Audyssey XT Settings

[Heritage_Head]

The content material in movies just doesn’t have super low content to those channels. So just because it can doesn’t mean it automatically will. I will say it again sound engineers have no reason to put that type of content into those channels so they don’t...

Where is a reference for this assumption? EDIT: I also cross my RF-7s at 60 Hz because anything lower than that my RSW subs can handle better.

I hadn’t really thought about it tell a conversation with

SVS sparked my interest and I did some research on audio mixing for movies and confirmed

what he said. The normal cut off for a speaker/channel is 80 Hz because that’s how

movie theaters are set up. They send all the really low stuff to the lfe. (Why wouldn’t

they?) All thx speakers are designed to go down to 80 Hz and up. Look at

the stats for the klipsch thx speakers they are rated at 80 Hz and up. I’m not

trying to convince anyone that one way is right. Just replying to your post

when you asked how I came up with setting speakers to large. And SVS wasn’t telling

me to set my speakers to large he just explained why it’s not as big of a deal

as it seems to be made into in audio circles. You can crossover your speakers but

you’re just not sending much of anything that low to the sub because there isn’t

anything much to send below around 50 Hz. The reason I say 50 Hz and not 80 is

because there is always a slope (12db or 24db) so at the 50 Hz point there

really isn’t too much to send to the lfe. crossover your 7s at 60hz so you’re

at the most sending about 50 hz-60hz to

your sub. Same goes for your other speakers. So my way isn’t better it’s basically

the same with just a little less mid bass to my subs. If you like it great I personally

like how my subs sound without the extra bump in that range. For me it’s all

about how it makes the subs sound and nothing to do with my speakers being full

range or not.

http://www.klipsch.com/kl-525-thx-bookshelf-speaker#second

As far as “reference for this assumption” I will look for

some proof if you need it. But ask yourself this. For the very same reasons you

and 98% (me included) of people would argue to send all the real low bass content

to the sub. Those same reasons would be a good “reference for this assumption”

every point you make for your argument is another reason they would mix it that

way. Right?

[Zen Traveler]

Those same reasons would be a good “reference for this assumption” every point you make for your argument is another reason they would mix it that way. Right?

No. My guess is as StephenM pointed out, some do some don't, and when it comes to older material definitely "not." Remember the industry assumes that there will be Bass Managment at the users end just as there is in theaters...Again, if I am right and you enjoy your setup who cares what I think. I really don't think you are missing/gaining much either way...Fwiw, when I had my older Denon AVR-4802R I ran my RF-7s as large but with the addition of Audyssey on the AVR-4806 model I have been able to fine tune my Home Theater even further by running my mains as Small.

[cornfedksboy]

Dolby recommends that all material below 80 Hz be sent to the LFE. I have the white paper on it. My brother is a sound engineer and "in the industry.". He said that less than 1% of content below 60 Hz makes it to anything other than the sub. Take that for what you think it's worth.

[Heritage_Head]

Dolby recommends that all material below 80 Hz be sent to the LFE. I have the white paper on it. My brother is a sound engineer and "in the industry.". He said that less than 1% of content below 60 Hz makes it to anything other than the sub. Take that for what you think it's worth.

Yes that’s very close to what svs said and what I found.

[Heritage_Head]

Like I said I do it because I like how my subs sound better

with the speakers set to large. The rest of the speaker’s imo sound the same

large or small because there really isn’t any content anyways. Some speakers

need bass management so there is differently a purpose for it. But if your

speakers can handle 50 Hz with ease it doesn’t matter too much like svs and

corn just said.

[Heritage_Head]

Those same reasons would be a good “reference for this assumption” every point you make for your argument is another reason they would mix it that way. Right?

No. My guess is as StephenM pointed out, some do some don't, and when it comes to older material definitely "not." Remember the industry assumes that there will be Bass Managment at the users end just as there is in theaters...Again, if I am right and you enjoy your setup who cares what I think. I really don't think you are missing/gaining much either way...Fwiw, when I had my older Denon AVR-4802R I ran my RF-7s as large but with the addition of Audyssey on the AVR-4806 model I have been able to fine tune my Home Theater even further by running my mains as Small.

It’s all good I like hearing people’s opinions on this stuff

its very interesting and I seem to learn something new every day on these forums.

It sounds really good both ways and really at this point its tuff to do it

wrong just different.

[StephenM]

Full range capability doesnt mean anything other than it has the ability to process 20-20k.

It means any given DVD or Blu Ray can send 20Hz material to your main, center, or surround speakers which will not be reproduced properly on your system, unless you set your speakers to small, or they are actually capable of competently reproducing the material (which even your RF-7s are not). Do you have any evidence beyond the word of an SVS tech that no DVD/Blu Ray disc ever made (or that ever will be made) will not send content below 50Hz to your mains/center/surround speakers?

But that doesnt mean youre hearing 20 Hz because most music doesnt go any lower than 30hz.

That entirely depends on the music, doesn't it???? Organ music can definitely go below 30 or even 20Hz.

[enhanced250]

Deleted double post

[Heritage_Head]

Full range capability doesn’t mean anything other than it has the ability to process 20-20k.

It means any given DVD or Blu Ray can send 20Hz material to your main, center, or surround speakers which will not be reproduced properly on your system, unless you set your speakers to small, or they are actually capable of competently reproducing the material (which even your RF-7s are not). Do you have any evidence beyond the word of an SVS tech that no DVD/Blu Ray disc ever made (or that ever will be made) will not send content below 50Hz to your mains/center/surround speakers?

