Getting my first pair of K-Horns...

[fan4fan14]

....and they are for a dedicated HT set-up. I have been a BIG KEF fan for decades and for years have planned to use a pair of 107's as fronts, and perhaps a pair of the 103's for rears. Big problem - they were not made for the demands of cinema. If I leave them in place I will probably damage them. I am running a Nakamichi Pa-7 for the mains, a PA-5 for the rears. I just don't thnk British loudspeakers are made for that kind of shock.

So I am picking up a cherry pair of Klipshorn's this weekend (87's). My question is would a pair of Forte's be a good match for the rear surrounds? I really only have room back there for a small footprint speaker (plus the K-Horns are bankrupting me). I would also consider the Heresy's for the price point and I suspect a similar bullet-proofness. And any advice on a center (C-7?) would be appreciated.

Looking forward to hearing LOTR (Lord of the Rings) at the proper volume levels!

Thanks, John

[sunburnwilly]

Enjoy the KHorns ! That being said to get what your looking for you will need a big center ; Belle or LaScala . I tried hard to get a Heresy to work for me but when things hit the fan in a movie my Belles would absolutely overwhelm the little Heresy . Disparity in efficiency levels was surely the culprit . Forte's will be fine for the surrounds but in an HT set up the center is the most important part of the puzzle .

[DTLongo]

Congrats on your new Klipschorns and welcome to the Khorn priesthood. Based on my own experience, a couple of things to anticipate. Yes, they will play very very loud with no strain. But Khorns are very amplifer-sensitive. They can sound anemic in the bass with one amp and great with another. Especially for home theater, don't rule out wanting to use them with one or preferably two good subwoofers. Also, again in my experience, I found Klipschorns "wasted" on home theater. One's eyes and ears tend to follow the action on the screen and the sound becomes secondary, albeit exciting for booms, gunshots, explosions and the like. My Khorns are now in a basically audio-only setup (see signature) where they can really shine in their own right.

Have fun and plse. give us your impressions of your new babies after you get them set up.

[dtel]

If it were me I would set it up both ways, why not have it all. You could use it as a great 2 ch setup while you put the rest together, you have to admit NOT a bad place to start at all !

We use two seperate sets of speakers and amps for ht and 2 ch in the same room, except for movies I tend to listen much more in 2 ch, suprised me also.

[tragusa3]

I have a different opinion than that of DTLongo. I don't think it's wasted at all!

I agree with others, my system didn't jump off the charts until the LaScala was added as a center channel. I'm using Heresies for the rear, and they do a fine job there. If you had space for the Forte's, they might be an improvement, but I doubt it. Again, go the extra mile to find a LS or Belle center even if that means a compromise on the surrounds.

[Coytee]

I would also consider the Heresy's for the price point and I suspect a similar bullet-proofness. And any advice on a center (C-7?) would be appreciated.

I'm just ganging on since I've nothing new to add. If it were me I'd hold back on a center until you can get a Belle or (more likely) a LaScala and do it 'right'. The Khorns will be very difficult for another speaker to match. If you get the C7 I would only expect you to be back after several months bemoaning your disatisfaction with the centers performance and 'what should you do?'. Our answers won't change (Belle/LaScala)

You might even find yourself flabbergasted with just the Khorns playing movies. Meaning, their dynamics might be such an improvement to you that you will be tickled with them alone WITHOUT a center channel. This is what I've been doing and although I plan to create this HT monster downstairs (I even have the LaScala parked in my garage) I'm simply tickled enough with my 2-channels doing everything that I have no drive to put the other parts together.

[psg]

Any of the smaller Heritage and like speakers will do for surrounds. Heresy II are very affordable on the used market and work very well.

For the center, my order of preference would be : La Scala, Belle, vertical Cornwall, Heresy III, Heresy II, Academy. I (also) was only really satisfied when I used a La Scala as center. I had a Heresy II before that and it stained under the higher dynamics parts (you could tell sound was coming from a loudspeaker).

I use the KHorns for two-channel music as well, in the same room. They are around 20 feet apart (or is it closer to 22? Can't remember...).

[fan4fan14]

Thanks for all the advice, what a great forum! In no particular order:

I don't have room for something as large as a LaScala or a Belle in my center position. The customary "long skinny box"" that most centers seem to come in is what I originally envisioned as the center. It will have to be laid on top of a custom built cabinet and under the Panasonic 65" plasma. Since sensitivity isn't an issue for me (see next reply) won't any of the traditional newer Klipsch centers do? I do want something as "bullet-proof" (meaning it can crank waaay up there with no signs of stress as I expect the K-Horns to do).

Differences in sensitivity between fronts, rears, and center won't be an issue. I actually have three separate power amps being fed by three pre-amps all in the same cabinet. A Nakamichi PA-7 (200 wpc) w/ CA-7A for the K-Horns, a PA-5 (100 wpc) w/ CA-5 for the rears, and a Nakamichi 420 (50 WPC) w/ CA-5 dedicated as a mono center. So I can adjust all three to match at the beginning of the movie and not worry about sensitivity differences. I've had most of this Nak gear for decades and I really want to keep using it in my old fashioned way!

Finally I do have a Yamaha YST-SW800 as my subwoofer. I am currently looking for a second one to "stereo" them out but it does a great job now as a stand alone. It is self powered (1000 watts) and has a volume and slope cuttoff.

The 107's will go over to the house where they used to be. I am a bit of a KEF collector I'm afraid and have several pair of them. My faves are the 104/2's I bought new in '86. They are still perfect.

