Proposed System

[Sundevil]

Hi Everyone-

First off, I want to apologize if this is not the proper place to post this thread. I searched through the forums and this seemed to be like the right spot for this question.

I'm new to the home theater game, I've previously owned a few HTIB Panasonic systems and now that I've finished college, found myself a good job, and am starting my "life" per-say, I wanted to make a purchase that is going to last me a while.

Here is what I have in mind, please feel free to critique anything as I don't have many reasons (other than the ones listed) for my selections...

Fronts: Klipsch RF-52 II Towers

Middle: Klipsch RC-62 II

Center (my reasoning is simply based on the fact that I like hearing the dialogue and figured that a more powerful center channel would accomplish this, however if not please advice)

Rears: Klipsch RS-52 II Surround Speakers or RS-42 II (I've never had surround speakers hooked up before so I'm not sure what to go with here)

Subwoofer: Klipsch RW-12d

Reciever: Onkyo TN-NR414 5.1 Channel (I like the built in features that Onkyo provides and I've read nothing but positive reviews on this receiver. I would opt for a 7.1 receiver but I've already determined that this will always be a family room sound system and I dont think it'll ever be practical for it to be 7.1)

Power: Monster HDP-1800 8-Outlet Power Center

Thanks in advanced for any critiques or comments.

Cheers,
Sundevil

[Chris A]

Welcome to the forum, Sundevil!

To edit your message (above) to put in manual carriage returns, just hit the "edit" button on the right-hand side...but first, you might want to know about non-IE/non-Firefox browsers on this forum:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/163301/1740684.aspx#1740684

Chris[]

[dtel]

Welcome and congratulations on the new life. [Y]

[Sundevil]

Welcome to the forum, Sundevil!

To edit your message (above) to put in manual carriage returns, just hit the "edit" button on the right-hand side...but first, you might want to know about non-IE/non-Firefox browsers on this forum:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/163301/1740684.aspx#1740684

Chris

Thanks! Got it fixed now, appreciate the help!

[Beechnut]

Do you have a budget limit in mind?

I built mine over time as I could afford them and have saved myself the pains of the upgrade bug and money that comes with it. My progression was front 3, sub, then surrounds.

What you've mentioned would def last awhile. Craigslist is a great place to find good deals. Check out the forums garage sale section for other used gear.

For new gear, try Acousticsounddesign.com. Browse the site to get an idea of what you want then call and talk to MIKE for the best price. He always does a better deal over the phone.

Summary: 3 questions. How much is your budget? Where are you located? What is your listening preference? (ie 60% movie 20% game 20% music etc)

[Sundevil]

Do you have a budget limit in mind?

I built mine over time as I could afford them and have saved myself the pains of the upgrade bug and money that comes with it. My progression was front 3, sub, then surrounds.

What you've mentioned would def last awhile. Craigslist is a great place to find good deals. Check out the forums garage sale section for other used gear.

For new gear, try Acousticsounddesign.com. Browse the site to get an idea of what you want then call and talk to MIKE for the best price. He always does a better deal over the phone.

Summary: 3 questions. How much is your budget? Where are you located? What is your listening preference? (ie 60% movie 20% game 20% music etc)

Thanks for the help! I stumbled across acousticssounddesign.com a couple weeks ago and I was planning to order through them when I decide to make the purchase here relatively soon. I do like the idea of building a system the same way you mentioned. I initially thought about doing a 3.1 system since I've never had a good sub or rears, I figure a solid 3.1 will blow my mind on it's own to begin with.

As for the questions...

Budget? I'm looking to spend no more than $3000, however my comfort zone is more about the $2500 mark.

Location? I've just recently relocated to the Athens/Southeast portion of Ohio.

Craigslist? I've been actively watching craigslist for some deals the past few weeks and there's occassionally some good finds on there, however I am an uber novice when it comes to home theater systems and I don't know what to be looking for when searching the used market in terms of how people have treated their equipment. Even if there's no cosmetic damage, I dont know what sounds a speaker would make that would indicate it's on a declining path.