But that doesn’t mean you’re hearing 20 Hz because most music doesn’t go any lower than 30hz.

That entirely depends on the music, doesn't it???? Organ music can definitely go below 30 or even 20Hz.

Ever made? lol

Ok now your just nitpicking I said most music to make a
point I’m very aware there is music that can hit 20 Hz wow really? If you don’t believe me that’s fine audio engineers
mix movies to Dolby standard or very very close to it. They mix to the standards
that will be used in the theaters and the disks which in this case is Dolby and
DTS (80hz) They don’t sit there and think well people have bass management so
who cares what Dolby and dts say let’s let them figure it out. If you want to
make your case by saying that .05% of blu rays have content below 50 Hz to all channels
by all means but that’s just nitpicking if you ask me.

There is no right or wrong here so I’m not sure why your
trying to discredit me by mixing my words to say what I clearly never said.

Also
how is your definition any different than mine of full range?

[StephenM]

If you dont believe me thats fine audio engineers mix movies to Dolby standard or very very close to it.

Yup, and the Dolby Digital standard says all channels can go down to 20Hz, except LFE, which can go down to 3Hz!

They mix to the standards that will be used in the theaters and the disks which in this case is Dolby and DTS (80hz)

Where does Dolby say their mixes will restrict channels other than LFE to 80Hz?

If you want to make your case by saying that .05% of blu rays have content below 50 Hz to all channels by all means but thats just nitpicking if you ask me.

And that's accurate reproduction if you ask me [] Of course, out of curiosity, how many blu rays have you analyzed to say that only 0.05% send content below 50Hz to something other than the LFE channel?

[JasonJCarney]

Dolby recommends that all material below 80 Hz be sent to the LFE. I have the white paper on it. My brother is a sound engineer and "in the industry.". He said that less than 1% of content below 60 Hz makes it to anything other than the sub. Take that for what you think it's worth.

no offense but you guys are ruining the allution of full range home theatre.[:@]

[darylomer12]

I set everything too large to reduce the amount of mid bass content to my subs. Movie content doesn’t have super low frequency content to any of the speakers anyways so by setting your speakers to small (at say80hz) your only really redirecting frequencies in the 50hz-80hz range . To me adding all that extra mid bass to your sub makes it sound boomy. I see it on my screen with the sms-1 eq it runs its tone out of all the speakers not just the subs so I can see what is really happing. I totally understand all the logic of it and there are arguments to support both sides. But if you crossover your fronts at say 40hz you’re not changing anything because there is no content below that on the movie to the fronts anyways so what are you crossing over? If you crossover your surrounds at 50 Hz you’re not changing anything because movies don’t have content to the rears below 50 Hz. I run only lfe content to the subs and imo that’s when they sound there best. All my speakers can handle 50 Hz and up pretty easily.

I have spent many many hours reading both sides and have kept an open mind to both ways. I ran my stuff set too small for a long time. But after having a long conversation with a SVS tech guy he explained that sound engineers who make movies don’t put low content into these speakers so the change is small and in fact if you crossover to high at say 80hz you can end up with too much mid bass going to your sub. Make sense?

Exactly, well said!

[Heritage_Head]

Dolby recommends that all material below 80 Hz be sent to the LFE. I have the white paper on it. My brother is a sound engineer and "in the industry.". He said that less than 1% of content below 60 Hz makes it to anything other than the sub. Take that for what you think it's worth.

no offense but you guys are ruining the allution of full range home theatre.

Lol 80-20,000 is full range to me. (as long as there is a

sub in the room[])

[enhanced250]

Throw this question in to the mix.....for those that have the option to have bass come from mains+sub, or just sub what do you choose?

[Heritage_Head]

Throw this question in to the mix.....for those that have the option to have bass come from mains+sub, or just sub what do you choose?

I would choose just the sub but you should try both and see
what you like. It’s all about your taste your room and your gear. One thing I will say don’t just do a quick a/b
test. Try it one way for a week then another. Give whatever you try a chance.

[StephenM]

Lol 80-20,000 is full range to me. (as long as there is a

sub in the room)

My point is if you want your speakers only producing 80Hz-20kHz (or 40Hz-20kHz), you need to set them up that way, not rely upon the word of an SVS tech guy or pray that every audio engineer only encodes 40 or 80Hz on up to the mains, center, and surround channels. As much faith as you might place in the SVS guy, according to your posts, you lose nothing by setting your speakers to small and crossing them at 40Hz. On the other hand, you gain the knowledge that even if an engineer puts some 20Hz content on your surround channels, you will hear it as intended.

[StephenM]

I would choose just the sub but you should try both and see what you like.

No argument from me there.

[Heritage_Head]

Lol 80-20,000 is full range to me. (as long as there is a
sub in the room)

My point is if you want your speakers only producing 80Hz-20kHz (or 40Hz-20kHz), you need to set them up that way, not rely upon the word of an SVS tech guy or pray that every audio engineer only encodes 40 or 80Hz on up to the mains, center, and surround channels. As much faith as you might place in the SVS guy, according to your posts, you lose nothing by setting your speakers to small and crossing them at 40Hz. On the other hand, you gain the knowledge that even if an engineer puts some 20Hz content on your surround channels, you will hear it as intended.

Ok my last reply on this. Stephen lets agree to disagree
cool?

[robc1976]

Large

Large

Large

Large

Is how mine are set

Really?? Mine all small and I prefer to let my sub handle the bass LOL!!

[StephenM]

Ok my last reply on this. Stephen lets agree to disagree cool?

Not a problem.