Deang Posted June 16, 2002 Share Posted June 16, 2002 After spending the last month agonizing over the future of my upgrade path -- I've come to some conclusions. My financial situation is such that whatever I decide to do -- I have to do it by the end of June, and that will be it for a very long time. I took a hard look at each part of my system for the purpose of determining which piece was the 'weakest' link. My thinking was such that if I spent my last $1000 -- where would it best be served. My preamp? I really like the SF Line 1. It is an outstanding sounding unit. I thought maybe I could sell it and then buy the AE-3 DJH Signature. I may still do this. I would probably break about even on this exchange. However, my ears are really dialed in to the sound of the 6922. I don't know what it is -- but I love the sound of this tube. It would be difficult to part with it. I worry a lot about trading one sonic characteristic for another. I worry about losing something in the sound I love, and gaining something else in the sound I might not care about. My amp? The only thing I would even consider doing is an upgrade to the DJH version. The Super Amp is a marvelous piece of equipment. The main reason for doing this upgrade would be for the extra 3db of headroom I would gain. I typically listen to levels around 98db to 100db at my chair. My music is intense -- and I like listening to it at an intense level. However, I worry about diminishing returns. Since I don't listen to recordings employing acoustic or wind instrumentation -- whatever sonic gains are made by this upgrade may simply get buried and lost within the layers of distortion emanating from the sound of stacked Marshall amps. Going from SS to tubes was quite a leap -- but I feel very strongly that going to something else in the tube arena is more of small hop than a big leap. Again, diminishing returns. My speakers? Hmmm. Those RF7's. Am I ready for some LaScalas or K-horns? Cornwalls? I am not like most of you who have been listening to full range horn speakers most of your life. My background is very different. I mean, I still find the sound of a Magnepan very appealing. I can walk into showroom playing music through Magnepans -- and immediately feel at home. There is a richness and texture to the music that many other speakers just can't reproduce in this way. I remember when I first brought the RB5's home. I still had my Maggies, and spent considerable time going back and forth with music and movies. I felt the RB5 retained much of the richness and texture of the sound, while at the same time belting out the sound with a sense of realism that was for the most part absent from the Magnepans. I thought the diffuseness of the sound field produced by the Magnepan was very appealing -- but it couldn't do it at high SPL's without pinching up and sounding congested. The RB5 otoh, always sounded wide open and non-congested no matter what punishment I inflicted upon it. The little RB5 won me over -- and I sold those Magnepans. What really won me over about the RB5 was that it gave me something from every speaker I ever liked, along with its ability to hold it all together without pinching. I consider it to be THE BEST value in audio. Nothing touches it for the money. Actually, to my ears -- I can't think of anything off hand in a box that size that competes with it. Nothing. I also still remember the sound of the Heresy's and K-horns I listened to in the 70's, and most recently, the KLF30's. Yea, yea I know -- I never heard them with 'the right stuff'. However, I never heard ANYTHING I ever bought with 'the right stuff'. I listened to the RB5's on a Yamaha receiver, and RF7's on Integra. We usually listen to speakers in less than ideal settings, and rarely with the front end equipment conducive to bringing out the best in the speaker. However, we listen, and we do get a very good idea of the sonic character. I hear Reference and I hear Heritage -- and I like Reference. What do I do? I didn't like three-way horns then, and so what is it that makes me think I will like them now? It is simply all you wonderful people who own and enjoy them so much, and who present so many convincing arguments in favor of them. It is in fact simple peer pressure that makes me want to throw caution to the wind and jump straight into 'The Forbidden Zone'. When I listen to what my ears are telling me to do -- they are telling me to STOP! What is it about an RF7, Dalhquist, Magnepan, or Vandersteen that I like? I think it would have to be the smoothness in response, and a certain degree of warmth and refinement in the sound at all power levels -- at least, with the kind of music I like to listen to. Can anyone here honestly say that 'warmth' is a word they would use to describe Heritage? Something we never talk much about here is the relationship between the design of the speaker and the music we like to listen to. We like to believe a speaker should just be an 'accurate' reproducer. We don't want to say that one type of reproducer is better for one type of music over another. We want to say that if it is 'accurate' -- then these distinctions should not be made. What is really wrong with drawing these distinctions? We speak of the effects of room acoustics and the differences in recorded material -- and easily accept that not all things work in all situations. Speaking of recorded material -- what of the differences in the actual frequency specific information found from comparing a blues or jazz recording to a Heavy metal or rock/pop recording? Should we not expect to believe it might be possible for one type of music to shine on a certain speaker, and yet have another type of music completely suck -- on the same speaker? I'm throwing this out there as another possibility (along with all the others) as to why one might prefer one speaker over another. I just can't help but wonder if Metallica on a set of Scalas might just be too much of a good thing. Thoughts? ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * RF-7 Klipschcones® f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 06-16-2002 at 07:47 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowooo Posted June 16, 2002 Share Posted June 16, 2002 Just the thought of Metallica on LaScalas gives me a headache... ------------------ 2 Channel System: Klipsch Epic CF-2s McIntosh C-15 Preamplifier Adcom GFA 5500 Amplifier Music Hall MMF-5 Table Adcom GCD 700 CD Adcom ACE-515 AC Enhancer Transparent Audio Cabless> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted June 16, 2002 Share Posted June 16, 2002 Deang I am a Khorn owner and my musical preference is very broad. I have been a Heritage owner for 20 years and I will admit that nothing else will satisty me musically. I listen to everything from Bach and Vivaldi to METALLICA and Kid Rock and everything in between except Country and Gangsta RAP. My room is designed for khorns, very large and very flat. My preamp is set flat, no EQ. In an earlier thread there was a lot of debate over Loundness contouring. I have a Mac MC-36 preamp with a variable loudness dial. It is the only setting I change when switching music styles. Most rock was not designed to be played on Khorns and I put it very flat to lower the overcompensated boom in newer recordings. Clisical music is very "variable" on recording technique. I love listing to ANY music on my Khorns. I would bet money that you would love them. Good luck in your quest for perfection. JM This message has been edited by j-malotky on 06-16-2002 at 08:26 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted June 16, 2002 Share Posted June 16, 2002 deang, Between RF-7s and Forte-IIs: The Fortes are a bit more dynamic and lively. One is always sitting in or near the front row. I think there is some coloration. They're not exactly "bright" but certainly have strong midrange. I find the RF-7s to be a little cleaner, smoother, more neutral, and one is always a few rows back. I like rock on the Fortes and chamber music on the RF-7s. Orchestral music is split. I'm sure glad I have both. good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 My problem was that I had NOT been listening to full ranger horns all my life...just wanting to. I've had all kinds of speakers since the 60's, and some did one thing better than another, some were just sort of OK on most anything, etc. Klipschorns are mercilessly accurate. They are the one thing I can eliminate in my repro chain as the source of a problem. Last night a put on a Hendrix album and my wife literally FLED the room. The reason was the distortion, perfectly reproduced, of Hendrix original system and recording. She'd have flew the room if she'd been at the original session (well, I'm sure most present that day were sedated). What I've found is that recordings simply sound like whatever they are. That is what I want, and that is what I have. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Mallett: The reason was the distortion, perfectly reproduced, of Hendrix original system and recording. I found a lot of this in Neil Young's new album "Are You Passionate?". For a second I thought I was in the era of 'vinyl-land' again. ------------------ Tom's Money Pit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 Dave, Well said. If a person doesn't want the kind of sonic reproduction accuracy that shows up EVERYTHING, then the fully horn-loading isn't gonna be for him/her...but that is the price one must pay in listening to some recordings where distoration and coloration were originally put down on the tracks... Consider this: On vinyl, the bass on ZZ Top's "Tres Hombres" album was overpowering and not clearly defined and muffled the lead guitar forcing it "decibel-wise" into the background) on some of the tracks...but when it was remastered to CD, they eliminated some of that tendencey for it to be muffled and overpowering, and the lead riffs come out clearer...this is just one example of how fully horn-loading will show things up!! As to Hendrix...distortion was one of his hallmarks in his latter period...he purposely made distortion a PART of his recordings...but on k-horns, it can get pretty annoying at times...due to their sonic accuracy (But "All Along the Watchtower" SHINES on k-horns...one of the best things ever done by him!! A very clear recording and you can SEE his fingers picking out the lead on it!!) I guess, to me at least, it isn't whether a speaker is better than another for a particular TYPE OF MUSIC...but whether the particular track one is listening to from ANY TYPE OF MUSIC was originally laid down clearly or not! I sincerely believe that if sound recording engineers had sonically accurate fully-horn-loaded monitors in their studios to listen to when mixing down from the masters, there would be alot better quality in the final product of their efforts!! And that quality would definitely show up on k-horns in people's homes, too!! Fact is, if those engineers can't hear it from their studio monitors, they can't fix it when mixing down to the final product...too bad, but that is the way things are, I guess!! Deang, Have you considered this for your final 1,000 bucks prior to the lean times coming? Instead of sinking it into equipment you may not be happy with or really have that much of a need for at this time...Why not use at least a part of it to do something special with the "significant other", since it may ALSO be awhile before you can do THAT again during the upcoming lean times? Just a thought! A little foresight at this time may well-be-repaid at a later date. ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 06-17-2002 at 12:51 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 17, 2002 Author Share Posted June 17, 2002 More wisdom from The Builder. Really...I'm done for now. I'm happy with how it all sounds, so what is the point in jerking things around? You are right...time for Debbie to have some fun too!! Thanks for the reality check. ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * RF-7 Klipschcones® f>s> Exigency is the matriarch of ingenious contrivancef>c>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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