Listening Preference? I would say on average I'm at about 40% Movies, 40% TV, and 20% Music. I'd like to get into watching more movies though as I've just picked up a blu-ray player recently and I'm already in love with the quality improvement over a standard DVD.

Thanks again!

Sundevil

[TasDom]

Thanks for the help! I stumbled across acousticssounddesign.com a couple weeks ago and I was planning to order through them when I decide to make the purchase here relatively soon.

Like Beechnut said, you have to CALL Mike at acoustic sound design. Don't "add to cart" and place order online or you will pay wayyyy too much.

We're both speaking from experience.

[Utard]

For the sub RW-12d check out newegg sometimes at $300

I also started with the RF-52 II for the fronts but ended upgrading to the RF-82 II and moved the 52's to the rear surrounds.

The nice thing with a 7.1 receiver is even if you never use it for rear surrounds is you can set those outputs for another room for speakers for music.

The Pioneer AVR can do this. Not sure on the onkyo.

[SuBXeRo]

Welcome to the show!

The system you have picked out is pretty fine as it stands. The rc-62 II isn't perfectly timbre matched (the tweeters/crossover) with the rf-52 II's. Will they sound terrible? Nah. Will you hear that they dont mesh perfectly? You might. You'd probably get used tot he sound and it wouldn't bother you. This is just me being anal about things matching. The rf-62 II's are matched to that center. Many of us here (myself included) suffer from upgradetitus and have upgraded more than a few times because what we originally had was too small. With that said i would suggest getting the rf-62 II's at a minumum.

You can get away with the rs-42 II or rs-52 II. Surrounds are more ancillary of a speaker and are as important to timbre match to your fronstage because they are behind you. Of course they should be perfectly timbre matched but we all can't have everything right?

Monster power center is good, you are on the right path. Monster is good gear but just tends to be overpriced. You could also check out APC as an alternative (just dont get the g15 as mine emits an annoying buzz but the H15 is good!)

Are you going to be in a house or in an apartment? If you are going to be in an apartment, do not get a sub as you will piss your neighbors off and it will become a paper weight until you get a place where you can actually use it. Your subwoofer doesnt even have to be the same brand as your speakers and there are a bunch of brands out there that you will get better performance with at a better price. If you are a curious and what to check them out: www.svsound.com, www.hsuresearch.com, www.outlawaudio.com, www.emotiva.com, www.rythmikaudio.com, www.velodyne.com just to name a few!

If you are going to be in an apartment, you may want to consider reallocating some subwoofer money into your towers. In this case, jump from the rf-52 II, surpass the RF-62 II and get the RF-82 II's. You may say, Sub, you are effin crazy! Well, yes and no. They will give you a really solid bass foundation and will last you for years and years (not that the others wouldnt last years and years too). The low end from the towers can help to make up for not having a subwoofer and later on you can always add when apropriate.

Your receiver is an entry level model and don't be svelt with sticking to a 5.1 channel receiver. Most receivers now are 7.1 or 7.2 and you are shorting yourself by trying to stick with a 5.1. You don't want to skimp on your powerplant so to speak and many find that their receivers do the job but just dont give them the performance they are looking for. My suggestion though is to make sure or try to get a receiver with multichannel preamp out connections. This gives you the ability to add an external amplifier to the mix as many of us have. Most of us find that an external amp adds more dynamics and definition to sound and gives us better low end bass as well as staying clean at higher volumes. A receivers internal amp cannot compare to an external amplifier (unless its a class D amplifier where it may actually compete well) just because of the sheer mechanics it actually takes to produce good quality power.

[tmassey]

7.1 Receivers are pretty much the industry standard now. You wouldn't pay much extra, if any, for going with a 7.1 receiver from a 5.1 with the same specs. I would really check out Emotiva. You could get a UMC-1 and a UPA-500 for right around your price range. At that pricepoint, it would blow anything else out of the water, especially if you can sell the upgrade card which should go for around $175 (which would put you around 723$), while offering you better future proofing than getting a stand-alone receiver.

