CANT Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Last fall I bought a bunch of equipment from a guy that worked for a local Dickinson theater before it closed. Included in this lot were several Crown amplifiers and 4 Klipsch THSR-2's in various states of neglect. I was able to salvage 2 of the 4 cabinets, repainted them and started looking into what it would take to convert them into Heresy's. I picked up a pair of K76's and a couple of stock HII crossovers to get started but had planned from the beginning to build my own networks. At this point I have tried out a few different configurations using stuff I had lying around but haven't been totally happy with any of the results... Lately I've been looking into the HIII crossover but haven't really been able to find the information I need. I did find one gentleman who was/is willing to help me but he is currently incapacitated and it could be a while so I thought I would see if anybody on here could help me out as well. I am mostly interested in the tweeter and mid-range circuits but will take just about any info you can provide. GSYBE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Sounds like a fun project. It would be helpful if you can give us a current inventory of what you have (listing the model number on the drivers and crossover etc). Also, what is the goal (Home theater, 2 ch music etc). Good Luck, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I'm not familiar with the model, is the cabinet the same size as a Heresy, and if it is -- isn't the cabinet ported? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Dean: You are testing my memory on this one. IIRC they were a theater/commercial model that was two-way and in a ported cabinet. I wonder how they sound as is. If it is for home theater, it might be okay as originally configured Converting them to a conventional Heresy may be more involved than the OP realizes. Such is life ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Right, much simpler to learn what components were originally used and do a rebuild as opposed to the alternative which involves a lot of headaches and disappointments. You cannot use a crossover designed for one loudspeaker in something else. The Heresy III is a current production loudspeaker. Klipsch does not release schematics for those, though I do seem to remember someone around here reverse engineering the thing. Still, of no use to you unless you use the same size box with the same components. If the cabinet is the same size as a Heresy, you could properly plug the port and buy what you need from Bob Crites. I would use the crossover designed by John Albright. If you ever get to that point, I'll post the schematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I'm using the Google Chrome browser, which I like quite a bit. The down side is that it does not retain my formatting -- it's as bad as my iPhone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANT Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 The THSR-2 was a Heresy II used for theater surround. It used an HII box, K53K mid, K22K woofer and a piece of 1/8 plywood glued and stapled over the tweeter cutout. My boxes have the circular input cups but had the actual crossovers mounted to boards, others could be different. I know there is a post on here somewhere that discusses the original crossovers if you are curious but I dismantled them quite a while ago. As for building a new crossover I have both T2A and T7A autoformers, inductors ranging from .16 to 4mH and enough random caps to make what ever test value I could need. Once I have found the setup I am looking for I will buy the correct values in something of appropriate quality. As a side note, I have tested out the Eminence Delta-12lfa woofer and have a pair of, what should be, K28's on their way so the K22's are not definitely going back in... and I also have a pair of Crites Ti diaphragms sitting around that will make their way into this project later on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANT Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 Right, much simpler to learn what components were originally used and do a rebuild as opposed to the alternative which involves a lot of headaches and disappointments. You cannot use a crossover designed for one loudspeaker in something else. The Heresy III is a current production loudspeaker. Klipsch does not release schematics for those, though I do seem to remember someone around here reverse engineering the thing. Still, of no use to you unless you use the same size box with the same components. If the cabinet is the same size as a Heresy, you could properly plug the port and buy what you need from Bob Crites. I would use the crossover designed by John Albright. If you ever get to that point, I'll post the schematic. This would be exactly what I am looking for... and I am not saying I would definitely use all or any of the design, I am just very curious to see it. What is the Albright design? