Tremors Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Hi all! This is officially my second post and again I want to state that it's great to be a part of such an esteemed group of fellow Klipsch owners. Here's my question.... I have recently had the tremendous fortune to acquire a set of Klipsch reference at an amazing price, specifically the RF7,RC7,RS7,RSW15. Before these I had been using the full line of Synergy in my home theater, which included the F3,B3,S2,C2 and a BIC America 12" Sub. After purchasing the Reference series these obviously became my primary speakers but I have been using the F3's as my rear surround with these in a 15 foot by 18 foot room. Would anyone object to this? They are not getting serious wattage and seem to be complementing the Reference pretty well in this set up. I should mention that I am powering all of these with an Onkyo TX-NR609 in 7.1, I realize that I could or would be best suited to add some amps but they sound pretty good to me the way they are. Give me some feedback, I'm begging for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted August 28, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 28, 2011 Give me some feedback, I'm begging for it! OK, since your begging...and I am in NO way esteemed, must be someone else your taking about ....Welcome [] If it were me, I would use the RF's in a 5.1 and not mix in the Synergy, to me 7.1 is not that important......you asked [] OR sell some of the Synergy's and keep the F3's for sound in another room if you need them, if not sell them also. Use the $ and get 2 more RS 7's if you want to keep 7.1. Do you have your mains set to small letting the sub do the hard work ? This would give your amp a little boost, I don't know how loud you like to go, for many that Onkyo would be plenty, depends on what you want from the RF's. Nice jump to the 7's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJCarney Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I owned the f-2's and f-3's before I went to the reference line so I know how nice they are. I did some mixing as I switched over because I didnt purchase my RF items all at once. I ended up selling my f-3's for $500. I would take all your synergy stuff and sell it off. Then use the money towards an XPA-5 and another set of rs-7's (or whatever speaker you want to use as rear surround from the old RF line). I know your room isn't huge but it's bigger than mine and I have an XPA-5. At first I didnt notice a huge difference... but I have been taking apart and rebuilding my HT for various reason and the XPA has been in and out of the system. Now I do notice a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 A believer (finally) [] [6] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elitedemo Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 id sell most of the synergy and look at getting another set of rs7 or a pair of rb75s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornfedksboy Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 First off, congrats on the new system! Major step-up in quality. From the info you provided, and what you want to do, the issue I see is the Onkyo, and here's why: The Onkyo 609 is a fine a/vr (I have the 708), but it doesn't have pre-outs, therefore, you can't add an amp. If you want to add amplification, you MUST but a new receiver or processor. A little back-ground in case you are unaware of the power output from a receiver; The Onkyo is rated at 100 watts per channel (WPC) at 0.08% Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) at a frequency of 1KHz (I think) with 2 channels running. As you approach lower frequencies, the THD increases meaning that your speakers will be less clear. The same is true as you increase your listening volume. As you add additional channels, i.e. center and surrounds, to go to 5 channels, the THD increases to 0.1% (still acceptable) and the WPC decreases to about 70. Some receivers do better than others, but this is true of all "budget systems." You should be able to produce good solid sound in this configuration, but the listening volume must be lower to compensate for THD. This in-turn, will not allow your RF-7s to "open-up" and really shine. They'll still sound good, but they may be a little sluggish and/or muddy in the bass/mid-bass compared to their capabilities. Now, add two more channels for a 7.1 configuration and the WPC is now down around 30, and the bass really gets muddy. With all of that said, what should you do? Well, there are a few options. 1) Buy a new receiver/pre-pro and amps and let your new system really shine! This is, of course, the most expensive option, but good deals can be had on great used gear. Add another set of rear speakers if you so choose. Your synergy speakers and receiver can either be place in a new room or sold to compensate for cost. The F3s could be used as rears until you find that great deal on Reference bookshelves. 2) Keep your current receiver and add the F3s as rears. Compensate for lack of sound production by setting your cross-over at 80Hz (THX Reference Level) and keep the volume at a gentle roar. 3) Use a 5.1 Reference set-up and allow for a fuller sound from the RF-7/RC-7, but still keep the volume (and thus distortion) under control. Sell the Synergty set-up, if not in use, and once you have some cash purchase a new receiver/pre-pro and amps. Give it a listen using the various options and decide from there. Depending on what you do with your speakers and what you want your speakers to do, your ears should be able to give you a good indication as to what the next step ought to be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 ... I have recently had the tremendous fortune to acquire a set of Klipsch reference at an amazing price, specifically the RF7,RC7,RS7,RSW15. ...I have been using the F3's as my rear surround with these in a 15 foot by 18 foot room. Would anyone object to this? They are not getting serious wattage and seem to be complementing the Reference pretty well in this set up. I should mention that I am powering all of these with an Onkyo TX-NR609 in 7.1, I realize that I could or would be best suited to add some amps but they sound pretty good to me the way they are!.Congratulations and welcome to the club! If your F-3s sound good back there I would keep them, but agree with others that adding some more power to your HT will make a difference. With that AVR I would set a crossover at 80 Hz (i.e., not full range) for all of the speakers and let the RSW 15 take up the bottom end. Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tremors Posted August 29, 2011 Author Share Posted August 29, 2011 Thank you, this is insightful and I'll have to test out different scenarios. I also didnt realize that I could not add an amp if I chose, that's a bummer. The wealth of information that has been provided to me is both amazing and very helpful. Luckily, I have been able through diligence and finagling to secure all of my Klipsch products at, I think, excellent prices that shouldn't make recouping costs too difficult. I feel like I've done well and could make a misstep or two without too much sacrifice. But, I obviously just want it all to sound the best that it possibly can and am willing to throw a few more dollars at it to make that happen. I wish that I had joined this forum before purchasing my receiver though, not being able to add an amp COULD be a big bummer going forward, we'll see. Thank you all for your input so far, its been more than helpful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 ... the full reference line cost me 1400. I feel like I've done well and could make a misstep or two without too much sacrifice. ! [] DUDE! That is a tremedous price for your your Klipsch Reference Home Theater! The RSW-15 alone retailed for $1800.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tremors Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Cornfedksboy, that's great info, thanks. I've got a couple very amateur questions....when you say "set the the crossover at 80hz are you referring to the settings in the receiver or on the Subwoofer itself? Also, I'm confused by the 0 or 180 phase setting on the Sub. I have previously had my other Sub set at 0 but this RSW was set at 180 when I got it. I have my sub placed about one foot to the left of the LF speaker and about four foot from the corner. When I have placed it closer to the corner the sound gets muddy, partially because my basement is finished with wood paneled walls and have no sound deadening material applied, yet. The previous owner of these reference had the sub placed about one foot to the left of the LF speaker but about 8 foot from the corner (larger room than mine). So are setups were/are very similar but the phase that we were each using was opposite of one another? Can you help me understand the difference between the settings? Anyone else can feel free to weigh in on this as well, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Set the crossover in the AVR to 80 Hz and and bypass the one in the RSW-15 (i.e., switch on the back). Insofar as phase is concerned, try it both ways and see which is tighter. Fwiw, I have my RSW 15 about 6 to 8 inches from the corner and sidewall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornfedksboy Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Set the crossover in the AVR to 80 Hz and and bypass the one in the RSW-15 (i.e., switch on the back). Insofar as phase is concerned, try it both ways and see which is tighter. Fwiw, I have my RSW 15 about 6 to 8 inches from the corner and sidewall. tkd pretty much covered it! I'll second the fantastic price you got!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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