The guy I bought my speakers from was selling his 82ii's for 650$ for a pair. You could easily fit those into your budge as well if you are patient and wait for a deal to pop up again. Paired with the Emotiva gear I named above would give you an excellent start to your system and should leave you plenty to work with to find a RC-62, a sub, and a pair of RS-42/52s.

As far as the system you named, it would work, but I think most wouldn't be happy with the performance, especially if you are listening to 40% music or action movies. I would also recommend finding an authorized klipsch dealer you can to to listen to some of these speakers. For all we know, the 52's may be perfect for you. Or the 82s would sound better enough to you, that you would rather save your pennies for a few months to get them instead. The worst thing you can do is make your purchase and immediately be wondering "what if" if you had gone with the 82s.

[Sundevil]

7.1 Receivers are pretty much the industry standard now. You wouldn't pay much extra, if any, for going with a 7.1 receiver from a 5.1 with the same specs. I would really check out Emotiva. You could get a UMC-1 and a UPA-500 for right around your price range. At that pricepoint, it would blow anything else out of the water, especially if you can sell the upgrade card which should go for around $175 (which would put you around 723$), while offering you better future proofing than getting a stand-alone receiver.

As far as the system you named, it would work, but I think most wouldn't be happy with the performance, especially if you are listening to 40% music or action movies. I would also recommend finding an authorized klipsch dealer you can to to listen to some of these speakers. For all we know, the 52's may be perfect for you. Or the 82s would sound better enough to you, that you would rather save your pennies for a few months to get them instead. The worst thing you can do is make your purchase and immediately be wondering "what if" if you had gone with the 82s.

Just so I understand since the naming of their equipment is not something I'm framiliar with, the UMC-1 is like a standard receiver and the the UPA-500 is an amplifier. So I'd want both of them together?

I'm going to go to an authorized dealer later this week to check everything out. I'm a little worried that I might walk out of there and want the biggest baddest thing they have, haha! I visit my parents fairly often and they have the Definitive Technology BP700SC's which I realize nothing I can afford can compare to.

Thanks for the help!

Thanks for the help! I stumbled across acousticssounddesign.com a couple weeks ago and I was planning to order through them when I decide to make the purchase here relatively soon.

Like Beechnut said, you have to CALL Mike at acoustic sound design. Don't "add to cart" and place order online or you will pay wayyyy too much.

We're both speaking from experience.

Thanks! I'll be sure to call them when I'm ready to make a purchase. Anything specific I need to let them know to get the "good price? :-)

Welcome to the show!

The system you have picked out is pretty fine as it stands. The rc-62 II isn't perfectly timbre matched (the tweeters/crossover) with the rf-52 II's. Will they sound terrible? Nah. Will you hear that they dont mesh perfectly? You might. You'd probably get used tot he sound and it wouldn't bother you. This is just me being anal about things matching. The rf-62 II's are matched to that center. Many of us here (myself included) suffer from upgradetitus and have upgraded more than a few times because what we originally had was too small. With that said i would suggest getting the rf-62 II's at a minumum.

You can get away with the rs-42 II or rs-52 II. Surrounds are more ancillary of a speaker and are as important to timbre match to your fronstage because they are behind you. Of course they should be perfectly timbre matched but we all can't have everything right?

Monster power center is good, you are on the right path. Monster is good gear but just tends to be overpriced. You could also check out APC as an alternative (just dont get the g15 as mine emits an annoying buzz but the H15 is good!)

Are you going to be in a house or in an apartment? If you are going to be in an apartment, do not get a sub as you will piss your neighbors off and it will become a paper weight until you get a place where you can actually use it. Your subwoofer doesnt even have to be the same brand as your speakers and there are a bunch of brands out there that you will get better performance with at a better price. If you are a curious and what to check them out: www.svsound.com, www.hsuresearch.com, www.outlawaudio.com, www.emotiva.com, www.rythmikaudio.com, www.velodyne.com just to name a few!

