Gerry19103 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Hello All! My name is Gerry and I'm looking for advice on speakers. I'm not terribly tech savvy but as a music teacher and classical organist, I do have a good set of ears .. which has proven to be a pain in the backside! I use my system for both movies and music. I listen to all types of music except for rap and old country western. I also listen to a lot of classical in general and classical organ in particular and while there are probably no people here who ever listen to pipe organs on their systems, I can tell you that they give speakers a work out like nothing else can. It seems that most of the speakers I've tried work well with movies - but I'm not satisfied with music in general. Here is a link to the specs of my AVR (listed on the right side of the page). The room isn't huge so I use it in 5.1, not 7.1. http://reviews.cnet.com/av-receivers/denon-avr-3805-black/1707-6466_7-30831156.html At present, I'm using and older set of Mirage OM series all the way around; I use one Klipsch sub for LFE and two other Klipsch subs on the front mains just to round our the bottom a little more nicely. I've tried some supposedly excellent Polk and KEF towers and it was the same as my Mirage ... excellent for movies but I'm just not satisfied with music. Another think I noticed about all three is that with music, they sound much better at high volume but whimpy at softer volumes. I thought perhaps it was my AVR despite the fact that it's one of Denon's top models in it's day but then I discovered something quite by accident: I tried a really old pair of Pioneer speakers with 12 in woofers from back in 70s and the sound was infinitely better and experienced a similarly better sound with a very old pair of KEFs. Both sounded so much better but I could never timber match them all the way around with a 5.1 or 7.1 system. The fronts sounded great but effect combined with the Mirage surrounds was just terrible. Guys, is it possible that the way these newer "tower" speakers are configured are simply better suited to movies than they are to music? Secondly, a friend suggested that I'd likely be really happy with Klipsch Heresy IIIs all the way around and I'm wondering what you folks thought of that? I wish there was a place where I could sample the Heresy III's but no one seems to set them up in audio displays / sound rooms. I looked at the rest in the Heritage series but they're out of my price range (especially times five!) and I wouldn't want to combine unmatched models. Does Heresy IIIs all the way around make sense and would they handle my AVR (again, a Denon 3805). Thanks so much for the input! ... Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted February 14, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 14, 2011 Welcome Yes 5 Hlll's would sound great, you have the subs already and yes your 3805 would be fine with these speakers. I don't know where you could go listen, some one maby up on the East coast could help with that. 5 matching speakers are a perfect setup in my opinion, I think you will love the sound of the Heresy lll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 As dtel stated, H3's would be great all around BUT you've got to have a sub to go with them. Especially since you stated you have a fondness for organ music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Just noticed that this was your first post. Welcome to the forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCliff Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 5 Heresey III's would be awesome especially with 3 subwoofers. I would think that fine tuning the 3 subs can be a major undertaking. But if you can get them set up right it should sound great. I would have this to say and I am no expert, but I do not like to listen to music on my HT setup. I prefer to go down to my basement and listen to music on my 2 channel setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry19103 Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 Hello Dtel, CECAA and Big Cliff - thanks so much for the welcome and advice!!! Dtel: I was reading your components and speakers ... I'm envious!! It seems like you have everything in the Heritage series! If you don't mind, I'd like to ask you another question: if I were able to locate a good set of used Cornwalls, would I be able to use the Heresys for the center and two rears? Would they be adequately "timber matched"? Like so many other people, I learnt the hard way that (to varying degrees), mix-matching seldom works out well; on occasion it can work but it often sounds like real crap ... if I could get two used Cornwalls, will the Heresys be compatible for the center and two rears? I've also noticed that it's quite easy to find used Heresy 2's ... would Heresy 2's work with two good used Cornwalls or am I taking my chances with that? Or would I be better off just buying 5 Heresy 3's? Five heresy 3's is about all by budget could handle. Cliff, I don't anticipate problems with the subs ... I use three subs now. I use the sub carrying the LFEs with more power than the others. I use the "line out" for the two fronts connected directly to the two subs but I don't use them with a great deal of power but rather only to round out and smoothen the low end of the two mains. I'm a classical organist and listen to quite a lot of organ music - before the days of powered subs, even the absolute best 15 in woofers just weren't adequate but there was nothing one could do about it ... you couldn't get the "depth" unless you really cranked the volume - very "soft" but very "deep" wasn't possible. A Bombarde pipe is 32 feet tall and about 11 inches in diameter ... depending on how you have your organ set, it's so soft that you can barely hear it, yet, your butt cheeks are vibrating and dust falls from every crack in the ceiling. Even with the best speakers, you can't get that without a sub on your two mains ... so, those two subs aren't loud at all. (Imagine what kind of sound you'd get from blowing into a 32 ft tall coke bottle LOL! ). I also know what you mean about switching amps and using two channels but fortunately, I'm able to use my amp strictly in two channel analog - it shuts off all unnecessary audio and video circuits and the filters are all bypassed; no rear speakers, center or sub. I'm told it's a pure, 100% analog signal but as I said earlier, I'm not all that tech savvy but with music, I do use it in that mode often. Thanks again folks (sorry for blabbing!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted February 15, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 15, 2011 No I don't have LaScala's or Klipschorn's, two of the best. [Y] I know 5 Heresy's would work. I am not positive about Cornwalls and Heresy across the front. I have Heresy 1 and two here, and Cornwall lll and I have never put them together to compare. We use different 2 ch and HT speakers so the others have never played together, never really thought about it before. [] But it would probably match just fine, but what would you really gain with the Cornwall's, unless you also used it for 2 ch also. To me the difference between a Cornwall and a Heresy is the bass more than anything else, and you have subs already. If I had Cornwalls and a heresy together I would set the Cornwalls to small anyway it wouldn't be that much difference between the two. Just one opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCliff Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Good luck on your set up. Being a little partial I would just add, that if you can get a pair of Chorus IIs used for the fronts go for it. I just love my Chorus IIs and they never cease to impress me. Now for those LOW LOW LOW organ tones may I suggest the following: (I have never been a fan of Klipsch subs)[6] http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12plus.cfm http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3-mk3.