mark1101 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I'd like someone to find a small horn that can sound big. Hasn't happened yet. I remember the Khorn vs. the Jub side by side............were not supposed to talk about that. These guys and their small horns will just need to figure it all out one step at a time. The cool thing is the test will be quick, and the attendees won't desire to repeat it. .[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 Fella's, Let's not get ahaed of ourselves just yet and NO Mark, you have not "Tainted" anything at all. I'm sure that Roy's settings are superb on the DX 38 and I can just hardly wait to hear the K 402's with the TAD's. BTW: I am NOT going to be the only one that hears and judges the sound. Let's not rush it and make pre-mature predictions, as neither of you know me or what my taste are in music. Believe me, we will put the Horns through the ringers and see what shakes out. Claude: Do you know WHO is the Quartet singing on the CD that you left with me? I'm patiently awaiting Adapters and delivery of the DX 38 W. C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 Mark, You are close enough....WHY don't you slide on up for a visit....? It would be a riot and you can make sure that I do not make any mistakes in setting up the DX 38.....Athens, is just down the road from Charlotte....I can definately furnish the beer, just ask Claude about the dedicated beer cooler.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 Mark, Meant to add...You would probably like my MCM 1900 collection....It now totals five complete sets of Four Ways with the M 4 crossovers. This is the system that we use at the Airfield...it really IS pretty awesome when they are set up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 email sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 Mark, Received and Replied to.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 The Electro-Voice® HP640 Despite the directivity specs, that horn doesn't make the top tier in audio quality in my book....never been a fan of diffraction slots (even when they're big). Btw, Claude...how you liking that QSC tweeter? I'm currently running one of those in my setup - the polars on that little guy are quite good actually and mate extremely well to a 15" woofer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Have you even heard this horn? It's different, and does not have a tall, narrow slot,with a long tail. It sounds better than a HP940, and vastly better than the JBL 2380, 2360, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 The Electro-Voice® HP640 Despite the directivity specs, that horn doesn't make the top tier in audio quality in my book....never been a fan of diffraction slots (even when they're big). Btw, Claude...how you liking that QSC tweeter? I'm currently running one of those in my setup - the polars on that little guy are quite good actually and mate extremely well to a 15" woofer. It's the best sounding tweeter I've ever owned. It's like a "mini 402" and the DE-250 rivals the top end of a TAD Beryllium 1"driver at 1/10th the price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I think it's the Fairfield Four Claude: Do you know WHO is the Quartet singing on the CD that you left with me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Have you even heard this horn? It's different, and does not have a tall, narrow slot,with a long tail. It sounds better than a HP940, and vastly better than the JBL 2380, 2360, etc. Yep - I definitely agree that it's better than the 2380, but it's not in the same class as the K510, K402, or QSC that have just as smooth polars, but do it with a better acoustic impedance without diffraction... The thing I like about the QSC is the 1" throat, which pushes the throat dominated polars up above 13kHz instead of 6.5kHz for the 2" throat drivers. The BMS-4550 tweeter should be good for 500Hz at low SPL's on the right horn (not the QSC) and it arguably has better decay behavior than the Berrylium diaphragms at lower SPL's. The way they do the phase plug is really clever too, so even at 20kHz it's barely starting to beam (unlike the TAD that focuses in crazy style to make the on-axis look flatter). I hear the D220 is a really good driver too - I've been meaning to try one to see for myself. I went the Eminence PSD route for another build and was a bit dissapointed with all the resonances that had to be notched (I used every EQ bank on my XTi. Btw Claude, have you tried mounting the tweeter between your LF and MF instead of way up on top? I've never been a 3-way guy myself, but that's something I've always wondered about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 The BMS-4550 tweeter should be good for 500Hz at low SPL's on the right horn (not the QSC) and it arguably has better decay behavior than the Berrylium diaphragms at lower SPL's. Do you have data or links to data that we can see? Thanks, miketn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 I think it's the Fairfield Four Claude, Dead on....... Fairfield