Looking for tube amp suggestions for Khorns

[jbone]

I apologize if I misread Speakerfritz post.

[muel]

Anything you buy, whether it is 50 years or 5 days old could have a problem. I accept that as a possibility and try to factor that into my budget considerations. I don't worry so much when there is a warranty involved but those 12 months can fly by pretty quick and that warranty is only as good as the company and their service rep. I'm not happy with how much I've wound up spending at times but paying attention to the advice found here has kept me more on track and with better equipment than I ever could have found (or afforded) on my own.

That said... I've said it before and I'll say it again... I'm loving that Scott 299! I have a hard enough time tearing myself away now. I can't imagine when/if I graduate to something better!

hmmm... Craig, you might want to watch for a PM. [^o)]

[Boydfp]

In addition to the tube amps already mentioned, I've heard of the following being used with Khorns:

Transcendent T16 (single or bridged)
Cayin A-88T (Integrated)
Cayin A-50T (Integrated)
Eico HF-81 (Integrated)
Latino ST-70 or ST-120

[LarryC]

They are probably pretty far outside your price range, but a few of us sat around last night listening to my Joule preamp and OTL amps, and ended up liking their great transparency and musical realism. It was odd -- I hadn't fired them up for many months because of many other distractions, and they didn't sound good until after a few hours of listening. I didn't think electronics had to be broken in again after long disuse.

My principal guest was very impressed with how quiet the electronics were. Some here know I'd had to deal with intractable buzzes and hums for several years. Someone finally clued me in -- a dimmer switch "for incandescent only" isn't compatible with transformer-based low-voltage overhead lights. It has to be for "electronic" lights. Lighting people don't always seem to know that.

The main reason for the low noise IMO is the unusually low gain in both the preamp linestage and the amplifier. The Joule preamp's linestage gain is only 4 or 11 db, rather than 20 db like most preamps. Linestage circuitry usually follows the volume control, and so can't be turned down if too high. Likewise, my OTLs have very low gain, needing over 2 volts for 100 watts out instead of the usual 0.5 to 1.5 v. The higher gain can send a lot of preamp-based hiss into the room.

Noise is an important factor IMO in how good the electronics sound and how well they fit into the system.

[whatever55]

Had I been able to get the SE-OTL sound with 100 watts behind it and XLR inputs, I'd be all over that like peanut butter on my dogs lips.

There is a model called "The Beast" I think it is 180 watts per channel...

[DanO55]

Excellent recommendation. Restored is the key point. Here is a shocker. I have run a wide variety of tube amps with my La Scalas. I find myself returning more often to a set of Heathkit W-4s. What! Heathkits!. Yep. The 5881 tube is a very nice sounding version of the 6L6. The W4s can be had for almost chump change. Easy to restore and maintain. About 20 watts which is more than enough for Klipsch. Or perhaps, a set of the W5s, well respected amp. Any how thats my 2 cents.

[Colin]

Posted JJ 239 infor here:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Audio-Tube-Amp/150506214964988

[NOSValves]

Excellent recommendation. Restored is the key point. Here is a shocker. I have run a wide variety of tube amps with my La Scalas. I find myself returning more often to a set of Heathkit W-4s. What! Heathkits!. Yep. The 5881 tube is a very nice sounding version of the 6L6. The W4s can be had for almost chump change. Easy to restore and maintain. About 20 watts which is more than enough for Klipsch. Or perhaps, a set of the W5s, well respected amp. Any how thats my 2 cents.

Yup W4's do sound pretty nice when firing on all cylinders.. I've restored a number on them being based in Michigan where Heathkit was originallly located. In fact I have a pair I bought for $100 like 8 years ago? at the very first Audio Karma Fest. Just like all the gear I have stored and stacked I just rarely find time to restore anything for myself!

[NOSValves]

They are probably pretty far outside your price range, but a few of us sat around last night listening to my Joule preamp and OTL amps, and ended up liking their great transparency and musical realism. It was odd -- I hadn't fired them up for many months because of many other distractions, and they didn't sound good until after a few hours of listening. I didn't think electronics had to be broken in again after long disuse.

My principal guest was very impressed with how quiet the electronics were. Some here know I'd had to deal with intractable buzzes and hums for several years. Someone finally clued me in -- a dimmer switch "for incandescent only" isn't compatible with transformer-based low-voltage overhead lights. It has to be for "electronic" lights. Lighting people don't always seem to know that.

The main reason for the low noise IMO is the unusually low gain in both the preamp linestage and the amplifier. The Joule preamp's linestage gain is only 4 or 11 db, rather than 20 db like most preamps. Linestage circuitry usually follows the volume control, and so can't be turned down if too high. Likewise, my OTLs have very low gain, needing over 2 volts for 100 watts out instead of the usual 0.5 to 1.5 v. The higher gain can send a lot of preamp-based hiss into the room.

Noise is an important factor IMO in how good the electronics sound and how well they fit into the system.

Larry your Joule gear like all high voltage electronic devices should be fired up once a month and allowed to warm up completely even if you are not going to be using it. Sitting idle for prolonged period is death to high voltage electronic devices like Tube amps! Yes the parts will reform after a long idle period. Every time they have to go through that reform process you have taking some of the life expectancy out of the capacitors.

