What amp for Cornwall 3?

[Boomzilla]

OK - My thread about amplification in general didn't quite answer my specific question, so I'm starting this thread.

My Cornwall 3s (henceforth "Cs") were initially unlistenable in my room. As it turned out, the room was mostly at fault. Being very "live" with excessive slap echo, the Cs sounded boomy, bright, and just plain ugly. Once I realized that the room was at fault, I installed some ATS panels that seem to have brought very good results.

In the treated room, the Cs sound much better, but the bass is still an issue. Since other speakers in the same positions have NOT caused bass problems, I know that room geometry is not the problem. The Cs have poor pitch definition in the lower frequencies. They also are not as tight and tactile as I'd like. Some of this may be solved with amplification but some may depend on the Cs' cabinets. I'd like, in this thread to studiously IGNORE potential cabinet issues and focus on amplification matching for better bass.

In theory, having a solid-state amplifier with very low output impedance and high damping factor should produce better woofer control. To that end, I've tried an Emotiva XPA-2 (300 wpc, solid-state). This amplifier has successfully controlled Theil 1.6 and 3.6 speakers whose bass is notoriously difficult because of both low impedance and complicated crossover phase angles. The same amplifier, however, doesn't seem to do much for the Cs.

Going to the other end of the amplification scale, I've also tried two different vacuum tube power amplifiers. A pair of Vacuum Tube Logic "Compact 100" monoblocks was tried first. These amplifiers had previously been used with La Scalas and sounded ravishing. Unfortunately, they did nothing special for the Cs' bass. Also, a Rogue Audio Tempest Magnum tube integrated was tried (in both ultralinear mode - 60 wpc - and in triode mode - 30 wpc) without any significant improvement.

So to get to the point of the thread - What amplifier(s) do YOU use with your Cornwall 3s, and how well do the amps control the bass? Focus answers, please, on what specific amplifiers or integrated amps worked well (or not) with your Cornwall 3 speakers.

Thanks - Boomzilla

[willland]

Boomzilla,

Throw a price range out there so we can better serve you. I have a couple of integrateds and amplifiers in mind but rather know first if they are in your budget.

Where are you located?

Bill

[Boomzilla]

Hi Bill

I'm in Baton Rouge.

Price range is anything under about $3K. I'd certainly prefer to buy used.

Thanks - Boomzilla

[stormin]

I have used a Crown K2 with an earlier version Cornwall with no success.

The K2 is 500wpc and has a damping factor: 10hz to 400hz >3000.

The woofers would almost flutter at volume.

"One of the reasons" I call the Cornwall a great jazz speaker and the KLF 30 and Chorus II's great rock and roll speakers.

Some folks like big warm woolly bass and others like tight chest crunching bass. I prefer the later.

I also prefer the same with subwoofers in 2 channel. When I am jamming I am not interested in a "home theater like" foot massage I want a chest massage.

As always just my 2 cents.

[Boomzilla]

...Some folks like big warm woolly bass and others like tight chest crunching bass...

As always just my 2 cents.

Thanks stromin

I prefer accurate bass without overhang, with perfect pitch definition, and with such realistic sound that when a thunderclap hits during a movie, you look out the window to see if it's raining. I've had the privilege of having not one but two world-class subwoofers in my room: A M&K MX-350 THX and a Definitive Technology Trinity Reference Supercube. Although they gave me the bass I wanted, they also were intrusive in a living space and produced true subsonics (which my better half does NOT like).

I settled on the Cornwall 3 speakers because I estimated that they would satisfy without needing a subwoofer. In terms of extension, I'm right. In terms of quality...

Cordially - Boomzilla

[willland]

I was thinking maybe an NAD C375BEE or an NAD M3. Both have excellent bass drive and control and very detailed. For an amp I am going to suggest an Acurus A200 used or a new Acurus A2002. My buddy had an A200 driving a pair Cornwall 2's and the control and detail was amazing.

Bill

[Boomzilla]

That's exactly the type of info I was looking for, Bill. Thank you kindly - I'll look about for Acurus products and see about their availability.

