ClaudeJ1 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 But don't the handles provide for more grip for the bottom end? Sorry I could not help myself. Best regards Moray James. Moray / Speakerfritz / Claude: I stumbled onto a Nelson Pass Open Slot Baffle design that might interest you guys. I'm trying to link the the article, no luck. Type in Open Slot Baffle Nelson Pass (google).2S2P O Read this before. It's more of a subwoofer design, than a mid bass horn, so it's apples and elephants vs. the title of this thread, which we seem to forget for some reason. You did not ask me for the plans for my straight axis horn, so I didn't bother to scan them. What do you really want to build? or are you just trying to gather data for fun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2sick2pray Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 Claude: Your right, I'll keep to the subject at hand. I am very interested in your straight axis design, and will be grateful for the info. Not an exercise for fun. I am trying to get a wonderful nearfield experience,and an open venue capability all in one. Like I said earlier, I want the bins in various venues with an eye of exposing people to the DIY world. All this is very important to me and I do appreciate all the help you members have added to the thread. Regards 2S2P PS. I think I will stick to Volvotretter's Sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 The tapped horn in the link ( Othorn ) won't go very high, it's a dedicated device for the sub bass. A single cabinet was able to produce close to 140 db / 1m before the driver's cone folded up. There isn't any data posted at the Data-Bass website, as the test was incomplete. As soon as Ricci gets time to test another driver and have a complete data set, it should be up on his site. Proven performer... -10 db at 32 hz? I would build an Othorn, one 21 inch B&C driver, one 4kw amp, and call it a day. One person can easily move it around with the help of a dolly. It goes just about as loud as the MTL4 with one driver, and does much better on the bottom end. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1350233/the-othorn-tapped-horn I looked at the link and could not find the max SPL. The EV MTL4 is 140db's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 The tapped horn in the link ( Othorn ) won't go very high, it's a dedicated device for the sub bass. A single cabinet was able to produce close to 140 db / 1m before the driver's cone folded up. There isn't any data posted at the Data-Bass website, as the test was incomplete. As soon as Ricci gets time to test another driver and have a complete data set, it should be up on his site. Proven performer... -10 db at 32 hz? I would build an Othorn, one 21 inch B&C driver, one 4kw amp, and call it a day. One person can easily move it around with the help of a dolly. It goes just about as loud as the MTL4 with one driver, and does much better on the bottom end. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1350233/the-othorn-tapped-horn I looked at the link and could not find the max SPL. The EV MTL4 is 140db's. thats the problem with sub bass devices...they go low and loud...but don't go very wide.....The EV MTL4 is prefect for PA use covering 40hz to 225hz and -10db at 32hz while cranking out 140db's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted September 28, 2012 Moderators Share Posted September 28, 2012 Coytee youre kidding? that was a joke right??? It was funny though. Best regards Moray James. He didn't think anyone noticed, you caught him, I had to go back and check to make sure it was Coytee who posted that, thought I misread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Coytee has been on a little tear telling Claude that he was being too sensitive maybe we should start bugging him about all the dust in his pictures to get even. We all know that a well played loud speaker has no dust in the horn how could it? Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Claude: Your right, I'll keep to the subject at hand. I am very interested in your straight axis design, and will be grateful for the info. Not an exercise for fun. I am trying to get a wonderful nearfield experience,and an open venue capability all in one. Like I said earlier, I want the bins in various venues with an eye of exposing people to the DIY world. All this is very important to me and I do appreciate all the help you members have added to the thread. Regards 2S2P PS. I think I will stick to Volvotretter's Sub. Volvotreter's sub is fine. He also did a great job with is conical horn's back chamber, which is ideal for the EVM 15L, which has amazing detail and "speed" in my FH1/SP1 cabs.after EQ of course. Instead of his symmetrical square throat, I made mine rectangular, along with the mouth to match my K402's. Then went a full meter length from throat to mouth, while making the mouth larger and roughly 20x40" so it matches the k402's. It's flat to 80 Hz. and about 6 db down at 70, which is where I want to cross. Making the mouth bigger or the horn longer had diminishing returns as you chew up a lot of real estate to get a few more Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Claud: do you have a schedual for building lined up for the straight horns yet? They should be the icing in the cake for your rig. Please keep us posted I am sure that the build will be very interesting. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 PS. I think I will stick to Volvotretter's Sub. Which one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Claud: do you have a schedual for building lined up for the straight horns yet? They should be the icing in the cake for your rig. Please keep us posted I am sure that the build will be very interesting. Best regards Moray James. Right now bulding my new digs, so it will be next year for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Volvotreter's sub is fine. He also did a great job with is conical horn's back chamber, which is ideal for the EVM 15L, which has amazing detail and "speed" in my FH1/SP1 cabs.after EQ of course. Instead of his symmetrical square throat, I made mine rectangular, along with the mouth to match my K402's. Then went a full meter length from throat to mouth, while making the mouth larger and roughly 20x40" so it matches the k402's. It's flat to 80 Hz. and about 6 db down at 70, which is where I want to cross. Making the mouth bigger or the horn longer had diminishing returns as you chew up a lot of real estate to get a few more Hz. I will be using the same drivers for my Straight axis horn, so I will probably get a third one so I can still listen while I do R&D. EVM's are the bomb when you consider how inexpensive they are used/reconed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Like so many people here and on other boards, I'm trying my best to use all of the collective knowledge that is out there, but there is no substitute for being able to measure stuff, because it hadly ever works like the specs or other people's "free" opinions on these boards......oh, and nothing as easy to use as Hornresp.........thank you David McBean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2sick2pray Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 PS. I think I will stick to Volvotretter's Sub. Which one? I'm going with 2 Tangband 38Hz tapped horns as it will be both, easy and cheap, for R/L channels. They will get up to 100hz so that leaves me more options for bass bin choices as I'm going with the k401/k55m mids crossed between 400-500hz's for now. I'll find K402's one day and that will change my setup drastically. Quick note, my personal life has changed for the best as I'm now in the process of deciding on 2 lounge/bar venues to DJ for, and I'm looking for a shop, complete with modest living quarters, to take this whole DIYing to a whole new level.This is a dream coming true and all with the help of everyone here.Thank you all for the support. Regards 2S2P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2sick2pray Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 Claude: I promise to learn how to use the HR program. Your so right , until you can actually measure it, talk is talk and bull scat walks. I am still very interested in your straight axis design as I'm not so restricted by the footprint as I was before. I thank you in advance 2S2P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Claude: I promise to learn how to use the HR program. Your so right , until you can actually measure it, talk is talk and bull scat walks. I am still very interested in your straight axis design as I'm not so restricted by the footprint as I was before. I thank you in advance 2S2P If you only need to get to 100 Hz. then just build Volvotreter's conical bass horn for the EVM-15L (or B )woofer, which you can find on Craiglist all the time since musicians routinely fry them. You can get them reconed and they will be like new for about $100 each. Bruce Edgar, doing D.B. Keele math highly recommends these woofers as the best for bass horns above 60 Hz. because they will go up past 600 easily on the right bass horn design. All the R&D has been done already and the plans even have a 1:1 template and panel layout if you can get to a printer/plotter with large roll feed......try a blueprint shop. Plus it's all metric, which, I'm sure a fellow Canuck can easily understand. My version is just about 1/4 meter longer, with a rectangular throat of the same area and a rectangular, larger mouth, so it goes a little lower. But his has the perfect back air chamber for that woofer (important). Don't substitute woofers either. don't screw around with other woofers, you will be dissapointed. You can cross Erik's version at about 80 Hz...........I was going for 60 on mine because of the TH design I have. You gotta match it up to your Tapped Horn Sub. Conical_77Hz_Midbass_1.0.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2sick2pray Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 Claude: I promise to learn how to use the HR program. Your so right , until you can actually measure it, talk is talk and bull scat walks. I am still very interested in your straight axis design as I'm not so restricted by the footprint as I was before. I thank you in advance 2S2P If you only need to get to 100 Hz. then just build Volvotreter's conical bass horn for the EVM-15L (or B )woofer, which you can find on Craiglist all the time since musicians routinely fry them. You can get them reconed and they will be like new for about $100 each. Bruce Edgar, doing D.B. Keele math highly recommends these woofers as the best for bass horns above 60 Hz. because they will go up past 600 easily on the right bass horn design. All the R&D has been done