tidmack Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I've hesitated to ask this question because I don't want to start ANOTHER "which cable is best" thread, but I have a problem and need help. I have two systems at my house and both run McIntosh 2105 amps and 113 preamp/tuners, with LaScalas or K-horns. Over the summer, I had an opportunity to hear another guy's system with a Mac 2105 amp and preamp whose brand I can't think of, paired with some fancy, boutique-style speakers. What surprised me most was how quiet his system was. There was very little to no hiss that I could hear, even with music I brought along. I'm from the camp that cable is cable and I run cheap Monster interconnects that I got while I worked at an electronics store in college. Is the added noise in my system from my rca cables, or is it from using a different preamp than he had and super efficient Klipsch speakers? In other words, are my 113's considered "noisy" preamps and are the horns on my LaScalas and Klipschorns revealing the hiss? Does anyone out there have my amp/preamp combo without hiss? Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 As you suggest, it could be his preamp is quieter? Or that your LS and KHorns have more high end and are more efficient. I'm just saying'... I use cheap cables, so I'm not gonna be much real help here. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 The extreme efficiency of the K-horns and La Scalas causes them to be very revealing of any kind of noise in the audio chain. The other guy's Mac 2105 and preamp may have the same, or possibly even a higher, noise figure as yours but it wasn't audible due to different tweeters or a less efficient speaker design. Is there any way he would bring his Mac and preamp to your house for a comparison with your equipment? I'd bet that you do not hear less hiss than with your own equipment, assuming that your Mac amp/preamp is operating within spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 As you suggest, it could be his preamp is quieter? Or that your LS and KHorns have more high end and are more efficient. I'm just saying'... I use cheap cables, so I'm not gonna be much real help here. Bruce I'm with you Bruce! Russ, please proceed to the 2 channel section....Stat!!! Code Blue! Russ to the 2 channel Section, STAT!! Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 It's not the cables making the noise. It's your electronics. Whether amp, pre-amp or source. As someone suggested, the most likely reason that your friend's system is quiet, is that he has inefficeint speakers. The only way to track down this noise is by process of elimination. Bring over your friend's pre-amp to your house etc --- Or can you run your speakers directly from your amp? that would eliminate the pre-amp. I have 105db Modified Khorn/Altec speakers being driven by Welborne SET amps and a Welborne 6SN7 Pre-amp and use an Electric Minimax DAC as my source. I can put my ear up to my Midrange horns and my system is dead quiet. Ground Loops was my last 'noise' problem and I have gotten rid of them entirely. No hiss, No humm at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidmack Posted September 25, 2011 Author Share Posted September 25, 2011 I appreciate the input. I should have mentioned that I ended up buying his 2105 and it's part of the 2nd setup I have. Both systems are equally as noisy and one system has been recently serviced by a local Mac guru, so I'm thinking I can eliminate a problem with the amp or preamp. I'm fine with knowing that it's just my equipment, I still love the McIntosh and Klipsch sound. I also appreciate that this discussion didn't quickly digress into an argument over whose cables are better. Back to the game... Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I agree it's not your cables. While I believe some cables sound better than others, noise is not one of the differences. Most electronic noise is PRE-AMP noise, magnified into audibility by (1) high amplifier gain and (2) high speaker efficiency. High preamp line-stage gain may factor into it. In your case, the simplest cure is if your amplifier has a level control -- just turn it down, and the problem is solved. It's more complicated if if doesn't have a level control. I'll look it up shortly, but does it? Larry Edit: one pic shows separate L and R gain controls, so what happens when you turn them down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidmack Posted September 25, 2011 Author Share Posted September 25, 2011 HI Larry, The 2105 indeed has gain controls. I normally run them at 50% and do the rest from the 113. Although somewhat annoying, having some hiss isn't the end of the world, so I'll probably leave things where they are. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 It may be just a characteristic of the amp or pre-amp, especially with efficeint speakers.And especialy because it is on both of your systems. Your buddies system may be quiet mostly because of his ineffcient speakers. You should check on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Jeff, Level controls can sound better in some parts of their rotation than in others. I suggest you try several positions of both the amp level and 113 volume controls, and see what combination gives you the best combo of sound quality and low noise. As a starting point, I'd suggest trying the preamp VC at 11 o'clock and the amp controls pretty far down, at, say, 9 a.m. o'clock if the max is 6 to 8 p.m. (yep, that's pretty far down). You'll want to find the sweet spots of both the pre and the amp level controls. Indeed, you may have to put up with a bit of noise for best sound, and that may be what you've intuitively discovered. Recent visitors have commented on how quiet my system is, notwithstanding a slight residual "OTL buzz." I believe this is because I had the manufacturer of my amps reduce their gain by about 9 db to control noise from my K-horns. His preamp's line stage has only 4 to 11 db gain, which also helps. It wasn't that quiet, though, until I put in the right kind of dimmer switch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.H.E. Droid Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Anyone who spends top dollar for Mcintosh equipment should expect a dead low noise floor, that's one of the things the money is being spent for. (And yes, there actually are products out there with top-dollar engineering rather than audiophile hype.) Generally any decent interconnect cable brand with clean connections will give excellent performance. Hiss comes from the electronics, hum and buzz from cables. The hiss you hear in your system is coming from your electronics. Given the same model amps, you need to look at your preamp and/or music source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.