picky Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Just read my latest copy of 'Home Theater' Magazine (June 2011): Page 40 talks about a new sub from Paradigm: The Reference Signature Sub 2. It's hexagonal, $9-grand, 230 pounds, 3,000 W RMS @ 110VAC/ 4,500 WRMS @ 220VAC and has 6, 10" drivers. The reviewer, Shane Buettner gave it his higher recommendation.Okay, I gotta ask: $9,000….REALLY? Buettner said the ouput is so intense that your home better be structurally sound before using this thing. I have been living with our Klipsch RSW-15 since 2004 and absolutely loving it. The darned thing sounds perfect to me and does exactly what is asked of it. It’s musical, it’s percussive, it’s powerful, never annoying and it was $1,800 when it was new. I can’t imagine trading it for anything else. Even if I could afford the Sub 2, I can’t imagine going to that extreme. Klipsch already does such a fantastic job with subs and for so much less expense. Have any of you fellow Klipschters heard or seen this thing? If so, is it really that big a deal? I’m simply curious. -Glenn The Sub2: Looks a bit like the Klipsch RT-12d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Looks like they got pissed at JL for steeling thier thunder with the Gotham, MSRP $12,000. I believe this speaker is built using two of the automotive 13W7AE subwoofer drivers which MSRP for $1200 each. Weight, 360 lbs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I think Michael Hurds DIY would stomp a hole in either of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted May 14, 2011 Author Share Posted May 14, 2011 I have witnessed Michael Hurd's DIY on two occasions. I borrowed it to help break up an old concrete driveway one weekend. LOL That thing is SICK!! -Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluBitRates Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 anyone have a pic of hurds sub? Youve got my attention now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhoak Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 anyone have a pic of hurds sub? Youve got my attention now. I think they're talking about this one: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/100846.aspx?PageIndex=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Michael Hurd's sub DIY: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 What a waste of money (9-12 Grand??) when you can buy Danley DTS-10 sub kits for a grand and DIY or just get the Cinemonster for way less money......it's what they use in IMAX. Danley is the king of bass, bar none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 What a waste of money (9-12 Grand??) when you can buy Danley DTS-10 sub kits for a grand and DIY or just get the Cinemonster for way less money......it's what they use in IMAX. Danley is the king of bass, bar none. The DTS-10 kit will cost you over $ 1000 with shipping, second of all, you need to assemble them, ( you DO pay yourself don't you? ) ( 5 hours or so @ 25/hr ) finish them ( $400+ for a catalized two component urethane finish coating, unless you can live with an un-happy spousal unit) and then provide an appropriate amplifier. ( $ 300-1200+ ) Pros for the Paradigm: low distortion, already equipped with amplifier, fairly high output for the footprint, downside being cost. Some people just can't live with a 24 cubic foot box..... (DTS-10) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Michael, Do you have any plans for a future subwoofer project? I am interested in the folded horn technology, and am considering starting from scratch instead of buying kits and designs. I think it would be awesome to build a sub inside an unexpected container, like a sofa or something. That would be completely NUTZO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluBitRates Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Sweet sub Micheal. Not only ludacris power but looks great too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 What a waste of money (9-12 Grand??) when you can buy Danley DTS-10 sub kits for a grand and DIY or just get the Cinemonster for way less money......it's what they use in IMAX. Danley is the king of bass, bar none. The DTS-10 kit will cost you over $ 1000 with shipping, second of all, you need to assemble them, ( you DO pay yourself don't you? ) ( 5 hours or so @ 25/hr ) finish them ( $400+ for a catalized two component urethane finish coating, unless you can live with an un-happy spousal unit) and then provide an appropriate amplifier. ( $ 300-1200+ ) Pros for the Paradigm: low distortion, already equipped with amplifier, fairly high output for the footprint, downside being cost. Some people just can't live with a 24 cubic foot box..... (DTS-10) Yo, fellow Canuck. I wasn't referring to your build with my comment, being a DIY guys myself. You made a believer of me at IndyKlipschFan's house with your Gray sub and 3,000 watts of power. I felt what it might be like to be in a desert plane crash with Phoenix in the DVD player. You showed me 16 Hz in recordings and I'm a great admirer of your work as a DIY sub designer and builder. What I was referring to is the original post and the amount of money it COST to do as a consumer, not a DIY builder. I offered the Danley as a reasonable compromise for those who don't have your talent or high consumer dollars to spend and still get awesome sub bass. Besides, I like yours better than the JL or the Paradigm and I'm sure with the right amp, would outperform them even