All Horn "Stack" Upgrade (see Avatar)

[ClaudeJ1]

Well this may be Heresy to those of you with fancy
electronic Xovers or, in Rigma's case, a passive pair of network that
takes 2 people to lift and costs more than my entire system.

I
removed the small B&C ME-10 tweeter horn from the B&C DE-250
drivers and bolted a QSC horn from parts express on it. This horn is
about the size of Roy's K-510 tweeter horn, but it looks like a "mini
me" of the K-402 horn (see new Avatar). I guess imitation is the
sincerest form of flattery, even in miniature form, or perhaps, a way
for QSC to get around Delgado/Klipsch patents, who knows. Either way,
this horn is very smooth and blends perfectly with the K402 both
sonically and aesthetically, if you think black and ugly is an
aesthetic. After curving different values on the tweeter section with
this new horn lens, I went back to the original capactior value that
drove the ME-10 horns, which are now bolted back onto the DE-10's, for
which, they were designed and will be on Ebay soon. Still a better deal
than used JBL Baby Cheek tweeters I started with 5 years ago.

After
extensive listning and measurements with and without the initial 2.7 mH
choke on the FH-1/K33 "cheapScala", and curving the 2.7, 1.3, and No
Choke options, I have removed the choke.

I'm using the natural
mass/horn rolloff in the bass bin, and increased the capactor value on
the K402's K1133 driver, which brings the Xover point down from 380 Hz.
to 320 Hz., since the bass bin naturally starts to roll at about 300 Hz.
measurements were done with the Audyssey EQ enabled and I did NOT
recalibrate that afterwards. Now some of you think I may be overdoing it
on the midrange, but since I listen to 75-85 db nominal most of the
time, it's just milliwattts reaching that coil. Besides that titatnium
diaphragm is designed to take a beating in large theaters, it never even
breathes heavily in my application.

Lower midrange is much
improved, but not to the level I had with the MB-1 midbass horns, which
will be on their way to another forum member shortly, but very close.
The added benefit is better imaging by a huge amount, more natural
sounding male and female vocals (spooky real as described by Dizrotus).
Also more "micro definition" for lack of a better term. I'm hearing
stuff in there that I never noticed before in my usual stack of test
CD's that exists for critial speaker evaluation at home and elsewhere.

All
horns is the way to go if you can afford the space, and the tapped horn
designs rule the subwoofer world IMHO. They have the best performance
in the smallest footprint possible for an 18-24 foot long 1/4 wave horn.

So, from the Onkyo receiver, I use the mono sub out to the
Tapped Horn's 200 W. power amp, pre-out of the R&L channels to the
60 Hz./+6db hump box to the power amp to the FH-1 "cheap Scalas"' voice coils,
and the receivers R&L amp sections to the mid and tweeter horns,
each with a single capacitor of the appropriate value. The mid and tweet
horn/driver combos are well matched in sensitivity and coverage
pattern. Like all speakers the woofer sections need progressively more
power as they cover lower bands. The FH1/K33 section needs about 5 db
more "system gain" than the mid/tweet section, hence the bi-amping.

If
I put in a CD, I get 2.1 with Audyssey automatically, with a 15 hz. to
15 Khz. response in my sweet spot, all within +/- 4 db. If I put in a
Blue Ray or DVD, I get 5.1 automatically. My sound is the best I've ever
had and it's really easy to use.

[dtel]

I'd like to hear that, wish I was closer.

Sounds like less is more.

[Marvel]

a QSC horn from parts express on it. This horn is
about the size of Roy's K-510 tweeter horn, but it looks like a "mini
me" of the K-402 horn (see new Avatar). I guess imitation is the
sincerest form of flattery, even in miniature form, or perhaps, a way
for QSC to get around Delgado/Klipsch patents, who knows.

That horn was used on an older, out of production QSC cabinet. Zilch picked up on it as one of the horns to use on the Econowave speaker project, sometime after 2007. The horn has been around awhile.

Great horn.

Bruce

[ClaudeJ1]

a QSC horn from parts express on it. This horn is

about the size of Roy's K-510 tweeter horn, but it looks like a "mini

me" of the K-402 horn (see new Avatar). I guess imitation is the

sincerest form of flattery, even in miniature form, or perhaps, a way

for QSC to get around Delgado/Klipsch patents, who knows.

That horn was used on an older, out of production QSC cabinet. Zilch picked up on it as one of the horns to use on the Econowave speaker project, sometime after 2007. The horn has been around awhile.

