Need help selecting two channel tube set-up

[cornfedksboy]

I've been contemplating a 2-channel set-up for some time, and I've been on the lookout for something that would work for my smallish front room and would like some additional input. My listening room is 11 X 14 and the speakers would go on the long wall spaced about 5-7 foot apart with a tube amp and CD player in between. The listening position will be about 2 to 3 meters away.

My limitations: room has two entrances, and because it is a front room, WAF is a must and room treatments are out of the question. The room is carpeted with two entrances, no doors, and a six foot bay window. Corner speaker placement is out of the question as this room also functions as the computer room and has a large roll-top desk that blocks one of the corners. To move the desk would mean there is no listening position. Budget has some flexability, but generally I'd like to be in the $1000.00 range for speakers and amp. CD player, pre-amp, cords, and stand will be purchased seperately using a new and different budget.

What I want: A two-channel set-up that would go under and slightly to the sides of my 6 foot bay window. I want to be able to produce clean, full range music using only two channels if possible. I want the set-up to be minimalistic and I'd prefer that the speakers aren't over-bearing in the room (i.e., no La Scallas, and must be able to place close to the wall, but not in a corner). To keep the budget under control I'm thinking used here. I'd like to have a darker stained veneer and the cabinets will need to be near mint to fit the rest of the room.

So, what should I be on the lookout for as far as speakers and amp? I know very little about tube amps and I don't soder. I'd prefer a table top unit with exposed electronics for aesthetic reasons, but it needs to be relatively easy to maintain. If possible, a unit that won't be lacking in providing deep/tight bass. What about speakers? Quartets? Fortes? Cornwalls? Are those the right models to consider? I definately want three-way speakers. Anything else I'm missing? Should I be more open to Hereseys with a sub? What about my budget? Am I in the ballpark of being able to get what I want for a grand or do I need to think about expanding the budget here?

Any thoughts are welcome.

[davis419b]

As far as speakers go of the three you mentioned and based on room size go for the Quartets. They dont have to be in a corner but must be pulled out from the wall. They can be had at the same price as Heresy's and wont need a sub. Trying to buy a tube and with whats left of your budget just remember you get what you pay for so dont expect alot !

[cornfedksboy]

As far as speakers go of the three you mentioned and based on room size go for the Quartets. They dont have to be in a corner but must be pulled out from the wall. They can be had at the same price as Heresy's and wont need a sub. Trying to buy a tube and with whats left of your budget just remember you get what you pay for so dont expect alot !

So, how much should I be budgeting for a good tube amp to power both speakers? I know Mc amps are about twice my budget. Is that what I need to be considering?

[tube fanatic]

So, how much should I be budgeting for a good tube amp to power both speakers? I know Mc amps are about twice my budget. Is that what I need to be considering?

A good tube amp is going to run you at least $500-1000, unless you
build one yourself from parts scrounged from equipment that's been
thrown away. One of the better values out there is the Jolida 102b which sells for around $650 (it features the all important balance control which is often lacking in many currently manufactured tube amps). It has the advantage of being new, with a warranty. Many dealers also sell them with a return privilege in case you are not satisfied. Most vintage tube amps will need to be electronically restored; doing that properly can be expensive; and, of course, once you buy it it's yours whether you like it or not.

[cornfedksboy]

Thanks for the suggestion on the Jolida! That looks like what I have in mind.

[LarryC]

Anyone familiar with the VAC Sigma 160i, 85 w/channel?

http://www.vac-amps.com/homepage.htm

"True integrated amplifier with proper line stage and phono stage

MC and balanced inputs optional
Black or silver fascia
Gold or chrome knobs"

[sebrof]

Anyone familiar with the VAC Sigma 160i, 85 w/channel?

http://www.vac-amps.com/homepage.htm

"True integrated amplifier with proper line stage and phono stage

MC and balanced inputs optional
Black or silver fascia
Gold or chrome knobs"

Looks nice but - If you link to where I can buy this amp and a decent pair of speakers for $1,000 I'm all in!