If you are going to be in an apartment, you may want to consider reallocating some subwoofer money into your towers. In this case, jump from the rf-52 II, surpass the RF-62 II and get the RF-82 II's. You may say, Sub, you are effin crazy! Well, yes and no. They will give you a really solid bass foundation and will last you for years and years (not that the others wouldnt last years and years too). The low end from the towers can help to make up for not having a subwoofer and later on you can always add when apropriate.

Your receiver is an entry level model and don't be svelt with sticking to a 5.1 channel receiver. Most receivers now are 7.1 or 7.2 and you are shorting yourself by trying to stick with a 5.1. You don't want to skimp on your powerplant so to speak and many find that their receivers do the job but just dont give them the performance they are looking for. My suggestion though is to make sure or try to get a receiver with multichannel preamp out connections. This gives you the ability to add an external amplifier to the mix as many of us have. Most of us find that an external amp adds more dynamics and definition to sound and gives us better low end bass as well as staying clean at higher volumes. A receivers internal amp cannot compare to an external amplifier (unless its a class D amplifier where it may actually compete well) just because of the sheer mechanics it actually takes to produce good quality power.

Thanks for the fantastic response! This really helped me hone in on the types of things I need to be considering on this purchase.

I'm living in a townhouse and I really didn't ever consider the noise bothering my neighbors so I think it's safe to say that I'm 100% set on building a solid 3.1 system to start and then adding on the rears down the road a little bit and then a sub when I'm finally out of community living.

I'll be sure to check out APC power systems and see what they have to offer. I've been able to find a few good deals on the Monster systems but I'm not sure what size or wattage output I should be looking for. I'm continuing to do some research to make sure I fully understand the options available for the power centers.

I've never been framiliarized with an amplifier before. Is there a specific model that I should be looking at getting. I know above it was suggested by tmassey that I look at the UPA-500, I must say I really like the looks of it but I don't nessecarily understand the technical aspects of it. Is there anything specific I should know about an amplifier? I understand the basics of how it works and so forth.

I like the look and specifications on the Emotiva UMC-1 that tmassey suggested. Is that something you'd also suggest? I'd like to get the opinions of multiple people so I can look at all the equipment from every angle before I make my purchase.

Once again, I appreciate the lengthy and VERY helpful response. I'm somewhat of a noob to this, which is a shocker since most things electronics I consider myself to be an expert in (mainly PC builds). I want to absorb as much knowledge as I can about what type of system I should be looking at for my entry level system.

Thanks,

Sundevil

[SuBXeRo]

The choice to start off with a 3.0 setup is a great choice. The only negative aspect of that decision would be availability of matching components at the time of your next purchase. We never know for sure when a line will be continued, upgraded or discontinued. This generation of klipsch has been out for about a year now i believe so you should be good for another 2 years i'd think. There is also craigslist and audiogon as well if this pieces do become discontinued and is a place for you to seek them out.

Your idea of not getting something that will compare to your parents def techs...Psht! Def Techs are good quality speakers but they are certainly not horn driven klipschs. They are basically all in one type towers they have with a frequnecy extension down to 11hz. They are designed to have "mini subs" within them and those are selfpowered with an amp built into the speakers. They are a formidable pair but everything is integrated.

BP700SC
Response
11Hz – 30KHz

Impedance 8
ohms, rated 20-1,000 watts

14” 1,800 watt
super cube built in sub

4 6-1/2” mid
range drivers

2
1” aluminum dome tweeters

When you go and listen to some klipsch, keep in mind that the receivers or amp/processor combos wont be tweaked perfectly to each speaker you listen to. In most cases though, i think people are impressed when they hear klipsch for the first time. I am more of a fan of component style setups where my subs are separate from towers and nothing has built in amps but the subs (which is typical now). I also prefer my amp to be seperate from my processor.

The emotiva UMC-1 is just a processor. This unit does not have any internal power amplification to drive speakers. Its basically a receiver without the amplifier part. I have it and its a little bit qwerky but for the price its well worth dealing with its few shortcomings. Of the receivers i have used in th past, i love the UMC-1 the most because of its ability to let me customize things more than what receivers usually come with and for me, thats the game winner.