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angusruler Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 hi, and welcome! i have heresy I's and heresy II's in my HT setup, and i love them. definately need a sub...which you have covered...obviously! i'm with cliff, i listen to music with my 2 channel setup, cornwalls and a small tube hybrid amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry19103 Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 Every now and again, I toy with the notion of getting a 2 ch. tube amp. Would still use the same two fronts - it's just a matter of a switch. With musical instrument amplifiers, the difference in the sound of a tube amp is significant; I really notice it when I play guitar through this old Gibson tube amplifier a friend has. (I'm such a crappy guitarist though, anyone with ears would rather I stick to the amplified headphones I use when I'm in the mood to play guitar!) Guys, thanks again for the welcome and the advice. It will be about another two weeks before I'm ready to start buying but it gives me to time look around, get ideas, information etc. Tax return time is that one time all year to take that vacation or buy the new toy I'm otherwise to cheap to shell out for! I'd rather buy new than used but I don't mind buying used if I can get better for the same amount of money provided that the merchandise is all in good order. So, until the money is in my pocket, I'll keep looking around and getting information and then make my decisions depending on what's available when the time comes. Cliff, those two subs are beautiful - I particularly liked the SVS PB12. Audioholics really liked it too and they're my favorite reviewers. I have three subs now one the LFE and the two mains but I'll probably be getting rid of one of them when I get around to selling my Mirages ... it just makes more sense to include a sub and sell an entire 5.1 speakers system - so, I will need a sub sooner or later. I've also thought of making my own subs depending on what speakers I finally buy as the mains. I'm quite good with woodworking ... depending on what I get for the two mains, I could make two subs to function as stands for the two mains depending on what I get and their size ... essentially, follow some existing plans so that it can be acoustically viable but change aspects of the top and sides and essentially create something which I can sit the mains into making it look like there is only one speaker ... such things can wait though. I noticed that there are members here who also sell equipment - the is one guy selling two 1993 Cornwalls. He lives in North Jersey which is just a hop, skip and a jump from Philly. Thanks again folks! Please get back if you see something you think I might be interested in and I'll also let you know what I end up getting ... or perhaps ask for yet more advice if something else should present itself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I haven't used a Heresy between Cornwalls, but other people here have with good results. I do use one between La Scalas and it works very, very well. Naturally it's always best to have all the speakers be as much alike as possible, but, generally speaking, any properly performing Heritage speaker will match well with any other properly performing Heritage speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry19103 Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 Olorin, I suspect that you're correct in that the various speakers in the heritage series will probably all work together. Thanks again for the help everyone. Once I've got everything set up, I'll let you know how I made out.....Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Welcome! Five HIIIs would rock for music and HT, combined with the right sub (since they lack the very low end). I'm sure that a pair of Cornwalls and 3 HII or HIII would work too! Since you mention DIY for the sub, consider building a Tuba HT if size is not an issue. Nothing like horn-loaded bass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 HII's all around would be great, and as everyone else mentioned, they would sound awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 By the way, we like pics of all new gear [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry19103 Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 I will look into the sub recommendation and I'll check out some plans; I learnt a lot about cabinet making from my Dad but I'm sure there is a great deal more than good carpentry skills involved in speaker building - I'll get some plans to see if it's even feasible. Turbox, I'll post a pic once I've got everything together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 This might be just the thing for you -- http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1311008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry19103 Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 Thanks, Olorin, that was interesting: there's more to speaker cabinets than banging boards together! I wish one could use well seasoned furniture grade wood for speaker cabinets instead of high grade plywood or that super hard composite stuff but it just doesn't work that way. Guess it's veneer but they do make some really beautiful veneers. I'll also have to figure out what I'm going to do about the placement of the center speaker. I'll keep you kind folks posted when I have my equipment assembled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Appearance is certainly one of the criteria, but thing about using solid wood panels for enclosures is that they resonate and impart a sound of their own. That's fine for sound PRODUCTION, but the goal here is sound REPRODUCTION. That means you want an acoutically dead enclosure, and that means plywood, MDF, or OSB. If you can't use pretty plywood, covering an ugly but sonically inert material with something pretty is absolutely the correct approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stolenrs Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Good luck on your set up. Being a little partial I would just add, that if you can get a pair of Chorus IIs used for the fronts go for it. I just love my Chorus IIs and they never cease to impress me. I agree with big cliff, I have to say that I really enjoy the sound quality from both the Chorus I and II's, I have owned both and can say for the price you can't go wrong. I have my Chorus I's matched with an Academy center and Heresy I back surrounds for movies and when I listen to music (i'm more music than movies) I also use a pair of older ss-1 side speakers for 7.1 stereo. I also run the mains in 2 channel mode with my subs and once again it sounds awesome. I also use external amplification running 2 carver 806x's 1 bridged to around 365w to the mains and the other has two cannels bridged to 365w to the acadamy and 135 to the other 4 speakers. Granted I haven't listed to organ music on my system but I am sure that you would be most happy with the sound that they can reproduce. Welcome!! Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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