[jrod]

I agree w/ Davis, either Quartets or Fortes. Anything bigger would be a little overkill, and might effect the WAF. I absolutely love my Fortes in a similiar sized room as yours. I run vintage Marantz ss, and love the results (the new Onkyo integrated sounds OUTSTANDING with them too). I may venture into tubes someday myself, but for now, I'm enjoying what I got....

Ps- The combo (mint Forte IIs + vintage Marantz ss) was WAY under a grand.

[Mike Lindsey]

How about a nice used vintage integrated, like HH Scott, Eico, Fisher, etc.? They all sound wonderful with Klipsch Heritage speakers.

Mike

[cornfedksboy]

How about a nice used vintage integrated, like HH Scott, Eico, Fisher, etc.? They all sound wonderful with Klipsch Heritage speakers.

Mike

I'd be all for it so long as the maintenance isn't killer. If I do go vintage with tubes, what kind of upkeep might I expect?

[tube fanatic]

How about a nice used vintage integrated, like HH Scott, Eico, Fisher, etc.? They all sound wonderful with Klipsch Heritage speakers.

Mike

I'd be all for it so long as the maintenance isn't killer. If I do go vintage with tubes, what kind of upkeep might I expect?

If the amp is fully restored, the only maintenance likely to be needed is tube replacement. Depending on how the tubes are set up (i.e. whether they are being run conservatively, or being pushed to their limits, whether they are properly ventilated, etc.), life span can be short or considerable. Given that most of the tubes used in vintage amps are available from current manufacturers (as opposed to new old stock US, Canadian, or British tubes), the cost of replacement won't necessarily be huge. But, as I mentioned in a previoius post to your question, you must factor in the cost of a full restoration in the purchase price of the amp. Don't be pulled in by someone who says that they replaced the "essential" parts, but left everything else. There are many areas in which vintage amps can fail, and unless all of these are addressed, you can be in store for a costly failure down the road.

[NOSValves]

So, how much should I be budgeting for a good tube amp to power both speakers? I know Mc amps are about twice my budget. Is that what I need to be considering?

A good tube amp is going to run you at least $500-1000, unless you

build one yourself from parts scrounged from equipment that's been

thrown away. One of the better values out there is the Jolida 102b which sells for around $650 (it features the all important balance control which is often lacking in many currently manufactured tube amps). It has the advantage of being new, with a warranty. Many dealers also sell them with a return privilege in case you are not satisfied. Most vintage tube amps will need to be electronically restored; doing that properly can be expensive; and, of course, once you buy it it's yours whether you like it or not.

Why do you say that if you buy its yours whether you like it or not..... People sell and recoup most of there bucks spent on vintage all the time. The key is to buy one in nice cosmetic condition and have someone reputable rebuild it. They hold value way better then some cheap chinese made Jolida....and sound a heck of allot better to boot!!

[davis419b]

So, how much should I be budgeting for a good tube amp to power both speakers? I know Mc amps are about twice my budget. Is that what I need to be considering?

A good tube amp is going to run you at least $500-1000, unless you build one yourself from parts scrounged from equipment that's been thrown away. One of the better values out there is the Jolida 102b which sells for around $650 (it features the all important balance control which is often lacking in many currently manufactured tube amps). It has the advantage of being new, with a warranty. Many dealers also sell them with a return privilege in case you are not satisfied. Most vintage tube amps will need to be electronically restored; doing that properly can be expensive; and, of course, once you buy it it's yours whether you like it or not.

Why do you say that if you buy its yours whether you like it or not..... People sell and recoup most of there bucks spent on vintage all the time. The key is to buy one in nice cosmetic condition and have someone reputable rebuild it. They hold value way better then some cheap chinese made Jolida....and sound a heck of allot better to boot!!

I agree !

[tube fanatic]

So, how much should I be budgeting for a good tube amp to power both speakers? I know Mc amps are about twice my budget. Is that what I need to be considering?