I owned an Emotiva XPA-5 amplifier and like its sound and power capabilities but it fell short in one aspect. I had a hum/buzz from all of my speakers that was not from a ground loop. It was the amplifier itself. I am not the only person to suffer this and i am not the only one to swap their XPA-5 for a different brand of amplifier. Emotiva says the topological electrical design of the XPA-5 is different than their other amps so i'd be interested in trying their other models to see how they sound. Needless to say, i changed to Outlaw Audio and couldnt be any happier. The sound is smoother and no hum/buzz. Well worth the reduction in power and increase in price to get something that works perfectly!!!

When you look at amplifiers, most of the time you are look at powers ratings (watts) @ a certain impedence (ohms) mesaured at a certain frequency (hz) and @ a certain number of channels. Power amplifiers or external amplifiers often often have 2 listed ratings, one at 8ohms and one at 4ohms. The 4ohm power rating is often 2 times the 8ohm rating but this is not a law! It often varies and could be 25% more, 50% more or litterally alot more or realyl barely anything more and just depends on the design of the amplifier. The majority of speakers are designed to have a nominal impdence of 8ohms but that is a nominal rating. The impedence and power are both dynamic and change constantly. Ok so back to amps! the difference between 4 and 8 ohms are not fixed, it isnt just one or the other and it will often dip bleow, above and anywhere in between. The amp will match the resistance of the speakers. There are a lot of other things you can compare like primary and secondary capacitance but this goes into things beyond my ability to explain and again, each amplifier has a different topology from the next model and certainly between brands. One thing i wanted to delve into further is the difference between a receivers amplifier and a stand along power amp. Receivers often weigh in around the 18-25lb mark, power amps often start at around the ~50lb mark. Part of this is because of the transformer that converts your incoming outlet power to usable power for your amp. When it comes to class A/B amplifiers, the general rule of thumb is the bigger the transformer the better and more ample the power supply is. The power supply is largely overlooked because of sheer space requirements and the fact that there are some very sensitive components within a receiver that wouldn't work as designed because of excess electromagnetic interference hence bringing the amplifier outboard and into a separate component piece. Again this is a very general overlook on amps with some very general info.

Receivers are quite capable and some are far better than the next. Receivers start to lack again in their amplifier. Most slack at their low impendence capabilities (pushing 4ohms for instance). Some speakers have bigger impendence dips than others and those with rf-7s who have driven them with an amp know that at higher volumes, their receivers go into protect mode and shutdown in order to keep them for overheating and burning out. Fortunately though most klipsch can be run on receivers quite well without any hitches. There have been some who have switch back to a reciever from an amp and noticed no benefit of the external amp while others like myself notice night and day differences. Some receivers now like a few of the higher end pioneers i believe have started using energy efficient Class D amplifiers to help boost usable power without added weight. The gripe with Class D is sound quality as the signal is digitial and different from analog class A/B power structures. Class D sheds far less heat and uses power only when it needs it whereas cclass A/B runs hot and has power more on tap so to speak.

When choosing an amplifier, you try and get something that supplies more power than the speakers can handle. You do this to help reduce the chances of clipping (sending a distorted signal to your speakers as the amplifier begins to max out its power capabilities, this is a detriment to transitior amplifiers). Klipsch is very efficient so in reality most of us need 150 watts max which if held contastly would be enough to make our ears bleed. You also want extra power to handle peaks in sound like an explosion in amovie that requires an abnormal amount of power compared to the rest of the movie or rather in relation to the average volume you are listening at. My amp is 125 watts @ 8ohms x 7 channels and i have pushed my speakers to the point of shaking my walls and to an uncomfortable level without issue. I wanted to see how capable it was and i was astounded!

This brings me to speaker sensitivity. Klipsch has high sensitivities compared to most brands and this is because klipsch uses horns. You see horns in every sports venue because of the ability to produce high amplitudes of sound while keeping clarity without sucking tons of power relative to a non horn loaded speaker. Every 3db in sensitivity means you need half as much power to achieve the same amplitude. For instance: a 96db sensitive speaker requires half as much power as a 93db sensitive speaker to reach the same volume and a 90db sensitive speaker requires 4 times less power to achieve the same volume volume as the 96db sensitive speaker.

