dachuckster Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Check out my signature below to see the gear I have in my Theatre room; I have posted a similiar question before, but I am still not having much luck getting 2 channel music in my Onkyo & RF7s to sound as well as my living room system with Kg4s. It is hard to describe why I am not happy with the sound from my RF7s. I just dont think its sounds anywhere near as good. "Hollow" comes to mind to describe the RF7s. It could be the rooms accoustics as well. I will try to post some pictures later today as well as room dimensions, etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Describe your Theater room. Dimensions, shape, carpet or hard floor, niches, etc. Describe your living room. Same applies. As great as I think my family room systems sound, they don't sound as good as my guest bedroom systems. My family room is 16W x 32D x 12H(wide open including kitchen) with hard floors and very little soft treatments(rugs, drapes, etc.) My guest bedroom is 13W x 13D x 10H(not ideal shape) with thick drapes, carpet, and full bed dress. No matter what gear(Denon, Marantz, B&K) I run with my Heresys, the overall 2-channel sound is fuller and more enveloping. I think room size and acoustics are the key factors that come in to play in most situations. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Lots of possibilities for sure. Don't forget some of the simple things to try or check. When you mentioned the word "Hollow" it made me think of a recent experience where I had moved some equipment around and that is the word I would have used to describe what I was hearing (or not hearing). Since it was on both channels I didn't suspect a bad tube but found replacing the 2 meter Monster RCA cable with a 3 footer from Blue Jeans cables took care of it. I was running from a passive preamp so I suspect the cable was a bit too long and the signal was affected. The room has an incredible influence on the sound! I have a square room in the house where I can barely listen to anything... it just sounds horrible no matter what I put in there. I was not even going to ask the wife about putting acoustic panels in there but I read somewhere about some paintable foam panels that might blend in nicely. good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 You have nice gear but from what you are saying the synergy isn't working. Your second system is working because the Denon is a good match for your KG-4s. You have so many sources listed I can't sort that all out. Anyway, you don't show what cabling you are using but a little fine tuning with the right cables could get you in the right direction. I'm putting on my flame suit.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 dahuckster. Totally simple solution. EQ for dummies like me. Get a receiver or pre pro with the Audyssey Multi EQ 32!! Keep the mike spacing narrow, around the sweet spot only. You won't believe the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dachuckster Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Here are some fairly accurate mesurements; From the couch to the front wall is about 19 feet. the front wall is about 12 feet wide. The rear surrounds are about 8 feet behind the couch. Right now the main RF7 speakers are about 7 feet apart from the middle of the speaker to the middle of the speaker. The sub is in the right corner. Cables; XLR from Onkyo pre to the amp. Monster (good, thick) speaker wires going to all speakers. I have run the Audessy (not v32) on the Onkyo, and it helped a little. There is good thick carpeting on the floor. The little room on the right is a small bar area with a poker/card table and chairs and it measures about 10x10 and it has laminated wood flooring. The rear wall behind the couch has a fireplace and stone on the wall. I am trying to post a sketch of the room. It is a pdf file and it looks like it loaded, sorry for the poor quality. The living room is very basic, about 12x12, with one side of the room open (on the left as sitting on the couch and TV in front) to the kitchen, and carpeted floors. IMG.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 From the couch to the front wall is about 19 feet. the front wall is about 12 feet wide. The rear surrounds are about 8 feet behind the couch. Right now the main RF7 speakers are about 7 feet apart from the middle of the speaker to the middle of the speaker. The sub is in the right corner. In my opinion, your listening position is a long way from your mains and they are maybe not spaced far enough apart for proper imaging and soundstage. You have a very lopsided listening triangle that is no where near an equilateral triangle. I can see from your diagram that you are limited to where you can place your side surrounds and can see why your seating position is as far away from your mains as they are. If possible, move your RF-7's to the corners to widen that soundstage and slide your couch forward some. Consider adding another Outlaw sub to the mix. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juniper8 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 You have nice gear but from what you are saying the synergy isn't working. Your second system is working because the Denon is a good match for your KG-4s. You have so many sources listed I can't sort that all out. Anyway, you don't show what cabling you are using but a little fine tuning with the right cables could get you in the right direction. I'm putting on my flame suit.... I agree with Russ69 completly. I have read in many places that cables or connects have very little influence on what we hear, my ears tell me something very different. Like Russ says synergy is everything and voicing through all sources is important to find what you are looking for!