Four singing Roll JOrdan Roll .....I kniow this is going to sound silly, but on the CD, it sounds like Roll JErden Roll, and the thought of the City of Jordan never even crossed my mind. Hence all of the searches I did turned up nothing.....Thanks again. Though the sound is crappy, there is a bunch of good stuff on them, on YouTube....They do a five part A Capella and the bass singer is pretty impressive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 The BMS-4550 tweeter should be good for 500Hz at low SPL's on the right horn (not the QSC) and it arguably has better decay behavior than the Berrylium diaphragms at lower SPL's. Do you have data or links to data that we can see? Thanks, miketn Data makes it no fun [] (click to make bigger) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Since DrWho has thrown in 1" drivers now for polar reasons and quality performance involves more than just polar response in the real world I think a person has to ask what have you lost in performance going from 2" to a 1" driver? Is it possible that the area that a 2" driver excels could have a higher priority than where the 1" driver is going to excel? Until I hear different I believe I will stay with 2" Drivers/Horns for 2-way designs. heli001 please let me know if you don't want us going off on these tangents in your thread and to take it to another thread. miketn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 DrWho do you have a link so I can fully understand the test conditions? Again Thanks miketn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Since DrWho has thrown in 1" drivers now for polar reasons and quality performance involves more than just polar response in the real world I think a person has to ask what have you lost in performance going from 2" to a 1" driver? Is it possible that the area that a 2" driver excels could have a higher priority than where the 1" driver is going to excel? Until I hear different I believe I will stay with 2" Drivers/Horns for 2-way designs. You have 4x the radiating area with a 2" driver so you're going to have 6dB less IMD for the same bandwidth. Now if you reduce the bandwidth for the 1" driver by an octave, then I think you're looking at the same IMD? The first breakup modes for the 2" driver are going to be an octave lower than the 1" unless you make the diaphragm thicker - thicker diaphragm, larger voice coil, more moving mass - it basically offsets the efficiency gains you would expect from the larger diaphragm and now you've got more inductance...or you keep the efficiency up and let it ring a bit more. The advantage of the 1" is that you'll have less inductance and less mass so you need less CD EQ up top. Power handling and thermal linearities usually aren't issues in the home environment (or at least shouldn't be), so it all really comes down to the doppler effect on the diaphragm motion - or the intended bandwidth. I personally prefer the sound of IMD over the sound of metallic ringing, but it's definitely an intentional tradeoff. I'm sure as my hearing declines with time that I'll probably start swinging back the other way - but right now breakup modes in the 10-15kHz region make cymbals sound unrealistic to me. I would argue though that it makes more sense to have an unfolded horn that covers the 80Hz to 1kHz bandwidth and then add a subwoofer, rather than try to cover 40Hz to 500Hz with a folded horn and run no subwoofer...but then you're not looking at a Jub LF anymore, and then a higher xover frequency makes the 2" less interesting than a 1" in my opinion. Maybe one of these days I'll actually get around to building one and then we can have some blind shootouts [H] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 Mike and Mike, You guys are fine witjh the tangents for now as I am waiting on some stuff to get here anyway and what you are discussing is very interesting. I will Corral you guys back in when we get ready to start the test. Just remember, the basis for this thread IS the K 402 Horn, which is 2". To me discussing 1" drivers is very irelevent to the topic....But you guys have fun....Isn't that what it is all about? W. C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 You could always use a 2" adaptor if you wanna compare a 2" driver to a 1" driver.....heck, that's how several 2" drivers are constructed anyway. [] Btw, here's the most info I could find on that plot: 1) Radian 950PB+Truextent (beryllium), JMLC-3502) BMS 4590, JMLC-200T3) STX D1500Ti, JMLC-3504) BMS 4538, E-JMLC-1000. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/166312-waveguides-horns-52.html When I was at NAMM last January I saw more documentation showing similar results, and then there was another article that I haven't been able to find yet. Here's some info from the Be guys:http://almin.memberclicks.net/assets/Documents/WinterSymposia/InvitedPapersWS2011/m.buck-beryllium%20domes%20for%20large%20compression%20drivers-alma%20ws%202011.doc.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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