[stormin]

I prefer accurate bass without overhang, with perfect pitch definition, and with such realistic sound that when a thunderclap hits during a movie, you look out the window to see if it's raining.

Exactly. I think it should be everyones goal.

I should state I do not watch movies through my 2 channel system. I am listening for the attack and feel of the snare and kick drums.

[Ski Bum]

ATI AT602 or AT1202 for bigger rooms. Rock solid US made muscle amps, great specs, dead quiet, gain controls, clip indicators. If there is bass in the recording, they'll feed it into whatever load with grace. I got mine from classic audio parts, sold as b-stock, but with the full 7 year warranty. Can't find a blemish on it.

If your CWIII's are singing along, some dowels and gorilla glue inside the cabs will shut them up and take up minimal space in the cabs. And Chris was right about the corner thing but it sounds like that is simply not an option.

[Boomzilla]

...If your CWIII's are singing along, some dowels and gorilla glue inside the cabs will shut them up and take up minimal space in the cabs...

Thank you, Ski Bum - An option I hadn't considered. I can see how some side-to-side dowels could be easily fitted, but how does one do front-to back ones?

[willland]

SORRY, DOUBLE POST.[:$]

I added links.

I was thinking maybe an NAD C375BEE or an NAD M3. Both have excellent bass drive and control and very detailed.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-nad-c-375bee-c375bee-integrated-amplifier-with-manufacturer-s-warranty-free-shipping-2013-04-19-integrateds-01060

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-nad-master-series-m3-m3e-integrated-amplifier-with-warranty-and-free-shipping-2013-04-24-integrateds-01060

For an amp I am going to suggest an Acurus A200 used or a new Acurus A2002 mfr'd by Indy Audio Labs. My buddy had an A200 driving a pair Cornwall 2's and the control, punch, and detail was amazing.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-acurus-modial-a200-amplifier-200w-rms-into-8-ohms-x2-2013-04-28-amplifiers-55408-minneapolis-mn

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/multi-ch-acurus-a2002-thx-ultra-2-high-end-200w-x-2-channel-amplifier-authorized-dealer-new-in-box-2013-04-27-amplifiers-46815

Bill

[dtel]

Hi Bill

I'm in Baton Rouge.

No #%^*, I didn't realize that !

We use an old HK 930, not really critical listening considering there in a bedroom [:$], they were in the living room for a long time so we did get a good listen. The only other amp we tried was a Yamaha AVR, and it really sucked.

[cnguyen]

I have pretty good luck with kimber silver streak interconnects,mcintosh preamp and amp, Kimber 8TC as speaker cables. I found that my cw II love mcintosh solid state and silver interconnects. I get very tight bass with them and the mid range details are outstanding. The issue of loose bass you have might be tied to electronics, interconnects and speaker cables. Iwouldspend more on int and speaker cables you will definitely get the tight bass back.

[CECAA850]

ATI AT602 or AT1202 for bigger rooms. Rock solid US made muscle amps, great specs, dead quiet, gain controls, clip indicators. If there is bass in the recording, they'll feed it into whatever load with grace. I got mine from classic audio parts, sold as b-stock, but with the full 7 year warranty. Can't find a blemish on it.

If your CWIII's are singing along, some dowels and gorilla glue inside the cabs will shut them up and take up minimal space in the cabs. And Chris was right about the corner thing but it sounds like that is simply not an option.

ATI, the best, least known amp company out there. Made in the good old USA and solid as a rock as stated above. They build amps that are rebadged by several companies. I recently found a 1502, MINT for $300.00. They have some absolute beasts in their line up. Sweet sounding and very accurate.

[CECAA850]

ATI AT602 or AT1202 for bigger rooms. Rock solid US made muscle amps, great specs, dead quiet, gain controls, clip indicators. If there is bass in the recording, they'll feed it into whatever load with grace. I got mine from classic audio parts, sold as b-stock, but with the full 7 year warranty. Can't find a blemish on it.

If your CWIII's are singing along, some dowels and gorilla glue inside the cabs will shut them up and take up minimal space in the cabs. And Chris was right about the corner thing but it sounds like that is simply not an option.

Double post.