AstralFurious Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'm brand new here and looking for some advice on amplifier/speaker/room matching. For starters (and if the details matter), here's my system: Basis Ovation TT --> Wright phono preamp --> Jeff Korneff 76 preamp --> Jeff Korneff 45 power amp --> ??? Musical taste is primarily classical, but there's plenty of classic rock and other stuff in the mix. It's basically all vinyl for now as I update to a digital music server and pray that I have more luck with that than I ever did with a CD player(!) OK, my 45-based SET power amp has about 1-1/2 wpc on offer, and I've recently moved into a living room that's roughly 25' x 20' x 17' (cathedral ceiling). Suddenly, my Voigt pipes (mid-90s sensitivity) aren't cutting it anymore. I think I need speakers more in the 100+ dB range that are really able to fill this space. (I've had good luck with some large vintage Altecs in this room.) Also, based on where furniture is currently located, corner-dwellers would work really well. Here's a link to a picture: http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i375/Jim_Hodgson/4LivingRoom2-2.jpg Unfortunately, the site's software and my document management software do not work well together, so I can't post a pic directly in my message -- sorry... I'm mostly concerned about imaging, etc., with corner horns ... and to that end, I'm wondering what to expect from Klipschorns (or similar). That said, all of the fiddly audiophile details are starting to take a back seat in my old age to enjoying the music with someone special. Maybe I could get some thoughts and recommendations? Also, I'm totally confused about the different eras and designations ... what does "B-style" indicate, for instance? What should I be looking for exactly? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Well, I use 45 amps and can tell you that they work very well with Khorns in a Large room. Especially if your music tastes are Jazz, Female Vocals etc. Everyone that has Korneff 45 amps loves them, so you are headed in the right direction. My room is about 25 feet by 30 feet. - I use a Khorn Bass Bin and Tweeter with an Altec 1005B Midrange Horn and 288-16K Driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Welcome to the Klipsch Forum AstralFurious, we're glad you're here! Others will be able to help you with the Khorns, I just wanted to post your picture for you. Here it is.... Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralFurious Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 I use a Khorn Bass Bin and Tweeter with an Altec 1005B Midrange Horn and 288-16K Driver. Well, along those lines, one thing I could do is to work with what I have already -- 6 Altec 414Zs, a pair of 804As with 811B horns, and a pair of the very desirable 3000G tweeters. (These would need to be removed from my Carmel and Seville cabinets.) I've had this stuff for years ... the problem being that I could never find someone with a great design for an enclosure that incorporated all three (or more) drivers. I'd be willing to pay a decent amount of money for a pair of corner cabinets (and crossovers) that would incorporate these drivers. Frankly, I think I'd be happy with a box for a 414Z or two with the two horns stacked on top. Any further thoughts for me? Thanks so much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralFurious Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 I use a Khorn Bass Bin and Tweeter with an Altec 1005B Midrange Horn and 288-16K Driver. Well, along those lines, one thing I could do is to work with what I have already -- 6 Altec 414Zs, a pair of 804As with 811B horns, and a pair of the very desirable 3000G tweeters. (These would need to be removed from my Carmel and Seville cabinets.) I've had this stuff for years ... the problem being that I could never find someone with a great design for an enclosure that incorporated all three (or more) drivers. I'd be willing to pay a decent amount of money for a pair of corner cabinets (and crossovers) that would incorporate these drivers. Frankly, I think I'd be happy with a box for a 414Z or two with the two horns stacked on top. Any further thoughts for me? Thanks so much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 It might cost you more to design a Bass Bin than getting a used pair of Khorns..... The KHorn Bass Bin is fairly complicated and I would not want to attempt building it. You can probably pick up a pair of used Khorns for around $2 Grand give or take and then go from there, as the midrange and tweeter do not have to be enclosed. I am not seeing the corners in your picture.......Where are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'm wondering what to expect from Klipschorns (or similar). OK, my 45-based SET power amp has about 1-1/2 wpc on offer, and I've recently moved into a living room that's roughly 25' x 20' x 17' (cathedral ceiling). Suddenly, my Voigt pipes (mid-90s sensitivity) aren't cutting it anymore. I think I need speakers more in the 100+ dB range that are really able to fill this space. (I've had good luck with some large vintage Altecs in this room.)Khorns are the right path with their 105 dB/W sensitivity and their outstanding clean bass down to about 32 Hz. They will help you on your path to classical music nirvana, except that you'll either need two good corners or you'll have to use false corners in your room (looking at your picture, it looks like the latter option is the most viable). This will require a little bit of woodworking, but not much...You could also invest in a pair of Jubilee bass bins that don't require false corners, and the bass is even better than Khorns...and they can cross much higher than 400 Hz if need be. I'm mostly concerned about imaging, etc., with corner horns ... and to that end, I'm wondering what to expect from Klipschorns (or similar). That said, all of the fiddly audiophile details are starting to take a back seat in my old age to enjoying the music with someone special.I sense a bit of a mixed message here...are you saying you want plug-and-play or are you willing to put just a little effort into "getting them set up"? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralFurious Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 I am not seeing the corners in your picture.......Where are they? Front right and left. The barely visible doors on the right enter out onto a 3-season porch that I barely use. Doors close to form a corner there. The large hutch on the left can be moved to reveal the corner there. With that, everything will be nice and fairly symetrical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralFurious Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 ...except that you'll either need two good corners or you'll have to use false corners in your room (looking at your picture, it looks like the latter option is the most viable). This will require a little bit of woodworking, but not much... You could also invest in a pair of Jubilee bass bins that don't require false corners, and the bass is even better than Khorns...and they can cross much higher than 400 Hz if need be. I think that with a little furniture rearranging (and with the simple closing of doors as I described in my post of just a minute ago), I actually will have two good corners -- which is part of the reason that these speakers are appealing to me. I sense a bit of a mixed message here...are you saying you want plug-and-play or are you willing to put just a little effort into "getting them set up"? Both ... LOL. Of course, I *say* I want plug-and-play -- the easy solution -- but no doubt I'll spend just as much time working with these as with everything else. Honestly, I think that if you take a look at the rest of my system, you'll see that I'm willing to put in the effort. I'll do what I need to do. That said, what's to do other than put these in the front corners? Isn't the idea that I can put my measuring tape and plumb line away and get rid of all of the little pieces of tape on the floor? Aren't corner horns less finicky about placement (of themselves *and* the listener) so long as they're in corners? I'm probably missing something here ... maybe you could clear this up? Much appreciated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 ...as I described in my post of just a minute ago) Sorry -- I had a hiatus between writing my post and sending it - Halloween preparations take precedence []. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 ...except that you'll either need two good corners or you'll have to use false in your room (looking at your picture, it looks like the latter option is the most viable). This will require a little bit of woodworking, but not much... You could also invest in a pair of Jubilee bass bins that don't require false corners, and the bass is even better than Khorns...and they can cross much higher than 400 Hz if need be. I think that with a little furniture rearranging (and with the simple closing of doors as I described in my post of just a minute ago), I actually will have two good corners -- which is part of the reason that these speakers are appealing to me. -- no doubt I'll spend just as much time working with these as with everything else. Honestly, I think that if you take a look at the rest of my system, you'll see that I'm willing to put in the effort. I'll do what I need to do. That said, what's to do other than put these in the front corners? Isn't the idea that I can put my measuring tape and plumb line away and get rid of all of the little pieces of tape on the floor? Aren't corner horns less finicky about placement (of themselves *and* the listener) so long as they're in corners? I'm probably missing something here ... maybe you could clear this up? Much appreciated... (Note: Sorry, I can't seem to break paragraphs.) I definitely think completed K-horns are where you want to go, especially given your efficiency needs. Trying to mix and match different brands and horns like Klipsch and Altec isn't likely to do what Klipsch does IMO -- create a sound field that sounds musical and UNIFORM from top to bottom. Seamless, in a word. I don't think you'll get that with Altec, though that's just my opinion. I also couldn't see both corners, but I guess closing the doors on the right will adequately complete that one. I lived for years in an apartment with an incomplete, short wall on one side of a K-horn because of a narrow entryway into a hallway, but the bass wasn't spectacular. However, you'll need to seal the walls to the sides of the K-horns, a challenge with those big wall logs, to be sure that both sides of the last stage of the bass horn (which uses the walls) have complete passageways. Also, the K's should sit flat on the floor with the floor extending a few feet in front of each one; it almost seems like the floor steps down in front of where they would go. Yes, I believe that once the K's are in their corners, you can be just about anywhere in your listening room, especially one as richly designed as yours, and it will sound about the same from everywhere. Some (including Heyser in his famous article on Klipschorns) have noted that a piano played on K-horns will sound as natural everywhere you can hear it as the real thing. You may need to update your crossovers if the caps are a couple of decades or more old. Let me put in a plug for updating to the AK-4 or AK-5 if you need to make a change and can afford it -- they are very smooth, and nicely integrate and blend the sound between the horns IMO. Bob Crites makes very good replacements as well. Congrats on your LP setup! I also have a Basis Ovation (a grand old TT), and Basis Vector arm. What cartridge? Hope this helps -- Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'm brand new here and looking for some advice on amplifier/speaker/room matching. For starters (and if the details matter), here's my system: Basis Ovation TT --> Wright phono preamp --> Jeff Korneff 76 preamp --> Jeff Korneff 45 power amp --> ??? Musical taste is primarily classical, but there's plenty of classic rock and other stuff in the mix. It's basically all vinyl for now as I update to a digital music server and pray that I have more luck with that than I ever did with a CD player(!) OK, my 45-based SET power amp has about 1-1/2 wpc on offer, and I've recently moved into a living room that's roughly 25' x 20' x 17' (cathedral ceiling). Suddenly, my Voigt pipes (mid-90s sensitivity) aren't cutting it anymore. I think I need speakers more in the 100+ dB range that are really able to fill this space. (I've had good luck with some large vintage Altecs in this room.) Also, based on where furniture is currently located, corner-dwellers would work really well. Here's a link to a picture: http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i375/Jim_Hodgson/4LivingRoom2-2.jpg Unfortunately, the site's software and my document management software do not work well together, so I can't post a pic directly in my message -- sorry... I'm mostly concerned about imaging, etc., with corner horns ... and to that end, I'm wondering what to expect from Klipschorns (or similar). That said, all of the fiddly audiophile details are starting to take a back seat in my old age to enjoying the music with someone special. Maybe I could get some thoughts and recommendations? Also, I'm totally confused about the different eras and designations ... what does "B-style" indicate, for instance? What should I be looking for exactly? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks! How much are you willing to spend?? Are you considdering buying new or used?? Is Jubilee with a beutey pannel something you have cosiddered?? Jubilee was the last speaker Paul Wilbur Klipsch worked on, and he meant for it to replace Klipschorn. I have owned La Scalas, several Klipschorns, and Pro Klipschorns and Jubilee sounds better / more articulate. Jubilee is meant for corner placement but unlike klipschorn, jubilee has the back of the horn attached, so you don't have to have a perfectly sealed corner like klipschorn. (It wouldn't matter that you can't get a good seal on those log walls, or if you left the door open, you could still listen to your music) Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crd97086 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Yes, Jubilees seem like an obvious substitution for the Khorn......but then, don't you have the added complexity of going active? The Jubilee is not a plug and play unit form owners I have talked to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Yes, Jubilees seem like an obvious substitution for the Khorn......but then, don't you have the added complexity of going active? The Jubilee is not a plug and play unit form owners I have talked to. Most go active, but you can also go passive. Either way is no big deal. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 [ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Yes, Jubilees seem like an obvious substitution for the Khorn......but then, don't you have the added complexity of going active? There is a passive crossover design for the Jubilee available from Roy Delgado (Klipsch). crd97086...what gave you that impression? Most Jubilee owners have gone to active crossovers because their use results in superior performance... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralFurious Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 Thanks so much for everyone's input so far. Maybe someone could clear up the concept of "sealed corners"? A few folks have used that term, but I'm not sure what it means. Seal what? Against what? Just to clarify ... I can definitely clear the way to two good -- but probably not great -- corners. The fact is that this is a multi-purpose room. Both front corners feature lots of wood (logs) separated by thin strips of concrete. Not much to be done there -- just the way the place was built. The front right corner has glass-paned doors down the right side wall. I can work on those -- close them (obviously) and hang a curtain over them or even cover them with a removable wood panel perhaps. But, like most of the other construction details, the doors really have to stay. They don't have to be open, though, and they don't have to have directly exposed glass. Does this sound workable? Maybe someone has a specific suggestion for what to do with this trouble corner? Thanks again ... this is really helpful. P.S. To the fellow who asked, my wallet isn't fat enough at the moment for a Vector tonearm(!) My Basis Ovation has the Graham 1.5, and cartridge selection is still being nailed down. I've had lots of them in there -- various Sumikos, Grados. Today, it's a Grace F-9E. I guess I really need to bite the bullet, though, get serious, close my eyes, hold my breath, and just go for it. Maybe a Koetsu Black? Not sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Thanks so much for everyone's input so far. Maybe someone could clear up the concept of "sealed corners"? A few folks have used that term, but I'm not sure what it means. Seal what? Against what? Just to clarify ... I can definitely clear the way to two good -- but probably not great -- corners. The fact is that this is a multi-purpose room. Both front corners feature lots of wood (logs) separated by thin strips of concrete. Not much to be done there -- just the way the place was built. The front right corner has glass-paned doors down the right side wall. I can work on those -- close them (obviously) and hang a curtain over them or even cover them with a removable wood panel perhaps. But, like most of the other construction details, the doors really have to stay. They don't have to be open, though, and they don't have to have directly exposed glass. Does this sound workable? Maybe someone has a specific suggestion for what to do with this trouble corner? Thanks again ... this is really helpful. P.S. To the fellow who asked, my wallet isn't fat enough at the moment for a Vector tonearm(!) My Basis Ovation has the Graham 1.5, and cartridge selection is still being nailed down. I've had lots of them in there -- various Sumikos, Grados. Today, it's a Grace F-9E. I guess I really need to bite the bullet, though, get serious, close my eyes, hold my breath, and just go for it. Maybe a Koetsu Black? Not sure... Older Klipschorns don't have a back on them. They use the corner walls to complete the horn. They need a tight seal against the walls for best performance. Your uneven log walls pesent a slight problem for a propper seal, as well as the glass panes in your doors. You could have some false corners built for the speakers to seal up tight against, this would help with the sound output from the bass horns. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axz Hout Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyeanderson Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 If I were youI would do some reading on this forum http://forums.klipsch.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?q=enclosed+and+backs+&o=Relevance The above is a search of enclosed AND back The AND is both qulifiers a space between words is interpreted as either or both I built this pair of encloseures, they are large and weigh about 75 Lbs. plus the weight of the Klipschorn http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/142576.aspxthere are other builds on this forum too and lots of good ideas to what works and what will not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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