New Receiver?

[JAG02]

Hi All,

I recently purchased a pair of Klipsch KLF-20's and they sound amazing! I currently have it set up to connect to an old Radio Shack amplifier model number MPA 250 (I found the owners manual and spec sheet at the following link http://support.radioshack.com/support_audio/49021.htm).

I've managed to save up some cash to purchase a new receiver, but I have absolutely no idea on what type of features/specs I should look for in a receiver. I know Harmon Kardon, Yamaha, and Denon are pretty big players, but I am not sure which models are best - especially since I'm not sure if the receiver will have to be connected to my amp. I recently found a Denon 3311 floor model on sale at Best Buy for $650, but I'm not sure if buying a floor model is too risky of a gamble.

Anyway, I am just looking to get some advice/input on what I should look for in a reciever and get some recommendations on receivers. As I mentioned I am still starting my home theater so I know that I'll likely have to upgrade in the future. I'm looking to spend somewhere between 500 - 700 on a receiver.

Thanks for any/all help!

[Pete H]

Welcome to the forum! I would start this conversation by asking what your ultimate goal is? Are you more into HT or how important is 2 chanell? In my journey, they are two diffent worlds if you're looking for answers for one system. You might be looking for some combination that will give you the best possible of both worlds, but defining what your immediate goal is will really help with the response that you get being valid. Please don't take me the wrong way, I've been where you are and my answer was to have 5 different systems, which could be a little extreme, but it's like a ladder............one step at a time, so what are you after now.

[JAG02]

Hi Pete,

Is there a big difference between home theater and 2 channel (aside from the obvious 2 speakers vs 7)? Wouldn't I be able to have a solid home theater setup, but then play music 2 channel?

I guess my ultimate goal would be to have an amazing home theater system that I could listen to music on... So as it stands, I only have the pair of KLF 20's and the amp. I'm thinking my next purchase (after the receiver) will be a TV, then a center, then some surround speakers, then a sub - but that is obviously a long journey (not sure if that info helps).

[Pete H]

If HT is first on the list, I would recommend Onkyo for a fair price with many switching capabilities, but if you can step up to a solid Panasonic RXV, you will get the HT integration and a much better sound for audio only. Here's the bottom line, if you get a solid HT reciever, you will be taking a big step forward in both directions and then you will make transitional decisions based on your taste's and inrerests one step at a time. The Onkyo's of this generation really lack in the audio department, and I say that being a 20 year Onkyo owner, but the pre amp section and D/A converters don't do audio justice. I would strongly suggest that you look into the used market, and you can buy 2 or 3x the equipment that you could purchase new.

[Youthman]

if you can step up to a solid Panasonic RXV, you will get the HT integration and a much better sound for audio only.

Panasonic? I'm guessing you meant to say Yamaha RX-V.

[cornfedksboy]

I'll second the used Yamaha. I've been very happy with my RX-V1500 that I bought refurbished 6 or 7 years ago. I use it for HT mainly, but it also gets its share of music and does great! My new Onkyo is great for HT and okay for 2 channel. It has great functionallity and processing capabilities. and it does sound sweeter now that I've added a couple of Marantz Mono-Blocks.

I'd recommend Yamaha or Onkyo, although there are many other great choices such as Harman Kardon, Marantz, and Denon, just to name a few quality systems with great functionallity and a mid-level price point. I always recommend about 100 watts per channel and 7 channel functionallity (even if you only plan to use 5 channels). Also, get one with pre-outs, in case you want to add an amp later. To save some money, look for B stock, factory refurbished, or used models. Used for HT, I'd recommend getting a one to three year old model. That will enable you to use most/all of the recent processing formats and features, and keep it relevant for longer.

[JAG02]

Thanks for the advice! I have a few clarifying questions:

1.) What is the difference between an HT and 2 channel receiver? Is the audio quality different?

2.) Should I look for something that I can connect to my Radio Shack amp, or will any receiver that I buy have enough juice to power my speakers?

3.) Are there any specific qualities to look for in a receiver? I'm assuming there are some differences in the frequencies that it can process, right? Are there any solid "rules" of what I'm supposed to look for in a reciever?

Thanks again for the help, all - I greatly appreciate it.

[cornfedksboy]

1) HT stands for Home Theater. This would be any processor/amp combination that can handle 5+ speakers and a powered sub. 2 channel is obviously just that. Two channel receivers are much simpler and are designed to have a more "musical" sound.

2) Your amp is 125 watts by 2 channels I believe. If you get an amp with pre-outs, you can connect your RS amp to the receiver. The reason this is a good idea is because the multi-channel receivers loose power with more speakers plugged into it. For instance, you could get a 140 watt by 7 channel a/vr and plug 5 speakers into it. You then might only get 100 watts per channel out of it, so hooking up the RS amp to the system will give you some extra boost to your front speakers and alleviate some of the strain on your a/vr. With the a/vr only powering 3 of the 5 speakers, you may end up with say 120 watts per channel for those speakers. This is a common phenomenon across all receivers (except Harmon Kardon).

