The art of flight

[derrickdj1]

the THX setup seems to have a very large sound like the actual theater which I assume is what they were built for.

Michael I think you hit the nail on the head. For HT, the satellite THX system is excellent. For music a good case can be made for floor standing speakers, not that the THX system can't sound great with music also. Floor standing speakers give a different dimension than satellite systems to the soundstage for music. Also driving the bass from subs and not 5-7 full range speakers makes scents considering standing wave and room modes. To many speakers producing the low bass may muddy the dialogue for movies.

Scrappydue, the shootout for subs on the AVS gave the JTR Caps a nice review. JTR makes some nice speakers and subs.

[MichaelandKlipsch]

Derrick do they consider the THX KL-650s Satellite speakers? I know the KS-525s are basically very similar to the RS-62+RS-52s but I would have considered the KL-650s L,C,Rs to be more of Klipschs Top of the Line Book Shelf Speaks under their palladium line. Interesting though if they are considered satellite speakers. I would like to demo or listen to some JTR speakers but Im afraid if I did if that would push me to sell mine and switch brands. Been a long time Klipsch fan would hate to feel put down by JTR lol. I would definitely give Klipsch the upper hand in the cosmetic dept. (aside from the big black not so attractive THX line they do sound incredible though lol) over the JTRs but I will say those JTR speakers look unbelievably powerful. I bet they sound phenomenal.

[MichaelandKlipsch]

Scrappy I'm pretty confident those amazing ultras will be up for the task in a large room []

[derrickdj1]

Michael a satellite speaker handels the midbass and midrange, even thought most of us think of smaller speakers as satellites. For me, a full range speaker goes from 20 Hz to 20,00 kHz undistorted. I have floor standing speakers but the system function as a satellite system with everything xo at 100 Hz. I think of satellite systems using bass management and none of the speakers full range. When a speaker is task with producing to much of the frequency range they can become muddy or loose some of the SQ. This is why 3 way and up speakers were desinged. I have no problem running all speakers as small and the big RF 7, RC 64 and other speakers function as a satellite system.

A well design satellite system can offer superior performance compared to a tower system. The desingner know that a subwoofer/s will be used and can concentrate on the bass driver in the satellite to produce good midbass and midrange SQ. This can result in lower distortion. Klipsch THX Ultra is not like the little Sony system I had years ago with only one small driver in the tiny cube speaker and xo at 150-200. In a lot of HT systems, the center speaker function as a midrange speaker. At high volume, the bass driver needs more power to keep up with the tweeter and can cause the sound to be harsh/bright due to the mismatch power requirements. the tweeter may be 3-5 db louder than the woofer.

I like my tower speakers and use DDPLIIZ for a lot of music because IMO the midbass and midrange is better for some music using the smaller 6 1/2 drivers from the RC 64 and RS 35 over the RF 7's. Satellites speaker are easier to place also for optimal SQ. The Klipsch THX system is a Flagship system!

I have listed the advantages of a satellite system. The advantage of tower speakers, they play louder and deeper than a satellite or bookshelf speaker. This advantage can be lessen or made equal by the use of a good sub/s and setup. Towers also have a look that can work well in many rooms.

[MichaelandKlipsch]

Thats an awesome amount of information. I also have all mine XO at 80z though just because they are optimized at 80hz vie recommended for the THX speakers. I used to keep my 83 towers set at 80hz and my RC 64 set to 100hz. But didnt realize that is what defined what a satellite system. Always set my speaks to small though because I know what you mean by the mid-bass being handled by small 5-6-8 drivers. I assume thats what I got great music from the 83s from was the mid bass via the 3 8 drivers on my old 83s. I noticed musically they were much nicer but I have better mids now with the THX KL-650s. more pounced. But the mid-bass for music in the tower speakers was definitely more refined and smooth. Thats why Im thinking of grabbing another pair of tower speakers for downstairs for pure music. I dont listen to music upstairs in the theater usually so Im looking at a Pair of RF-7iis or older set of Khorns or Lascalas. Not in the market yet though still recovering from everything I just bought. Just picked up a last set of KS-525 surround backs that should be here next week and an Anthem A2. So Im done spending for a while. If you were to upgrade or switch what route would you go derrick? What in general is the next area of upgrading you for see?

[Vital]

I have floor standing speakers but the system function as a satellite system with everything xo at 100 Hz. I think of satellite systems using bass management and none of the speakers full range. When a speaker is task with producing to much of the frequency range they can become muddy or loose some of the SQ.

You cross your RF-7s over at 100?

