strange to see a giant empty box

[leftwinger57]

Hello guys,

I have to tell you first off that I do own a set of Klipsch speakers. OK so ther're not Heresys' or any of the Heritage classics but a set of 500sw/ a 8in pwrd sub which does very nicely for my room. The question I have is that I've seen many opened backed Klipschs being sold and ther'es nothing and I mean nothing in these boxes but the speakers themselves. Now, one look and even an idiot can see that all the speakers are sealed and are front fireing. Now most speakers companys' boxes have baffels , insulation ,bracing and what ever technology is used nowadays. I do know that Mr Klipsch had to have gotten it right to have lasted this long in an industry that that changes owners like every other week. So for someone who really likes this brand and especially the classics could some one explain this open box theory w/o burning my very small brain...

[LarryC]

Pics?

[leftwinger57]

WHAT PIX,

You open any vintage Heritage Klipspch speaker and there's nothing but speakers.And I mean nothing. As I said on my original post you take preyyy much any E-BAY sale of a Klipspsch speaker w/ the opened back to show the original x-overs and horns but thats it. I have no pix to show go on e-bay and you'll see what I'm talking about. Again I realise that they are sealed front fireing speakers and horns and the x-over but absolutey nothing else.I've seen the inards of many speakers all w/ baffels, insulation, braceing and maybe like Advents or even mt Infinitys rounded or beveled fronts which to me would dress up any of the smaller boxes. I'm sorry if this is'nt coming across the way it should but it just seems that there would be alot more to a speaker going for the coin they garner......

[dtel]

I'm sorry if this is'nt coming across the way it should but it just seems that there would be alot more to a speaker going for the coin they garner.....

There is, it's in the sound, it all depends on how they are designed and what each company is trying to accomplish.

Very low distortion and high efficiency with an accurate live music sound are just a couple of there qualities. Compare the efficiency rating on most speakers to Klipsch, it may not sound like much but it makes a huge difference.

Some models do have bracing, insulation and baffles, like the Cornwall, klipschorn, LaScala, Belle, and many of the RF models, not sure of others.

If a speaker takes 25 wpc to reach 100 DB and another takes way less than 2 wpc to reach the same volume the lower design has much less distortion because the amp and speaker is not working nearly as hard to make the same volume.

You probably have never heard of someone needing to replace the speaker surround on a Klipsch even if it is 40 years old, I have some baby Advents that are probably 15-20 years old and I had to replace them once when they fell apart and the are probably close again.

It may seem like it's not a complicated design but if it can preform as good or better with less power and less distortion, there must be something that was designed right, and to still be selling and designing new models after 60 years is not just dumb luck.........I would hope.

[Don Richard]

Are you looking at the top hat? That's where the HF horns and crossover are located. There is no need for bracing or stuffing there, the compression drivers do not vent into the cabinet. The woofer bins are sealed, braced and damped where applicable.

The interior of the Khorn uses no stuffing as it is unnecessary in that application. There are no parallel surfaces in the woofer cabinet to generate standing waves and the design self-braces for vibration control.

[moray james]

Where you ask is your money going when you buy a klipsch Heritage? Simple into excellent designg and top quality (as in pro) drivers. They also spend some of your hard earned cash on excellent wood veneers usually hand mached so the cabinets look better and they throw some at excellent quality control so your speakers last. How many other product lines have the quality and longevity of Klipsch not to mention undying loyality. As far as aftermarket upgrades go I agree that cabinet brace and stiffening work are time and money well spent. That's what DIY is for to give you the exta value and performanceyou want. Extended Heritage products such as the Legend KLF series and the Epic CF series do have some internal braces. You have to look at all these products in the time frame that they were designed and produced as well as at their retail cost at that time. They represented excellent value then and for the most part still do today.

If you want to design and build new and superior cabinets you are looking at a minimum using double layer MDF or better yet Baltic Birch ply with a layer inside of MDF then braces stiffening and dress veneer and solid edge trim if you want to go with a radius on the edges. Do a little head math and you can see such a project is a major undertaking with a substantial expense likely greater than the cost of the speakers. So there is your answer.

Staying basic look and see what you can purchase a set of Heresy lll loudspeakers for (which are a very basic empty box design) then compare those to anything in the same price range or add on another thousand. Short of bass response I think that you will be very impressed with the value that you obtain from Klipsch. Hope this helps answer your concerns. Best regards Moray James.

[leftwinger57]

Thanks to all for the enlightenment. I thought I was going to get blasted and instead was well informed and it seems that all who replied knew exactly what I was talkiking about. Again there was absolutely no intent on slamming of Klipsch.Truth be told I would love a set of Fortes2s but price and availabilty is not in the cards right now.

Once again thanks for the replies and the learning curve is straightening out little by little.....

[gnatnoop]

One principle seems that Klipsch (especially heritage), will let physics decide how big the "box" should be rather than fight it and having to make all kinds of compromises. It allows high efficiency and low distortion.

[russ69]

ther'es nothing and I mean nothing in these boxes but the speakers themselves.

On a Heresy as an example, the two horn drivers are sealed so there is no back wave to suppress. A cone driver would require some isolation but not the sealed horn drivers. The bass driver is matched to the cabinet size and needs to be open backed. It's all part of the design and not a short-cut.

[fini]

Most kids love giant empty boxes.

[Dennie]

Most kids love giant empty boxes.

...and Cats! My cat would walk into the bass bins on the La Scalas, I'd turn the volume up and he'd come back out.

Dennie

[leftwinger57]

big cardboard refrigerater boxes to make intense forts out of.

[psg]

WHAT PIX,

You open any vintage Heritage Klipspch speaker and there's nothing but speakers.And I mean nothing. As I said on my original post you take preyyy much any E-BAY sale of a Klipspsch speaker w/ the opened back to show the original x-overs and horns but thats it.

Like someone else said, this describes the top section of a Klipschorn, La Scala or Belle. The front motorboard holds the horn lenses and sealed compression drivers are attached to those. It' plain and simple and open at the back. But you will find that the bass bin is an intricate work of art!

Here's a La Scala:

Here's a Klipschorn:

[fini]

big cardboard refrigerater boxes to make intense forts out of.

It needs to be canvas to be intense.

[jtnfoley]

Not strange... physics. Paraphrasing my learning (here and elsewhere) and My Understanding (take THAT with a pound of salt! )

The air space provides a very specific spring force that works in conjuction with (and contrary to) the force of the woofer being pulled back into the box. The "air-spring" counterforce helps accellerate the woofer cone outward thereby increasing efficiency. Even "open" speaker enclosures (thinking ported speakers here) have tuned ports rather than simple open baffles, the length, diameter, and shape of the port providing different amounts of pushback to the woofer.

Passive Radiator designs are no different, AFAIK. I've seen talk of tuning passives by adding mass to the passive cone to accomodate different active woofers.

Different low frequency drivers have different "Thiel-Small" parameters, which one can plug into WinISD or similar DIY Speaker Design software to try to come to an optimum efficiency and package size.

All design is a collection of compromise... efficiency and frequency response versus size is probably the biggest compromise in speaker design; There is, of course a LOT of subtlty... Internal bracing and blanketing to supress vibration (especially harmonic vibration,) material selection for weight/vibration/cost, etc.

The end goal of design compromise is, of course, to create a product that performs well enough to inspire people to buy it, at a price point that inspires people to buy it.