Great horn.

Bruce

I guess one could say that about the Altec 511 B and a host of other horns over 30 years old. PWK quoting Ralph Waldo Emerson's quote: "The excellent is new forever."

What I've learned in the last 5 years: "The bigger the horn, the better the horn."

[ClaudeJ1]

Well, I got the MWM disease at the same time as you, Christy, and Mark 1101 did. When I sold my house and moved to townhouse Condo, I couldn't get to my laundry room without climbing over my remaining MWM bins (4 was overkill but I digress).

As good as the MWM is as a bass section, it does tank at 45 hz., so adding a sub is a good move there...............SPUDS do amazing things below 40 Hz.

I like MWM bass better than Khorn bass. It seems that the fewer the folds, the better the sound. I'm told this is especially true over 200 Hz.

Next I will try a different woofer like a K43 or an EVM 15L with higher BL product to tip the curve up closer to the midrange K402, which still amazes me.

I wish you lived closer too, as I'm sure your setup rocks in a big way.

[Deang]

You sir, are a lunatic.

[IndyKlipschFan]

Wow cool!!! I want Glen In Detroit to come over and hear this... And I need to as well someday this summer!!!

[ClaudeJ1]

You sir, are a lunatic.

Coming from you, this is a compliment of the highest order, so thank you.

My goal was to get world class sound without spending a fortune. I had no choice but to look to the used Pro component market in order to achieve it. It has taken me on a 4 1/2 year journey away from the already excellent R-Khorn LaScala Center (using PWk's little resistor box, except I put a potentionmeter on mine to vary the center level depending on which house over 30 years) L-Khorn that I started with. I remember attending a Digital Photo convention at Ceasar's Palace in 1999...........co-incidentally when the CES show was winding down. I saw the name Klipsch on one of the rooms so, I got excited and went in I went in. Having spent a day with PWK 14 years before, I walked in and saw the beautiful 2-Way Jubillee with the wood horn and Roy Delgado standing there. I asked if Paul was there, hoping he would remember me. After a dirty look (like who the heck are you, look from Roy), I was told I missed him by 10 minutes and he was on his way back to Hope.

Right about the time I decided on a journey into 5.1 surround, messing with Heresy's and Cornwalls for rears and a few Choruses I's and II's to try to satisfy me (had many LaScalas over the years, especially my DJ days, but that is beyond the scope of this text). But having lived with ALL HORNS since my early 20's it was hard to go back to direct radiators. I joined this group of fellow lunatics in 2006, so I feel very comfortable here. My search for better horn sound began after my first Pilgrimage in 2007 upon hearing the JUBILEES at the Holiday Inn. After reading some of yours and other's posts, Dean, I decided to update the capactitors in my AA networks. I was amazed by the detail improvement. It was all like going down an endless water slide after that..........yyyyyyeeeeeehah and I have been trying to get back with both feet on land ever since. I think my feet are on land with this setup, but I still want to try and build a straight axis horn for the 60-400 Hz. range....even if it needs a kiss of EQ to get there, like the FH-1's do. For now, these FH-1 bins are built as solid as a rock and are close enough to real LaScalas.

I remember PWK writing that he didn't like Quadrophonic ("Who put the singer on a flying trapeze?"). I didn't like it either but I know a few people who bought into it....but, I still resisted. PWK said that if we did do it, it should still be 3 channels up front and two in the rear. I remember hearing two rear channels in 1977, that had a product with digital time delay to two additional rear speakers. I was amazed at hearing handclaps all around me on a live recording demo. I invested in that product but found it most underwhenlming and quickly sold it to an unsuspecting victim who really liked it. However, it was the precursor to modern HT, for sure.

So between mid range receiver upgrades and trying out all kinds of horn/driver combinations (not to mention the bass reflex/horn DJ setups I built in my teens and 20's that are still out there somewhere) I have been making subtle improvements along the way, and enjoyed the journey with many of you.

[ClaudeJ1]

Wow cool!!! I want Glen In Detroit to come over and hear this... And I need to as well someday this summer!!!

Well, Roger, I like you well enough to tell you that you DON"T want to hear this. Otherwise, there might be 7 sets of Pro LaScala top ends for sale on the Indy Craigslist, and you WILL be filling up your famous "extra space between bass and mid bins" with larger, and way more expensive options because used ones are very difficult to find. Took me 4 1/2 years and a flood in Nashville for me to get mine at a price I could afford. LOL.