endover Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I just fishing around here...which usually gets me in trouble with my wife later on but... Last year I decided to permanently unplug my HK7200 which was purchased for about $1300 back in 2004 and (technology) upgrade to an Onkyo TX-NR709 for my home theatre system. I took a huge step up in technology and HDMI "ease of use" which my family loves however...sound-wise, there is no comparison to the fullness and power of my HK7200 thru my Chorus II's. The money wasn't in the budget at the time to stay at the same quality level. All that being said, IF, IF, IF I was to add a really good quality pre-amp to my Onkyo, what recommendations would you guys have? Budget-wise, I was hoping I could get back to that "fullness" sound if I spent "around" $400. I'm okay with used or new as long as it's of good quality. I'm only running 5.1 and realistically, will never go higher than that. What should I be looking for on Craigslist or Ebay? Also...I've never used a preamp before like this (or ever for that matter), what happens to the amps inside the Onkyo once I plug the pream pin? Do they still power up and generate heat? Do they get used along with the preamp? Does the circuitry see that a preamp has been plugged in and then shut themselves down to save power (and heat generation)? Is there any way to use the amp from my HK7200 and get that plugged into my Onkyo (which would save me lots of money and make my wife very happy? Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 All that being said, IF, IF, IF I was to add a really good quality pre-amp to my Onkyo, what recommendations would you guys have? I don't think you can use the Onkyo's internal amps with an outboard preamp unless the Onkyo has "main in" inputs or the preamp has an HT bypass feature. If your HK has main ins, you could use the Onkyo as a pre but you would still be relying on the Onkyo's sound signature which you describe as not having "fullness". what recommendations would you guys have? Budget-wise, I was hoping I could get back to that "fullness" sound if I spent "around" $400. I'm okay with used or new as long as it's of good quality. I'm only running 5.1 and realistically, will never go higher than that. What should I be looking for on Craigslist or Ebay? If you don't have to have HDMI, may I suggest Boston_Klipsch's B&K Reference 50 S2. It is a phenominal prepro that will sound far better than many receivers and prepros out today. Not all the modern features as current offerings but top notch sound and build quality. http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/164062.aspx Another option would be to use your Onkyo as the main hub and add a preamp(with HT bypass)/amp combo. Here is a Parasound pair local to me. More $$$ than you want to spend but would definitely meet your needs in what you are trying to do. Looks to be in great condition. Where in Florida are you? http://orlando.craigslist.org/ele/3018621781.html Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted June 9, 2012 Moderators Share Posted June 9, 2012 I can understand your thoughts comparing your Onkyo with your previous HK. I've had the same experience with my setup. I really love the sound of HK. I believe it was Fish who recommended the HK 354 to me back when I was considering between the HK 3600 and the Emotiva UMC-1. Here is an HK 354 that was just posted in the garage section. Link. I'm not sure if it has the features you need as I believe it is an older unit. Can't remember if it has the new audio formats but if your bluray player can bitstream, your receiver does not have to have those codecs. The Bluray will do the decoding for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endover Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 HDMI is a must-have at this point otherwise, I'd have stayed with the HK. The HDMI is just to convenient when you have other family members using the system (as well as babysitters, etc). The 709 is very simple to use and has great features. I was hoping there was a preamp out there that would let me bump up the sound quality by bumping up the power and still stay in that $400 range (for 5.1). I'm about an hour East of Orlando. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmassey Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Unfortunately with that unit, the only thing you are going to be able to do to improve sound quality is to add an external amplifier. It should help you out, but as far as getting back to the sound of the HK you like, you might be out of luck. An Emotiva UPA-500 falls right in your price range, and they have a pretty good money back guarantee. Unfortunately, Onkyos are somewhat known to not have a very magical sound, so there is a good chance even with the UPA-500 boosting your power, you still wouldn't be back to where you want to be. Other than that and without risking breaking the bank for nothing, you may be better off sending the Onkyo back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endover Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 So I'm a bit corn-fused.... (which isn't that unusual) so can you help me out. Whats the difference in an "external" amp and a "pre" amp. I have never done anything but purchased a good quality A/V unit and plugged everything into it and let-er rip. This thing where you hook different amps up isn't familiar. Also...that UPA-500 is only 80 watts? The Onkyo is already 110. Even if it's a "ture" 80, why should that sound better than the 110 (which may not be a true 110) from my Onkyo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Whats the difference in an "external" amp and a "pre" amp The preamp sends the unamplified signal to an outboard amplifier which in turn powers the speakers. If your receiver has preouts, it can be used as a preamp or preamp/processor and send a signal/signals to an outboard amp or amps. The preamp is the main hub in which all your sources(DVD player, CD player, cable box, etc.) are connected to. Also...that UPA-500 is only 80 watts? The Onkyo is already 110. Even if it's a "ture" 80, why should that sound better than the 110 (which may not be a true 110) from my Onkyo. Hook your main(fronts) speaker to the front left-right speaker terminals on your Onkyo and use the UPA-500 to drive your center and surrounds. You then should get a true 110w/channel from your fronts and a true 80w/channel from your remaining speakers. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 My first receiver was the very same 7200 model you had. To jump up in sound quality, I had to go to a seperate pre/pro and external amplification. The 7200 is a beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endover Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 Okay Willand...so...based on your input there...and the fact that the TX-NR709 DOES have pre-outs, what amp do you recommend in that price range(new) or do you have one I could keep an eye out for on Craigslist that's of good quality that's also in that price range. This is great! I'm getting quite the education here. Of course it's only "really" great if I end up improving my sound quality. (Keeping in mind that it doesn't suck now...it's just not what I remember it from my HK) I'm not sure that Emotiva trick listed above will give me much of a difference but I do like the possibility of being able to try it and return it if it doesn't work like I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmassey Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 The only amp that I could think of in that price range that would actually be worth your time is the Emotiva UPA-5 which is 125 watts all channels driven. It retailed for 549, but unfortunately is discontinued so you would have to wait for a used one to pop up somewhere. But after the price of it being used and depending on where it's being shipped from, it should fall right on or under your budget. And now that I think about it, it would do you very well because it would give you the option down the road to eventually get just a processor like the UMC-1 or any other that you choose, if you wish to upgrade. Overall, adding an amp to your system is very cost effective just in the sense that they lose very little value and are extremely future proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhurd Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 but if your bluray player can bitstream, your receiver does not have to have those codecs. The Bluray will do the decoding for you.Correction: For your bluray to do the decoding, you would set it to PCM. Bitstream is the AVR decoding, which is why you get the 'pretty lights' on your AVR telling you what format it's in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Devil's advocate here. If your player has analog 5.1 out, you could let the player decode and send the analog signal to the 7200. Use the HDMI to go to the display (if they're both live simultaneously). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmassey Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Hey Endover, check out XPA-5 in the garage sale thread This would be a fantastic amp for you, and it is extremely well priced, especially considering it includes shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Okay Willand...so...based on your input there...and the fact that the TX-NR709 DOES have pre-outs, what amp do you recommend in that price range(new) or do you have one I could keep an eye out for on Craigslist that's of good quality that's also in that price range. Well one of my Acurus A200FIVE amps is for sale but their is some interest from a couple of other forum members, one semi-local(Miami) and one not even close to local(Canada). I prefer not to ship but will since I do have the original box. I will sell the Acurus for $750.00. It is in great condition. I will formally list it in the Garage Sale section if the ones that showed interest decline. Here is a teaser photo. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajoker2c Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 and one not even close to local(Canada). I prefer not to ship but will since I do have the original box. Go local first Williand, I'm showing interest as I'm looking for something like that and would prefer to help out a forum member ,but only if your not getting nibbles in US. Good luck but shouldn't last long with the others needing this great ampcloser to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Go local first Williand, I'm showing interest as I'm looking for something like that and would prefer to help out a forum member ,but only if your not getting nibbles in US. Good luck but shouldn't last long with the others needing this great ampcloser to you. Steve, That is very noble of you.[A][Y] You are technically 2nd in line but if you are willing to give up your spot to a local guy, I am sure he thanks you and it would make it easier on me.[] Another fine example of why we have something special in this community. Thanks, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajoker2c Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Go local first Williand, I'm showing interest as I'm looking for something like that and would prefer to help out a forum member ,but only if your not getting nibbles in US. Good luck but shouldn't last long with the others needing this great ampcloser to you. Steve, You are technically 2nd in line but if you are willing to give up your spot to a local guy, it would make it easier on me. I wish the "locals" had the gear you guys have at the prices your looking for. Go local Bill !! The search continues, until then my trusty Dallas sent Carver A705 will keep me content! Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I wish the "locals" had the gear you guys have at the prices your looking for. Go local Bill !! The search continues, Steve, I sent you a PM. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endover Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 All I can say is that you guys aren't doing anything healthy for my marriage! Somehow I went from a $400 addition to salavating over a 200 wpc amp. Sooooo...I need to do some thinking this weekend. I actually have a pair of La Scala's I'm thinking about offloading becuase my wife says they look hideous. Maybe it's time I think harder about getting rid of those and using the cash to to invest in one of these nice amps. If I did look at the higher wattage amp (Emotiva or Acuru), I totally understand how it will drive my Chorus II's but will it overdrive the rest of my center/surrounds (see my equipment list). Also..my sub goes into "standby" mode if no signal is being sent to it which is a feature I really like. Do these higher quality amps have a similar feature or do I need to manually get up and power up the amp every time I want to watch a movie? My Onkyo is not "switched"...I should have bought the next model up to have gotten that feature. By the way...thank you guys for the offers on the amps....depending on the outcome, I may be interested if they're still around. I'm in no rush here so I want to make the best decision and I don't have a ton of money to play with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhurd Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 ^^^Doesn't the 709 have 12v outs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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