ClaudeJ1 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Claude, Why would a 510 be overkill, but the tweeter you have is not? I don't get that. I thought that in your case the real reason for the tweeter was the 1133. There are several drivers you could replace that with that would allow you to take full advantage of the 402 without a tweeter. In fact, with your less is more approach, and smaller room, I'm a little surprised you feel you need a tweeter and more crosover points. If you had a pair of Tads, woudl you still keep your tweeter for the reasons you state? It's a matter of necessity and cost. Since I'm not blasting through a move screen, I don't need a "tweeter" with a 2" throat. Quite overkill for home, JC's setup notwithstanding. Since I wanted to drop my height stack down, the biggest to get rid of was the MB-1 midbass. THAT was a big hole to fill, sonically speaking, so those duties are now shared between the FH-1/EVM15L woofer and the 402/1133. BUT in order to do that, I needed to get the Xover point to 320 Hz.......Done.........Gread midbass and midrang. But, the 1133 dives at 5K, so I needed a tweeter upgrade to replace TWIN DE-10's, which wasn't the best way anyhow. So I spent the money on B&C DE-250's. They are the "poor man's 1" TAD." I was able to put the money from the sale 4 big horns and drivers towards what's in my Avatar now AND improve performance, since it moves all the drivers closer together. I may, in the future try to use the Faital Pro driver in a 2-way, but for now the 3-way is an improvement over the 4-way..............all on a tight budget, which is the immovable force here....................otherwise, I would probably go with a 2-way TAD bur $2500 is too rich for my blood for what I would consider now marginal improvment vs. what I have. But I applaud those who have gone that direction. I heard Rigma's and the cymbals do have LIFE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Roy posted this..... the k-1133 is strictly meant for mid. the k-1132 is a driver that meets thx spec. that was before these extended top end drivers came out. thx applies a known amount of boost to the top end so it expects a certain amount of rolloff. if is doesn't have that roll off, the top end is too bright. the k-69 and bnc75 are the extended top end drivers that we use so i would use either for your application. intuitivly speaking.....I continue to be confused with the 1132 which has a snout and 1133 which does not....I would expect the 1132 with the snout to be a mid driver and the 1133 with out the snout to be the wide range driver ...but it's reversed. EQ and other gimmicks aside....if you use an 1133....you certainly can use a k-69 or k-70-g as a tweeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Three and a half hours later and I must say....a few BUD's....!, a little frustration and some drilling on the drill Press....WE have a TAD mounted to the K 402. First thing, other than the holes on the wide flange end lining up with the K 402 flange....Nothing and I maen NOTHING, lined up......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Adapter bolted to the K 402 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Since I had to drill out the threads in the Adapter and use standard 1/4-20 hex heads, there was really no way to tighten them up so I went back to the Drill Press and drilled through the outer flange, letting me use a Ball Socket tool to tighten them up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Well as was expected....The bolt patteren on the TADS matched absolutely NOTHING on the Adapter, so....Back to the Drill Press for new holes....can anyone say Swiss cheese.....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speakmeister Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Speakerfritz, can you explain what you mean by snout? The 1132 originally came in two versions one for a 1.4" driver and another with an adapter for 2" drivers, the 2" is the one that survived and is still available today. i don't believe the 1133 ever came in the 1.4" version, so it would have always had the adapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speakmeister Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Yep, I found that too, the only thing the adapter does out of the box is adapt the 1.5" to 2" driver mine have at least three different sets of holes to line up different drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 It is finall mounted and ready to play some music through except for the fact that I am waiting on a Bracket Assembly, to support the driver, which should be here Monday.......The piece of 3/4" scrap for support just isn't cutting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 the TAD's are threaded 5/16-24. You would think that maybe they would standardize them....? Just a note: the drawing for the TAD shows M7 for the adapter to driver. I know the stock TAD adapter is 1/4-20 at the horn mount end. If I remember correctly the K69-A is M6 I have used stainless steel set screws with nuts and washers for my drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 BTW.....The Beyma CP 750ND bolted right up to the K 402. NO testing today, but we have a great start on tomorrow and actually, the Budweiser is rulling the rest of the afternoon................