A good tube amp is going to run you at least $500-1000, unless you
build one yourself from parts scrounged from equipment that's been
thrown away. One of the better values out there is the Jolida 102b which sells for around $650 (it features the all important balance control which is often lacking in many currently manufactured tube amps). It has the advantage of being new, with a warranty. Many dealers also sell them with a return privilege in case you are not satisfied. Most vintage tube amps will need to be electronically restored; doing that properly can be expensive; and, of course, once you buy it it's yours whether you like it or not.

Why do you say that if you buy its yours whether you like it or not..... People sell and recoup most of there bucks spent on vintage all the time. The key is to buy one in nice cosmetic condition and have someone reputable rebuild it. They hold value way better then some cheap chinese made Jolida....and sound a heck of allot better to boot!!

Well, firstly, vintage amps do not necessarily sound "better" than currently made Chinese units (in fact, some sound like garbage no matter what you do to them). Try some blind listening tests between restored vintage stuff and some of the current Chinese units and you will be amazed at the preferences of the listening audience. Secondly, your comment about having someone reputable rebuilding it is the critical factor. Many people buy vintage equipment from, or have vintage equipment restored by ostensibly reputable technicians who turn out not to be what they represent themselves to be. I've dealt with that issue for decades; and having to undo what someone else did is far more of a pain than rebuilding a factory job. So, as far as recouping one's investment in a vintage unit, much depends on what's "under the hood," and not just surface cosmetics.

[T.H.E. Droid]

This forum can be a good place to find used equipment. I bought my Scott LK48 a few years back from a forum member. It had been rebuilt by NOSValves and the price was very reasonable.

I also had the opportunity to buy from a local dealer. What was important to me was the ability to be able to audition the amp with my equipment. Both the dealer and the Klipsch forum member were very willing to let me return the amp if I wasn't happy. I was, and I kept it.

One thing I did notice about Craigs work-- It was top notch. The amp sounds good, and has clear instructions on how to adjust the bias levels for best perofrmance. No issues with worn controls, just a few minor cosmetic issues inevitable with vintage equipment, but it's like antique furniture, some blemishes just add to the charm. (along with that great hot tube smell.)

[cornfedksboy]

Thanks for the additional suggestions. What type of price range would I be in for some of the above listed amps...roughly?

[tube fanatic]

Thanks for the additional suggestions. What type of price range would I be in for some of the above listed amps...roughly?

Again, it depends on where you purchase it. As an example, many of the lower power Scott amps (like the 299 series) can be found for $300-500 depending on the condition. I used to have a flat restoration fee of $500 for such amps (not including tube replacement- that was additional); but, that included services which many restorers do not provide (no point in going into detail as I no longer do this for the public). Let it suffice that it went way beyond just replacing some capacitors, setting the bias, and calling it "restored." So, look around and carefully check the credentials of the person you choose to do the restoration before committing to do so. There are folks out there who have a multimeter and soldering iron and call themselves professional amp restorers!

[Ski Bum]

Thanks for the additional suggestions. What type of price range would I be in for some of the above listed amps...roughly?

Someone else quoted $500-$1000, for something ready to rumble, is pretty accurate. As an example, here's an Eico in our own classifieds which has been thoroughly restored, with a hot-rodded power supply and which is cathode-biased (self biasing, you never have to adjust it), runs the tubes conservatively (longer life), and even comes with a warranty:

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/151917.aspx?PageIndex=1

Alternately, you could try to find one in good cosmetic condition for much less and have it restored, and possibly save a few bucks.

As for Chinese SET amps, I would hold out for Wrights, Decware, or other domestics first. They pop up on the classifieds and audiogon, and typically disappear quickly. Several months ago a pair of Wright 2a3 monos went for $700, which I would personally prefer over the Jolida. Saw a Taboo go for $600, with extra tubes (and Decware will transfer their ridiculous lifetime warranty to new owners of used gear).

[T.H.E. Droid]

By the time I got my LK48 shipped here, I had just under $500 invested. That's a bargain because I know the previous owner spent a fair amount more than that buying the amp and having it restored. He also had a walnut cover made for it, and he also sent along the original metal cover.

Vintage hifi restorations are similar to car restorations, you can rarely get what you paid. The exception to that is McIntosh equipment, which seems to be just plain costly, whether restored or not.