if someone paid you to build them one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Michael, Do you have any plans for a future subwoofer project? I am interested in the folded horn technology, and am considering starting from scratch instead of buying kits and designs. I think it would be awesome to build a sub inside an unexpected container, like a sofa or something. That would be completely NUTZO! Not Michael here. If you're looking to build, THIS is a sweet project. It's a 20 Hz horn in a very simple (for horns) build configuration. The recommended 15" drivers can be had for $75.00!! You could build 4 of them and only have $300.00 plus plywood and labor invested, or go nuts and build 8. Another good thing is you don't have to break the bank for amplification. Each cabinet only needs around 300 watts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Michael, Do you have any plans for a future subwoofer project? I am interested in the folded horn technology, and am considering starting from scratch instead of buying kits and designs. I think it would be awesome to build a sub inside an unexpected container, like a sofa or something. That would be completely NUTZO! Not Michael here. If you're looking to build, THIS is a sweet project. It's a 20 Hz horn in a very simple (for horns) build configuration. The recommended 15" drivers can be had for $75.00!! You could build 4 of them and only have $300.00 plus plywood and labor invested, or go nuts and build 8. Another good thing is you don't have to break the bank for amplification. Each cabinet only needs around 300 watts. Looks a lot like the DST-10 with only one driver. I wonder if he and Danley got an inspiration in the same place... I wish I knew a little more about reading those graphs. There are some I can read very well, and others that completely confuse me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Danley is on a whole different level that just about everyone else. Danley does a lot of tapped horns also whereas the horn I linked you to was a front loaded horn. Tom Danley is the guy who comes up with the designs that everyone tries to figure out and copy. All that being said, that particular sub is clean and loud to 20Hz without even factoring room gain. 75 dollars for a driver, 2 sheets of plywood and some time, you won't find a better bang for the buck sub anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 The first graph shows that the sub will put out almost 115 dB @ 20 Hz. The 2'nd graph shows that 15 Hz is not reproduced very well in this sub, it's distorted and doesn't get too loud (it shouldn't, it's tuned to 20 Hz). The next few graphs show performance at different frequencies. Up next is the impedance charts (2). He's trying to see if the impedance of the driver in the box matches the impedance that he's projected. This will tell him if the box has a leak. The last 2 are group delay, he's looking at distortion, but I'm not great in interpreting those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 How's the Paradigm Sub2 compare to the Krell Master Reference Sub? Holy cow! The Krell MRS is only $28,000! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 The first graph shows that the sub will put out almost 115 dB @ 20 Hz. The 2'nd graph shows that 15 Hz is not reproduced very well in this sub, it's distorted and doesn't get too loud (it shouldn't, it's tuned to 20 Hz). The next few graphs show performance at different frequencies. Up next is the impedance charts (2). He's trying to see if the impedance of the driver in the box matches the impedance that he's projected. This will tell him if the box has a leak. The last 2 are group delay, he's looking at distortion, but I'm not great in interpreting those. Thank you for the lesson. I will go back and look at those charts again. In fact, I will look at a lot of charts again since I actually know something about them now. I had heard about impedence anomolies being an indication of leaks, but I never understood it. Could it also be an indication a box needs more bracing? He tuned that thing for 20Hz. I find that fascinating! I would guess the horn must be a total of either 56.45', 28.225', or 14.113', because a 20Hz wavelength is 56.45'. As for the mouth size as compared to the driver size, that is a more complex algorithm which I need a slide rule to calculate. I may have all that wrong. I am piecing all this together as I learn or figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I had heard about impedence anomolies being an indication of leaks, but I never understood it. Could it also be an indication a box needs more bracing? The leaks will put a different load on the driver when compared to what the driver's load should be with a properly sealed box. I don't think bracing would change the load on the driver as much as a leak in the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Michael, Do you have any plans for a future subwoofer project? I am interested in the folded horn technology, and am considering starting from scratch instead of buying kits and designs. I think it would be awesome to build a sub inside an unexpected container, like a sofa or something. That would be completely NUTZO! There are plenty of DIY tapped horn projects out there. I built two for my HT and have been thrilled with the performance for movie LFE channel. This is one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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