[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Mike, You are, of course right, as they all are Metric and 1/4-24 is pretty damn close to 6 mm and 5/16-24 is VERY close to 7 mm. I'm sorry, as I was just purely too lazy to do the Metric thing. The bolts I used are actually ALL Metric....sorry if I caused any confusion. I have been known to use a Metric wrench on SAE Bolts...........and vice versa.......! W. C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Mike, I am hoping to get the actual TAD adapters for 2", but for testing purposes, the Martin Adapters work just fine......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Hey W. C. Looks good.....I can't tell from pictures....but do you have a gasket between the K402 and adapter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Mike, Not yet, as I am really waiting on the Bracket Assembly to come, as it has a plate that goes on the flange of the K 402 and THEN I will put something in there to seal it. This has all been a drill, align and dry fit day. I just might ahve to hook the speaker wires up tomorrow though, as the suspense is killing me......![6] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 There is another thread going on about MiniDSP's. I'm kind of wondering if this might be a good test bed for one of them, since we are trying multiple drivers and will ultimately, I am sure, want to play with cross points and slopes. If you guys would reccomend the one to get to try, I will certainly order it and see how it works for this application. I have purely always been a passive guy but I am certainly willing to give new technology a go. From what I have read, it looks like all of the needed settings are easily entered through a LapTop connection (USB) and I would presume that Roy's settings could also be entered into the MiniDSP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 The one I have been looking at is the 4x10 in a box. That has the most I/O (4 in/10 out) and would be able to control multiple systems simultaneously, and 4-way and 5-way systems such as your MCMs and subs. Excellent for the type of A/B testing you want to do as well. It's $500. It is the only model with compression and limiting which is unnecessary for music listening..............but pretty much required for commercial sound like you do. However, I'd defer to Gotover as he actually has one of these things. He may have some comments that makes another model a better choice. Edit: As far as Roy's settings go, unles you get an EV processor all bets are off. You can enter his settings but probably will only come close in performance due to differences in processors. That said, you can use various software tools to improve the approximation. I know I'm not exact but very close. It's satisfying enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 Mark, That's what I was kinda thinking. Replacing the passive M - 4's on the MCM's would be great, but I must say that the crossovers really do a pretty stellar job. You know the old addage: "If it's working, why mess with it" thing.......The 4 x 10 sure does open up a bunch of options. Yes, I would also like to hear from Dave before I pull the trigger on 500 dollars for a play thing.....[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 Edit: As far as Roy's settings go, unles you get an EV processor all bets are off. You can enter his settings but probably will only come close in performance due to differences in processors. That said, you can use various software tools to improve the approximation. I know I'm not exact but very close. It's satisfying enough. We are hopefully, going to be getting a loaner DX - 38, as I actually want to set them up with Roy's settings, like the majority of the other K 402's are running. That is supposed to be the "TRUE" Comparitor for the testing.....you know 'Does this sound better than that?"....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 There is another thread going on about MiniDSP's. I'm kind of wondering if this might be a good test bed for one of them, since we are trying multiple drivers and will ultimately, I am sure, want to play with cross points and slopes. If you guys would reccomend the one to get to try, I will certainly order it and see how it works for this application. I have purely always been a passive guy but I am certainly willing to give new technology a go. From what I have read, it looks like all of the needed settings are easily entered through a LapTop connection (USB) and I would presume that Roy's settings could also be entered into the MiniDSP. The easiest and cheapest way to play with Xovers is the less than $300 Behringer DCS2496. It is very easy to configure using a combination of presest and settiings from it's mini graphics display on the front panel. You can even make changes while the music is playing and hear it immediately. I would highly recommend you go that route for playing around instead of Mini DSP and others, which have to be programmed wihtout conveniences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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