I am going to go with the ply wood now. dang the cost though but don't want to screw up anything this new into the game, lets wait till it is more expensive and more complicated to fix hehehe. still though, since I am not going for a wood finish, and not wanting to put klipsch out of business, can i use 7 ply or 5 ply regular plywood, not cabinet grade? i am going to paint these things eitherway. thanks again for saving my arse ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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