3) The receiver should be able to process the full-frequency raange to an acceptable level of distortion, so I wouldn't worry about that. The receiver will do basically three things: a) process the video source to the TV. process the sound source to the speakers. c) amplify the speakers. You'll want HDMI connections for HiDef television/Blu-Ray/etc. You'll want a 7 channel processor (even if you never intend to use all 7). You'll want pre-outs in case you want to hook up an external amp. Two features I look for in a receiver with Klipsch speakers is roughly 100 watts per channel (i.e. 90-140) and Audessy calibration or similar (Yamaha has it's own model). This is a set-up mic that tests and automates the calibration for you. It basically ensures that your speakers are functioning to their full potential (although it's not perfect). One last suggestion I would make for someone that was uncertain about what they wanted is to get a receiver that is THX certified. That doesn't do anything special, but it is a quality gauruntee that the processor will sound very good for movies. Also, if net-work capability is important to you (i.e. Net-flix), there are some great receivers out there that will handle that too.

Good luck!

[Pete H]

if you can step up to a solid Panasonic RXV, you will get the HT integration and a much better sound for audio only.

Panasonic? I'm guessing you meant to say Yamaha RX-V.

My bad, big TYPO[]

[Youthman]

1.) What is the difference between an HT and 2 channel receiver? Is the audio quality different?

Probably not much difference in audio quality, just different function. My guess is apples to apples, a 2ch Harman will perform as well as a 7.1chHarman Kardon, they just have different features and purposes.

2.) Should I look for something that I can connect to my Radio Shack amp, or will any receiver that I buy have enough juice to power my speakers?

To be honest, a quality receiver (Yamaha, Harman Kardon, Onkyo, Marantz or Denon) will likely far outperform any Radio Shack amp. Definitely look for a receiver that has preouts so you can add an external amp down the road should you choose to want to.

3.) Are there any specific qualities to look for in a receiver? I'm assuming there are some differences in the frequencies that it can process, right? Are there any solid "rules" of what I'm supposed to look for in a reciever?

As stated, if you look for a 1 - 3 year old receiver, they will have much of the same features as the current models. HDMI is a good thing to look for if you are using a bluray player. Preouts is a good feature. A receiver that can process Dolby TrueHD and DTS-Master is great. These are the HD Audio formats that are used on bluray disks which provide better sound than the previous Dolby Digital and standard DTS.

[Youthman]

[Y] on the advice given from cornfedksboy. Couldn't agree more with his suggestions.

Pete, I thought that might be the case. [] I couldn't ever remember anyone recommending a Panasonic receiver. []

[JAG02]

Thanks for all the help!

Final question - Will any quality receiver provide the best of both worlds in terms of HT and 2 channel audio? Or do I need to look for something in specific in order to get that? I was reading that one of the "dangers" in getting a home theater receiver is that it focuses on surround sound rather than playing the music from the two speakers - is this true? If so, sould I consider getting a 2 channel amp? I would just hate to hear distorted music, or not getting the best from my speakers.

[Youthman]

In my limited experience, my previous Onkyo receivers were fantastic for HT, and sounded OK for 2ch. The reason I say it only sounded Ok was the musical instruments sounded "blended" instead of separated and distinct.

I had an older 5.1 Harman Kardon AVR55 (only 55w per ch) and it sounded amazing for 2ch but didn't have enough power when driven at high volumes. The vocals would get harsh and strained at high volumes.

My current Yamaha seems to be a good blend in the middle. Fantastic for HT and Ok for HT. I know I have some acoustic issues in my theater room (the HK receiver and previous Onkyo's were in a different home altogether). I believe once I add acoustic panels to tame the slap echo and if I could position my main speakers from not being enclosed behind my false wall, the Yamaha would sound much better for 2ch. I have pulled my RF-83's as well as CF-2's and RF-7's out in front of my false wall and they sounded great in 2ch.

Again, this is my "limited" experience but I hope that helps.

[Youthman]

Final question

Trust me...that will likely not be your final question. I'm over 6000 posts in this forum and I'm still asking questions. [] That's not a bad thing. []

[SuBXeRo]

500-700 is a good budget for a receiver that is bottom of the midrange. Your klf-20's have dual 10's which means they are gonna suck some juice producing lower frequencies.

You can handle driving your speakers in 2 ways. One way is you buy a very powerful receiver or purchase separates (processor/amp combo) which is a bit out of reach financially for you. The perk with that setup is you can run them on full range and they will perform well. The second way is to purchase the midrange receiver in your price range and cut off the lower frequencies to remove some stress off the receiver. In this case, purchasing a subwoofer would be beneficial as the majority of subwoofers produced now a days is selfpowered. This would give you back your low range.