I think this is enough for now haha. I assume you went to ASU? I graded 2009

[TasDom]

Thanks! I'll be sure to call them when I'm ready to make a purchase. Anything specific I need to let them know to get the "good price? :-)

He'll pretty much give you his best deal but it never hurts to ask if he can knock off a few more bucks to meet your budget. Keep in mind also that he will be quoting a delivered price without sales tax as well.

[Sundevil]

The choice to start off with a 3.0 setup is a great choice. The only negative aspect of that decision would be availability of matching components at the time of your next purchase. We never know for sure when a line will be continued, upgraded or discontinued. This generation of klipsch has been out for about a year now i believe so you should be good for another 2 years i'd think. There is also craigslist and audiogon as well if this pieces do become discontinued and is a place for you to seek them out.

Your idea of not getting something that will compare to your parents def techs...Psht! Def Techs are good quality speakers but they are certainly not horn driven klipschs. They are basically all in one type towers they have with a frequnecy extension down to 11hz. They are designed to have "mini subs" within them and those are selfpowered with an amp built into the speakers. They are a formidable pair but everything is integrated.

BP700SC

Response

11Hz – 30KHz

Impedance 8

ohms, rated 20-1,000 watts

14” 1,800 watt

super cube built in sub

4 6-1/2” mid

range drivers

2

1” aluminum dome tweeters

When you go and listen to some klipsch, keep in mind that the receivers or amp/processor combos wont be tweaked perfectly to each speaker you listen to. In most cases though, i think people are impressed when they hear klipsch for the first time. I am more of a fan of component style setups where my subs are separate from towers and nothing has built in amps but the subs (which is typical now). I also prefer my amp to be seperate from my processor.

The emotiva UMC-1 is just a processor. This unit does not have any internal power amplification to drive speakers. Its basically a receiver without the amplifier part. I have it and its a little bit qwerky but for the price its well worth dealing with its few shortcomings. Of the receivers i have used in th past, i love the UMC-1 the most because of its ability to let me customize things more than what receivers usually come with and for me, thats the game winner.

I owned an Emotiva XPA-5 amplifier and like its sound and power capabilities but it fell short in one aspect. I had a hum/buzz from all of my speakers that was not from a ground loop. It was the amplifier itself. I am not the only person to suffer this and i am not the only one to swap their XPA-5 for a different brand of amplifier. Emotiva says the topological electrical design of the XPA-5 is different than their other amps so i'd be interested in trying their other models to see how they sound. Needless to say, i changed to Outlaw Audio and couldnt be any happier. The sound is smoother and no hum/buzz. Well worth the reduction in power and increase in price to get something that works perfectly!!!

When you look at amplifiers, most of the time you are look at powers ratings (watts) @ a certain impedence (ohms) mesaured at a certain frequency (hz) and @ a certain number of channels. Power amplifiers or external amplifiers often often have 2 listed ratings, one at 8ohms and one at 4ohms. The 4ohm power rating is often 2 times the 8ohm rating but this is not a law! It often varies and could be 25% more, 50% more or litterally alot more or realyl barely anything more and just depends on the design of the amplifier. The majority of speakers are designed to have a nominal impdence of 8ohms but that is a nominal rating. The impedence and power are both dynamic and change constantly. Ok so back to amps! the difference between 4 and 8 ohms are not fixed, it isnt just one or the other and it will often dip bleow, above and anywhere in between. The amp will match the resistance of the speakers. There are a lot of other things you can compare like primary and secondary capacitance but this goes into things beyond my ability to explain and again, each amplifier has a different topology from the next model and certainly between brands. One thing i wanted to delve into further is the difference between a receivers amplifier and a stand along power amp. Receivers often weigh in around the 18-25lb mark, power amps often start at around the ~50lb mark. Part of this is because of the transformer that converts your incoming outlet power to usable power for your amp. When it comes to class A/B amplifiers, the general rule of thumb is the bigger the transformer the better and more ample the power supply is. The power supply is largely overlooked because of sheer space requirements and the fact that there are some very sensitive components within a receiver that wouldn't work as designed because of excess electromagnetic interference hence bringing the amplifier outboard and into a separate component piece. Again this is a very general overlook on amps with some very general info.