already and the plans even have a 1:1 template and panel layout if you can get to a printer/plotter with large roll feed......try a blueprint shop. Plus it's all metric, which, I'm sure a fellow Canuck can easily understand. My version is just about 1/4 meter longer, with a rectangular throat of the same area and a rectangular, larger mouth, so it goes a little lower. But his has the perfect back air chamber for that woofer (important). Don't substitute woofers either. don't screw around with other woofers, you will be dissapointed. You can cross Erik's version at about 80 Hz...........I was going for 60 on mine because of the TH design I have. You gotta match it up to your Tapped Horn Sub. As a final note to this thread for me, I like to send out a heartfelt thank you to all memberof this forum for their contributions. I'll be moving on to the PA segment for the time being as I've landed an incredible oppurtunity to setup a 3000 sq.ft bar/lounge with both a passive and an active(mine) setup, and the icing on the cake, will be the 300 seat theater, complete with a 5' high, 80' long stage and the ceiling height, as far as my eye can see:) Floor noise in there reminds me of a morgue, you can hear the slightest sound from long distance in there. We will need to build all types of gear as the owner has just taking possesion of the complex, and I'll have my hands full just with the learning curve. I'll be all ears and open to all ideas to make this dream a realty. Thank you all once again and hope to hear from you in the future.2Sick 2Pray. PS: Claude I will PM you with regards to mods on the FH-1 as I just bought Morays SP-1's, and when I can afford it, I'll give your straight axis bin a go with delight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 PS: Claude I will PM you with regards to mods on the FH-1 as I just bought Morays SP-1's, and when I can afford it, I'll give your straight axis bin a go with delight. Sounds like a great opportunity. I highly recommend the Behringer DCX 2496 as an affordable EQ for the SP-1. You can bypass the passive network and got to higher slopes and 4th order Linkwitz-Riley over 3 channels with it. since you will have the Peavey 1504 woofer in it, your setting my a little different, but there is the 140 hz. peak to pull down, even it that is all you do for the bass section, it will greatly improve the perfomance. You can then cross the treble horn at 500 instead of 600, because of the steeper slopes, and PEQ up a bit at 15 Khz.. The result of just this will amaze you. All you will then need is your 2 octave bass extension from the subs and you are all set until you build more stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2sick2pray Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 Claude: I got my Behr 2496 a few weeks ago and I'm just learning to have a blast with it. I'm crossing at 4th order at 499hz for the CP-1, and at 80hz 4th order to the sub. any recommends there, as I'm strugglling with both time and the renovations going on there. Limited time to play right now and I need to hammer down the sound soon, plus grab a Jan Didden master volume control for the output gains.Thanks 2S2P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Claude: I got my Behr 2496 a few weeks ago and I'm just learning to have a blast with it. I'm crossing at 4th order at 499hz for the CP-1, and at 80hz 4th order to the sub. any recommends there, as I'm strugglling with both time and the renovations going on there. Limited time to play right now and I need to hammer down the sound soon, plus grab a Jan Didden master volume control for the output gains.Thanks 2S2P If you use a Behringer 8000 microphone (or the quiv. from Parts Express) input "C" you can time align the two automatically. Sounds to me like you picked some good Xover points. I like 80 Hz.. because it's in tune with THX standards. I checked out Jan Didden. Thanks for the tip. I'm only using the DCX for the woofer section, so I don't need all those mods, since it's the least critical band in terms of "sound quality"............"the midrange is where we live"--PWK, so I keep that one passive with the super fast and quiet outputs of my receiver amplifiers. Believe it or not, I'm driving the FH-1 bins with a Radio Shack 3A 13.8 volt (car battery voltage) power supply hooked up to a $25 Lepai amp. with the Tripath 2020 Chip. It's quiet and sounds very good to my ears. Since the cutoff of the 402 is 300 Hz. acoustically with a 3rd order rolloff, I use an electrical 1st order (single capacitor value) on the Klipsch 1133 driver, which rolls even below 300 hz. So I'm doint a 4th order L-R on the DCX at 320 Hz. This would NOT work for you in a huge venue, whereas in my 80-85 db home listening in the sweet spot, those woofers only see about 25 MILLIWATTS. Adding a 20 db peak on recorded music (classical being the most dynamic), it's .025 x 100= 2.5 watt PEAKS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Audyssey on my HT receiver (central to my 7.1 and 2.1 sound) picked 70 Hz. into my sub, because there is the least cancellation there. Plus I have some pretty hefty EQ at the low end cutoff of my SP-1/FH-1 bottoms since I'm using an EVM 15 L, which doesn't naturally go quite as low as the Peavey 1504 woofer in those short horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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