Think about it this way. The capacitors in that amp are being subject to 0 volts to 400, 500, 600 Volts nearly instantly. The longer they sit idle the harder it is for them to survive that toucher.

[NOSValves]

Who would of thought that both Craig and Cut-throat both be posting in a thread that makes mention of S_T amps?!!??!!

I, too, am curious on what you are up to Craig.

Thanks

Cut-Throat,

Well I don't think I'll be filling that exact hole in the market place. The amp I have in mind will be my offering with Seul (Soul in craiglish ) with just a touch of T added..... Have I sparked your interest yet?

Craig

JJ

Wow missed this post... Yea it is kind of Ironic but realize what I have in mind is not exactly what Cut Throat is such a huge fan of (mind you I have no problem with his choices) I will take an entirely different approach.

You might be surprised how well Cut Throat and I have worked well together in the past. We made it through a project with lots of communication and hardly any nasty comments "once" LOL!!

Craig

[Colin]

The super-high efficiency and ultra low distortion of direct
connectivity horns is perfect for the sweet treble, imaging, soft clipping and
second-order harmonic distortion of tube amps.

Almost any good condition tube amp is going to sound great
with Khorns! In all but the most demanding situations, even flea-powered tubes will
be wonderful. Those situations include: extra large rooms, very loud hard rock,
very deep action movies and bass lovers who live for double-bass riffs as
strong as Colombian coffee.

All of the suggestions above are good ones. None of them
will give you tepid “background dinner music." All of them will provide
the intoxicating grab of music.

Unless they are refurbished, vintage tubes will give you irritating
humm's, crackles, pops, buzzes, flashes and funny smells.

Remember, one-third of the total power of a 75-piece
orchestra comes from the bass drum. (That is why the incidence of hearing loss
in classical musicians has been estimated at 4-43%, while rock musicians is
estimated at 13-30%.)

For this reason, I too prefer PASSIVE bi-amping with Khorns.
The woofer runs full-range. So I run a 60-watt, class A solid-state amp on the bass
bin. I use a 6-watt, class A tube amps on the mid and high end horns. I also
use a very deep and steep 24-dB crossover on a 1,500-watt (peak) sub-woofer. The
effect is the best of both worlds.

[LarryC]

Larry your Joule gear like all high voltage electronic devices should be fired up once a month and allowed to warm up completely even if you are not going to be using it. Sitting idle for prolonged period is death to high voltage electronic devices like Tube amps! Yes the parts will reform after a long idle period. Every time they have to go through that reform process you have taking some of the life expectancy out of the capacitors.

Think about it this way. The capacitors in that amp are being subject to 0 volts to 400, 500, 600 Volts nearly instantly. The longer they sit idle the harder it is for them to survive that toucher.

Thanks, Craig. I hadn't realized that. These amps are turned on by slowly cranking up a variac over about 10 seconds rather than instantly switching them on, which I hope is easier on them. I'll follow that advice from now on, to avoid extensive re-forming.

[DanO55]

I have become a Heathkit fan in the last couple of years. What are your thoughts on the W-6s, seen to go high value when they seldom surface. Sorry to mistrack this thread just wondering?

[NOSValves]

Larry your Joule gear like all high voltage electronic devices should be fired up once a month and allowed to warm up completely even if you are not going to be using it. Sitting idle for prolonged period is death to high voltage electronic devices like Tube amps! Yes the parts will reform after a long idle period. Every time they have to go through that reform process you have taking some of the life expectancy out of the capacitors.

Think about it this way. The capacitors in that amp are being subject to 0 volts to 400, 500, 600 Volts nearly instantly. The longer they sit idle the harder it is for them to survive that toucher.

Thanks, Craig. I hadn't realized that. These amps are turned on by slowly cranking up a variac over about 10 seconds rather than instantly switching them on, which I hope is easier on them. I'll follow that advice from now on, to avoid extensive re-forming.

Larry if you're starting the amps with a variac I'd just go at a much slower pace if you have not used the amp for months. Start at about 70 VAC for 15 minutes, then 80 for 5, 90 for 5 and so on until you reach 120V.

The variac will relieve the cpacitors of the instant full voltage slam.

[NOSValves]

Dan,

I prefer the W6's to any other Heathkit but if you are really happy with the Sonic performance of the W4 I would be hessitant to tell you to venture down that expensive road. The W4's have a very soft warm tone to them compared to the mighty W6... totally different goals in mind from Heathkit with the two products. When working properly the W6 does not sound like a vintage amplifier it truly has top to bottom transparent control over any reasonable speaker its attached too! Not saying one is good or bad just saying the difference is not subtle.

Craig

[LarryC]

Larry if you're starting the amps with a variac I'd just go at a much slower pace if you have not used the amp for months. Start at about 70 VAC for 15 minutes, then 80 for 5, 90 for 5 and so on until you reach 120V.

The variac will relieve the capacitors of the instant full voltage slam.

Thanks, Craig. The variacs (one each amp) may not work exactly like that -- I'm supposed to turn each one up to about 64 or 65, which I believe JE describes as "filament voltage," and let it stabilize there. More than that is too much. Jud once said to start at 55 if the amp is acting up, but has never mentioned stopping at less than that, or turning it up more slowly after long disuse.

The smaller tubes stay on all the time, btw.