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Totally simple solution. EQ for dummies like me. EQ has it's place, I guess but if your speakers just won't do 15 Hz or 25 kHz, how do you EQ for that? The best method is to get all you can with placement and setup, then solve the remaining problems. The OP says he's on the short wall, if I read that right, usually not the best choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dachuckster Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Bill, I have considered doing that, but the biggest obstacle to doing that is the length of my speaker wires. They are in the wall and come out of the wall directly behind the speaker. If I move the speakers out wider, I would need to extend the wires to accomodate that. The speaker wires are a straight shot from the rear of he amp to the speaker. I thought I may be able to cut them shorter and connect them to a banana plug wall plate, but the cable are so darn thick I dont know how easy that would be. I could then make a 6 foot run from the wall plate to the speaker I suppose. Should I move the sub closer to the TV, basically swapping the right speaker and the sub? Movies sound great right now. Would I get better sound in movies if I move the speakers farther out? Perhaps. Funny, but the other night I was demoing my setup to my folks, playing SNL from about a year ago when Paul McCartney was on. My mom commented on the bass drum (subwoofer) and I replied that the only thing better than a nice loud sub was two of them. My wife opened her eyes and said "WHERE IS IT?! I told her I had not bought a second sub. Yet Should I also move the couch maybe a little bit closer? Also, I really have no interest in swapping cables or power cords. But I was asked about it so I responded back regarding what I had for cables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Totally simple solution. EQ for dummies like me. EQ has it's place, I guess but if your speakers just won't do 15 Hz or 25 kHz, how do you EQ for that? The best method is to get all you can with placement and setup, then solve the remaining problems. The OP says he's on the short wall, if I read that right, usually not the best choice. Seems to me, based on his components the he CAN do wideband, so speakers are NOT the problem at all. Room EQ is the solution, trust me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 One Super Smokin Hot Wife! I checked out your system details.....hows the system sound when the SSHW is not around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dachuckster Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Nice and LOUD! [H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 dachuckster, I'd be very happy to stop by some time and help move speakers and re-arrange things to experiment to see if improvements in sound can be made. Let me know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dachuckster Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Thanks Wuzzer! Send me a PM so we can touch base. I am in the northern Metro area. Anyone have suggestions on how to extend my speaker wires? I may need to add some length to what I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I'd get something like this: Butt splice connector where you could twist your wires together inside the connector and then squeeze the connector to secure the wires. Really wouldn't be any signal degradation going that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Thanks Wuzzer! Send me a PM so we can touch base. I am in the northern Metro area. Anyone have suggestions on how to extend my speaker wires? I may need to add some length to what I have. I use silver content solder and shrink tubing. One thin shrink for the invividual wires, and a thick shrink for the whole cord. Silver is the best conductor of all metals, so it offers the least resistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Bill, I have considered doing that, but the biggest obstacle to doing that is the length of my speaker wires. Well, sometimes this hi-fi thing means making changes. The set-up of a hi-fi system is almost as important as the gear you choose. If the wife says you have to put the speakers here, that's the law but making your set-up work it's best requires that you try things that you may not be comfortable with. As always, I can only suggest the areas where I know improvements can be made. I'm only leading the horse to water, the rest is up to you. Having a hard wired set up usually creates problems down the line and leaves little or no flexibility and/or tuning capability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dachuckster Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 I hear ya! If I had my way the room wouldve been twice as big! Honestly, until I hear otherwise, movies sound terrific as is. Its the 2 channel music that I wish sounded better. I am going to move the sub closer to the side wall (keeping it almost a foot in front of the rear wall still) and move the RF7s a little more apart and see if that helps. I am also going to try defeating the Audessy EQ and manually adjust the speaker settings. I know running the Audessy really turns down the volume settings on all speakers because of the low impedence. As soon as I can pick up all the stuff in the family room (Xmas decorations, boxes, etc) I will take a photo. My system is in the thread "Lets see your home theater" on around page 60 or so. I have a new TV and Sub but its all basically the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dachuckster Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 I have tried over and over to post photos (yes, I read the simple instructions on top) but it aint working.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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