[MichaelandKlipsch]

I also agree with your statement in the cosmetic dept. some towers are just absolutely BEAutiful. I miss the way my 83s looked but I dont mind the THX system. For a room that is purely a home theater it kinda gets the theater look being large block shaped speakers with plain grills and a Klipsch THX logo. They look very movie theater like which I actually like for my theater room but of course for a system that would perhaps be placed in living room or another part of the house the Towers say RF-7s would look really nice in cherry downstairs. Dont think the Wifey would like the look of THX KL-650s in the living room. Haha. Thankfully as you stated the THX subs are definitely some of the finest subs I have owned and they keep the power of the system def. up to date. I noticed some differences in distortion etc when I switched from the RF83 system to the THX speaks. They dont sound harsh or bright at high volumes during movie playback. I have had it up at reference volumes a few times maybe the difference in Drivers and tatrix horns plus the horn opening is much larger than my towers were. Def. they can keep up and are played nicely with the anthem powering them. I wish I could have kept the 83 towers for the music listening downstairs but the wife said if I had speakers on the wood floor she doesnt bwant them to be black. I had the 83s in black veneer so thats what has the brain considering rf-7ii in cherry. Id rather have Khorns but they are really big and I dont know if she is going to budge on that. she was nice enough to let me build the THX setup dont want to sleep on the couch for some Khorns. Hmmm wait a tic. The couch would be next to the horns

[derrickdj1]

You cross your RF-7s over at 100

Yes, it also has something to do with the standing waves in the room. I have tried 50 Hz. to 200 Hz and 100 Hz for me is the best match. Some people would say xo the RF 7 at 100 Hz, why not save some money and get a smaller tower. I like the RF 7's, lol[]. And by no means, is their sound small using that xo. My subs produce better bass than the RF 7's. Michael, I don't plan on any upgrades for a while since this system is less than a year old for me: a lot of big expenses recently. We all are very fortunate to have good systems that we enjoy!

[MichaelandKlipsch]

Agreed Derrick. You have a killer set-up. Also most everyone I speak with visa their sigs is fortunate on here. All happy klipsch owners.

[Vital]

Yes, it also has something to do with the standing waves in the room. I have tried 50 Hz. to 200 Hz and 100 Hz for me is the best match.

I think this might be the first time I have ever heard or read about anyone crossing over RF-7s so high. I am not trying to doubt your findings btw, it just goes to show you how different peoples room can be I guess. I find I like my RF-7s crossed over at 50 the best in my room.

[derrickdj1]

I suspect there is something with the standing waves and the Pioneer avr picked this number from the autocalibration. There have been studies of stereo floor speakers in room respone and it is far from flat:

[derrickdj1]

The modal respone of floor speakers below below 100 Hz is dominated by the room. This can be tamed with EQ and room TX's to some extent. In the graph by Dr. Fred Kaplan, note the frequency response of the stereo speakers above and below 100 Hz. My Epik Legend and PA 150 perform very well up to around 150 Hz. A lot of subs with more output in the lower region, do not perform well over 80-100 Hz. Even though a xo of 100 seems counter-intuitive, there is hard data to support it. The SC 35 sets the xo to 100 Hz after autocalibration inspite of my previous experimentation with different xo's.

http://seriousaudioblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/two-great-articles-on-multiple.html

In fairness to the OP, back to The Art of Flight[]

[CECAA850]

If it were a room issue, you should have a peak at that frequency regardless of whether or not said frequency was reproduced by the mains or the sub I would think.

The peak looks to be more around 70Hz in the 1'st graph, 60 in the second. Bass traps should help.

[derrickdj1]

The graph if not mines. It is take from a paper by E. Geddes. The paper had several graph of floor standing and bookshelf speakers showing how the modal problem of main speakers without a sub/s. This support his theory on using multiple sub since that can be moved around to get a better overall bass response.

[Scrappydue]

This thread is going way off topic. Amazing how easy that happens lol

[Youthman]

While you guys went all nerdy on us, I thought I would get this train back on track. It's going to be a good weekend! Arrived in my mailbox today.

[Scrappydue]

Yes! I been waiting on you youth! You better find some time to or row for some reference levels listening. Don't forget chapter 2 LOUD! Your son and you are gonna love it! I did a demo a couple days ago at night and never noticed before that my subs dim all the lights in my house when they are up loud lol. Can't wait for a home theater with dedicated 20A plugs all over

[Youthman]

First of all, my thoughts might be a little biased since I enjoy snowboarding but I just spent maybe 10 minutes watching a few scenes from the Art of Flight. HOLY COW! First off, the cinemetography is second to none. Absolutely breathtaking. The editing is superb and combined with the soundtrack, I can truly say that from the little sample I received, I would highly recommend this video.

Funny thing is I watched the disk with my newly aquired B&W DM604 S3. They sounded good but they are not near the speaker of the RF-83's so I know that I'm in store for an even greater experience when I put the 83's into the mix. I've had the DM604 S2's several months ago and did some A/B comparison between the RF-83's and the DM 604's and it wasn't really a fair fight.

[Coleman]

My copy of Art of Flight came yesterday. Crystal clear filming and great sound! All around a very good purchase! Thanks Scrappy for sharing this with us. I would've never known.

[Scrappydue]

No problem brother that's what we are all here for. And youth you gotta run it with the 83's man!!