[psg]

I don't have room for something as large as a LaScala or a Belle in my center position. The customary "long skinny box"" that most centers seem to come in is what I originally envisioned as the center.

Then the Academy is what you seek, on the used market of course.

[Coytee]

It will have to be laid on top of a custom built cabinet

Is this cabinet already built?

I don't mean any disrespect to Peter but in my opinion, the Academy (and Heresy and then Cornwall.... in that specific order) would receive a "flunk" grade for center channel use with me. I had three Academy's with my LaScalas. I bought them at the direction of the dealer.

Flunk flunk and flunk. I sold all three of them.

If your custom cabinet isn't built yet then I'd see if I could (read "force the issue" and make it work) somehow fit at minimum a Cornwall in there (and I'd still not want a Cornwall if at alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll possible)

Could you bury a LaScala in the wall (as I'm doing for my rears), could you cut a LaScala top off, put some parts in the wall? Maybe use an AT screen?

When I was using an Academy for my center, my feeble memory says I had the gains on that channel maxed, and could still never get it to work right. Sort of like putting skinny wheels on the back of a top fuel dragster with the bazillion horsepower engine.... yeah "you have wheels back there" but they're going to get smoked by the relative performance of the engine. You need tires (center channel) that are up to the performance of the rest of the system.

Some will say (and I don't know this to be 100% true or only 80% true...) that the center is perhaps the most important speaker since it carries all the dialogue.

I would personally prefer to have NO center and make it work with a phantom than put an Academy or Heresy in the middle (might consider a Cornwall but I'd do so with hesitation.... others love theirs)

[SSnyder]

Some will say (and I don't know this to be 100% true or only 80% true...) that the center is perhaps the most important speaker since it carries all the dialogue.

Easy to test that it is NOT true>>>>unconect center and YO WILL STILL HEAR all DIALOG

[tragusa3]

You say you want a center that can "crank way up there" with your Khorns. There is no solution for that other than LS or Belle. Sorry. I've heard Khorns with an Acadamy center and it obviously works to some degree. I'm concerned however with your above comment. Look into split LS or give up the idea of the cabinet?

Sorry we sound inflexible. But it comes from experience.

[psg]

Some will say (and I don't know this to be 100% true or only 80% true...) that the center is perhaps the most important speaker since it carries all the dialogue.

Easy to test that it is NOT true>>>>unconect center and YO WILL STILL HEAR all DIALOG

at 20 dB down?

[psg]

It will have to be laid on top of a custom built cabinet

Is this cabinet already built?

I don't mean any disrespect to Peter but in my opinion, the Academy (and Heresy and then Cornwall.... in that specific order) would receive a "flunk" grade for center channel use with me.

Actually, I agree. It was dead last in my choices too. I was just trying to be positive.

But okay, I'll be honest. Why would you want an AV cabinet up front anyway? It distracting to have all those lights up front, and putting it elsewhere gives you so many options as far as center speaker. The idea of a split La Scala is great if the La Scala is too tall. In my own setup, I have inset a La Scala into the front wall and it looks great.

[Youthman]

Easy to test that it is NOT true>>>>unconect center and YO WILL STILL HEAR all DIALOG

That's because your receiver is now routing the center channel between the two mains.

[sunburnwilly]

"60 plasma stand .

[dtel]

That's because your receiver is now routing the center channel between the two mains.

Exactly, I have done this in the past and it is better than a center that can NOT keep up, like anything short of a LaScala or a Belle. With a under size center your front 3 main speakers are only as good as your center where most of the movie info comes from. Remember you set the volume on all the speakers to the same volume at the sitting position, so your Khorns will be turned down to accent and not out do whatever center you have, not good with a little center.

It's just a fact you will not be happy with anything less, it has been done many times here.

Think of this, you want the voices in a movie soundtrack to come from the center where the TV is, with Khorns in the corners where they belong the sound will sound like it is from the center no matter what you do anyway so the phantom mode is not really giving up anything unless your room is extra wide and it still works better than a weak center.

[dtel]

What Sunburn has done is the best, a perfect match across the front, a few year ago everyone here was talking about having three matching across the front, I took there advice, like Sunburn did and I found a 6 identical speakers and I have to say nothing compares to a perfect match. As the movie scene pans from front left to front right the sound is seamless, with a non matching center when someone walks From front left to the other side in a movie scene the voices change as they walk and the sound comes from different speakers it sounds different, as with all the other sound effects.

You don't need 6 exactly the same but the front 3 are really important. The reason people said Belle, LaScala is the midrange horn is the same on them and the Khorn, the K400 midrange horn, also the tweeter is the same on those three models.....and the bass also matches, folded horns. As close a match as you can get with different speakers.

[psg]

The reason people said Belle, LaScala is the midrange horn is the same on them and the Khorn, the K400 midrange horn, also the tweeter is the same on those three models.....and the bass also matches, folded horns.

Just to clarify, the Belle has the same mid-range compression driver, but not the same horn lens since the cabinet isn't deep enough to accomodate it.

[dtel]

The reason people said Belle, LaScala is the midrange horn is the same on them and the Khorn, the K400 midrange horn, also the tweeter is the same on those three models.....and the bass also matches, folded horns.

Just to clarify, the Belle has the same mid-range compression driver, but not the same horn lens since the cabinet isn't deep enough to accomodate it.

Your right, that's probably why the Belle is slightly different, thanks.