What i suggested was just 2 ways to handle things. What i would do in your position is purchase a midrange receiver, i would make sure it had preamp outs so you could add an outboard amp in the future. I would run your speakers in 2 channel mode now (obviously) which generally gives you some more juice as the total power abilities are only split amongst 2 channels and not 3, 5 or 7. I would run them in full range and see how they perform. I would also test them with different HPF cutoffs, such as trying it at 40hz, 50hz, 60hz, 70hz and see how it sounds. Now, running them in full range isnt going to hurt anything. The only time they are going to get damaged is if you start clipping the speakers which means the amp is peaking out, it cant produce any more juice and is chopping the top and bottom of the frequency signal and sending distortions to the speaker. 100 watts per channel is ALOT of power, especially if its continuous. For most, your reaching that when you get explosions in movies when listening at a louder level, similar to reference. Most people are not DJing with their speakers, alot of dj speakers are in the 150-250 watt range just to give you an idea. Receivers lack in the current (amperage) abilities and that is what is in heavy demand when producing lower frequencies.

I have been very hard against receivers in the past and i am rerealizing their place and usefulness. For most, receivers have their place because most people accompany their system with a subwoofer which is tsaking care of the low end where the most power is used and leaving the receiver to easily handle the higher frequencies. A lot of us who have power amps and rf-7's or KLF-20's or other of the larger woofered speakers put our HPF up to 40-60-80hz even despite the very full range ability of our speakers. Some say their speakers are more dynamic and responsive because they arent working as hard and letting the sub do the heavy lifting. So far, i have my 7's set to full range and i have subs, just my preference. I have an emotiva umc-1 processor, when i activate subs, i believe it activates a "small" mode like found in a receiver (large/small) settings for your speakers. This is also something you would want to mess with as well when tuning your speakers.

I know its over your budget but Anthem has released a new line of receivers. I just read a review of them in this months home theater magazine and it looks like a solid line. They range from 1000-2000 bucks and is over your budget but it might tickly your fancy. The worst things you can do is make a hasty decision and up with something you cant stand and regret.

I have listed a few options i think you should take a look at below. some are over your price point if not all but they are too far off, within 100-200. They arent denon or onkyo or yamaha, just some brands you may not have thought of off the top of your head. Again, they will all work despite the power output differences amongst one another, they will allow you to power everything and add a subwoofer soon.

http://www.anthemav.com/products/anthem/a-v-receiver/mrx-300
http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AVReceivers&SubCatId=&ProductId=SR5005 (on sale from outlaw audio, they have been using it as a processor since theirs have hit snags for the last 2 years, awesome price tooo!!!!!!!!!! great deal http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/sr5005.html)
http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=AVR 3600

[jjennings2510]

Everyone has such good suggestions! And I have to second the receiver suggestions....I love my Onkyo but i have to agree...after listening to the more musical Harman Kardon the Onkyo sounds good....not great with music...hard to describe but music just sounds better with the Harman....sounds warmer....but movies sound better on the Onkyo...the Harman is good with movies too but Onkyo sounds better. Nonetheless you can't go wrong with either. I've never personally liked Yamaha but they make some great receivers too! Harman sells a lot of refurbished stuff for cheap on ebay so check it out! its coming direct from harman so you'll get all the accessories and the full warranty etc.

[Pete H]

Just another angle for you to consider. You could look for a Sansui 7070 or 8080 that you could pick up for a couple hundred dollars. (I just got one for a friend for 175 and cleaned it all up in a couple of hours 7070) and it will give you wonderful audio and then pick up a good used HT receiver for 300-400 and you'll get both done for your budget and trust me you will love the Sansui sound for audio.

[rfive]

I would take a look at the Onkyo and Marantz units at ac4l.com.They are an authorized dealer for both brands and sell some refurbished gear at some great prices. I have bought several receivers from there and have never been disappointed by the condition of the products (look brand new to me) and the quality of the customer service (I had to return one once). I am not affiliated with them but I am a happy customer.

I have owned carver, yamaha, panasonic (digital amp), harmon kardon, and am currently running an Emotiva pre/pro and amp. I have also installed Onkyos and Yamahas in other peoples setups. While they are all unique I believe they would all be satisfactory for someone who was not already used to another brand.

For around $600 I would look at the Onkyo TX-NR808 http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXNR808/Onkyo-TX-NR808-7.2-Channel-3-D-Ready-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html

Or the Marantz SR6005 http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR6005A/MARANTZ-SR6005-110w-X-7ch-3-D-Home-Theater-Surround-Receiver/1.html

Good luck.

[JAG02]

Hey Guys!

In looking at your advice, I think I may have found the perfect receiver (http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR3312CI-Integrated-Surround-Receiver/dp/B004Z50L6E/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1339793094&sr=1-1&keywords=denon+3312)... What do you think?

Although I purchased it, I can still cancel it if it sounds like a bad idea - what do you all think? As a reminder I have two KLF-20's, will hopefully get a KLF C-7 and have a 55" Panasonic GT30 (3D capable TV).

[ivanhurd]

^^^That should be a decent AVR for you. I just purchased my first Denon, and so far so good =^)