Receivers are quite capable and some are far better than the next. Receivers start to lack again in their amplifier. Most slack at their low impendence capabilities (pushing 4ohms for instance). Some speakers have bigger impendence dips than others and those with rf-7s who have driven them with an amp know that at higher volumes, their receivers go into protect mode and shutdown in order to keep them for overheating and burning out. Fortunately though most klipsch can be run on receivers quite well without any hitches. There have been some who have switch back to a reciever from an amp and noticed no benefit of the external amp while others like myself notice night and day differences. Some receivers now like a few of the higher end pioneers i believe have started using energy efficient Class D amplifiers to help boost usable power without added weight. The gripe with Class D is sound quality as the signal is digitial and different from analog class A/B power structures. Class D sheds far less heat and uses power only when it needs it whereas cclass A/B runs hot and has power more on tap so to speak.

When choosing an amplifier, you try and get something that supplies more power than the speakers can handle. You do this to help reduce the chances of clipping (sending a distorted signal to your speakers as the amplifier begins to max out its power capabilities, this is a detriment to transitior amplifiers). Klipsch is very efficient so in reality most of us need 150 watts max which if held contastly would be enough to make our ears bleed. You also want extra power to handle peaks in sound like an explosion in amovie that requires an abnormal amount of power compared to the rest of the movie or rather in relation to the average volume you are listening at. My amp is 125 watts @ 8ohms x 7 channels and i have pushed my speakers to the point of shaking my walls and to an uncomfortable level without issue. I wanted to see how capable it was and i was astounded!

This brings me to speaker sensitivity. Klipsch has high sensitivities compared to most brands and this is because klipsch uses horns. You see horns in every sports venue because of the ability to produce high amplitudes of sound while keeping clarity without sucking tons of power relative to a non horn loaded speaker. Every 3db in sensitivity means you need half as much power to achieve the same amplitude. For instance: a 96db sensitive speaker requires half as much power as a 93db sensitive speaker to reach the same volume and a 90db sensitive speaker requires 4 times less power to achieve the same volume volume as the 96db sensitive speaker.

I think this is enough for now haha. I assume you went to ASU? I graded 2009

Thanks again for all of the knowledge, I really enjoy getting to learn about the different aspects of what I should be looking for when piecing together my system.

To answer your question, yes I went to ASU and just graduated a month ago. Glad to have run into a fellow Sundevil that can provide some assitance in my quest to get my first real home theater system.

I'm starting to repiece my system together a bit more and I really appreciate all of the feedback I've received. It's completely changed my plan for how I'm going to construct this system. I'm going to go ahead and go with a 3.1 system to start for sure, I'm usually pretty picky when it comes to things matching but as long as it's fairly close I'm sure I'll be able to live with it.

My changed build to this point (still plenty of research left to do before my actual purchase) would be to run...

Fronts: RF-82 II's (I feel that the small price point between the 62 and 82's warrants that I spend the extra cost for the 82's)

Center: RC- 62 II (I'd really like to spring for the RC-64 II but at a "new" price it would be well out of my budget)

Receiver: Emotiva UMC-1

Amplifier: Emotiva UPA-500 (I'm certainly going to do some research on the issue you mentioned or consider looking in other places for a more reliable amplifier like you suggested. I'm still a bit lost on calculating how much power I need to have put out by the amplifier to be "above" the max limit like you mentioned in your post)

Power Supply: Monster HDP 2500 or another alternative, I know as a reference my parents have been using a Panamax for the better part of 10 years now and it's still humming along from what I can tell (I'm still a bit confused on what I need to look for when I'm selecting how big I need my power supply to be, is it just adding all the Watt peaks together for all the components I'd be running?).

Thanks for all the help and support from everyone that's commented so far! I really appreciate the help and it's really helping me piece together a better system overall.

Sundevil

[Sundevil]

Thanks! I'll be sure to call them when I'm ready to make a purchase. Anything specific I need to let them know to get the "good price? :-)

He'll pretty much give you his best deal but it never hurts to ask if he can knock off a few more bucks to meet your budget. Keep in mind also that he will be quoting a delivered price without sales tax as well.

Great! With my proposed system changing constantly by the day, I'm going to need to find some savings anyway I can! Thanks!

[TasDom]

Great! With my proposed system changing constantly by the day, I'm going to need to find some savings anyway I can! Thanks!

LOL You're quite welcome but I only wrote a couple of sentences where as SubXero wrote an editorial. I think he deserves much more praise than me........great input dude!

[Sundevil]

Great! With my proposed system changing constantly by the day, I'm going to need to find some savings anyway I can! Thanks!

LOL You're quite welcome but I only wrote a couple of sentences where as SubXero wrote an editorial. I think he deserves much more praise than me........great input dude!

Couldn't agree more. It was a fantastic write-up. I'm still trying to process all of the information so I completely understand all the parameters I need to make sure I satisfy with the Amplifier and Power Supply.

Big shoutout to SubXero for the lengthy and VERY educational posts. They've really helped me understand the home theater process a lot more!

[ivanhurd]

I think you'll be surprised at the prices you find when you actually talk to a dealer and you may easily be able to upgrade into more speaker than you thought you could afford before. I got my whole system (minus the receiver) for around what your budget is. So by not getting the rears (RB-81 IIs) and going with the RS-52 or 42 IIs, you should be able to use that saved money and get a nice receiver and you'll be set.

[Sundevil]

I think you'll be surprised at the prices you find when you actually talk to a dealer and you may easily be able to upgrade into more speaker than you thought you could afford before. I got my whole system (minus the receiver) for around what your budget is. So by not getting the rears (RB-81 IIs) and going with the RS-52 or 42 IIs, you should be able to use that saved money and get a nice receiver and you'll be set.

I haven't talked to any dealer's yet but I'll be sure to check with everyone here when I get some pricing to make sure that it's a relatively good deal before making my purchase.

I got my parents to lend me their Def Tech rear's yesterday that were in a box in their basement since they don't have them setup. So I have some rears in the meantime to tide me over until I can afford some myself.

[SuBXeRo]

Some people have issues with their XPA-5's while others have ones that are dead silent. Its either an anomoly with some models, some people don't hear it or something else. I have ruled out my other equipment since i have zero issues now.

The UPA-500 in my opinion is better than a receivers amp section because it has 4 ohm stability and is designed to be a standalone power amp. That amp at 8ohms should be producing on average more than what receivers typically output. If you look at benchmark reviews of receivers youw ill find that the 120watt X 5 rating is a load of crap and you are only getting 120 watts X 1 or 2 channels if lucky. All channels driven you get about 50-70% of the stated rated wattage (kind of sad but thats marketing for you, the poor consumer gets screwed). Some companies more accurately reflect their power capabilities than others like Harman Kardon has typically done in the past but as a rule of thumb, expect a decent power loss with all channels driven.

A solid 80 watts X 5 channels is equivalent to a good quality receiver upwards of $1000 bucks (for the most part although a lot of money doesnt always mean a good product) really and has the perk of the 4ohm stability which most receivers don't carry (some are 6ohm stable most arent 4ohm stable). Power amps are pieces of equipment that if built well can last for 20 years. There are some on here that buy 10 year old amps used that are rock solid and are still kicking! Don't short change yourself when buying a power amp as it can last for a long time!

Financial restraints suck but as i have said before (and i dont always obey my own motto but i try my hardest) but wait and save so you can get what you want. its expensive to upgrade over and over again but if you dont mind some financial loss along the way, thats okay then!

I was just in az 3 weeks ago since my sister graduated from there too! it was some great weather out there. I am probably moving back out towards the years end around jan-feb most likely!