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANT Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 For now, in lieu of HIII info, can any one tell me if there is any real benefit to lowering the tweeter/midrange crossover point from 6K on an HII? Most the of information on the 4.5K mod I can find is in reference to older heritage models using K77/K55's but they obviously use different network arrangements than newer models. There is a 4500 mod for one of the ALK networks that seems more universal but I'm just not sure it is necessary? Thank you for your time, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANT Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 Well, still no H3 but I was able to secure a rough copy of a CW3 schematic which probably isn't all that different given the components used in both... Id still like to see an H3 as well but the CW3 diagram at least gave me an idea of where they took the 3 series. Im kind of surprised I havent been able to acquire an H3? Its been out for quite a while now, youd think someone would have metered it by now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I think the ALK Cornscala-wall crossover would work nicely in this speaker. It has mid and tweeter attenauation so is easily tunable. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANT Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 I do have schematics of a few ALK designs but if I remember correctly I do not have that one... I REALLY want to get these put back together but have had zero to play with them lately At this point all I know is that I am leaning toward a 2nd order on the woofer and mid with a non K type 3rd on the tweeter and that I prefer the T7A to the T2A on the mid. I am also in the process of deciding between a -2db fixed pad on the tweeter or using the leftover T2A's for a -3db? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANT Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 Well, I finally have a pair of working pair of Heresy... After wasting more money on woofers and crossover components than I would care to admit... I've always had a hard time take someone else's word. Have to test/try everything for myself. I can't say I am all that good at reporting on my process either, unfortunately. The end results: K-76-Ti (via Crites) K-53-K K-28-E Clarity Cap SA 2.2uf Jantzen 15awg Air 0.15mH Mundorf Mcap 3.9uf + Dayton DFFC 0.1uf Dayton Vintage 30uf + Mundorf Mcap 6.8uf + Dayton DFFC 0.2uf Erse 14awg Air 0.2mH T2A (tap 2, -9db) + Mundorf MOX 10ohm Resistor Jantzen 15awg P-core 1.3mH These components make up an ALK jr network. I have also thrown a removable Mills 1ohm resistor between the input and the roughly 37uf capacitor that leads to the tweeter and mid. I prefer it others may not. A few things I will note: Of all the woofers I tried to the K-22-K seemed the worst. The ones I have came out the THSR-2's I started with. From a production standpoint, I don't see any reason for these K-22-K's to be any different than those found in a regular Heresy but the measurements I took do not match what I can find online (like an Le of 2.3mH @ 1Khz). Also the K-28-E was very similar to the Delta 12LFA but I think the larger magnet on the Delta did more to raise the upper khz response than the lower hz response . After comparing the T2A and T7A I preferred the -10db but the -9db (T2A) sounded warmer. Thus the 1ohm resistor. I believe what I noticed was due to the slightly larger wire gauge of the T2A. I’ve heard very good things about the Crites/ALK autoformers and may buy a pair the next time I find myself with funds? Though I’m probably ok where I am at... The ALK Cornscala-wall and other ALK variations sounded more lively but less balanced or harder to balance. The woofer generally made a BIG difference on which network was preferred. I chose what worked for me. I really thought I would prefer a higher order setup like that found in the HIII and some ALK designs but ended up finding them slightly troublesome. I HATE the “constant K” filter that appears in most of the stock Heritage networks. (eg. 1.5uf - 0.15mH - 1.5uf) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 CANT, congrats on finishing your project. That's a ton of work you did. cool to end up with results that are pleasing to you. if you are available to post any pics, would love to see your crossovers and speaks Would you mind saying more about the 'constant K' filter? I"m not a tech type, but am curious about your take on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I have been reading about the constant K filter since I read this. It is a very interesting topic which deserves discussion. Like the tubes vs SS, the higher order networks or even active crossovers vs first order or constant K filer could prove to be a hot topic. In reading the author(s) of the wiki's on the subject, the constant K has no place in modern networks. I believe that is a matter of opinion. I don't feel strongly about either, but I would say on behalf of gradual slopes that it allows the drivers to breath a bit more allowing the voices of the drivers to fade into one another. If you have perfectly timbre matched drivers, perhaps steep slopes are better. By the way, CANT. Thanks for the information. You do some good work. We need to see some pictures! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 thanks for your take MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 curious to know why you would want to lower the crossover point between the mid driver and the tweeter? What purpose would this serve? Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANT Posted September 4, 2013 Author Share Posted September 4, 2013 It was just an option that existed prior to my project... and I wanted to explore as many options as I could? When I don't feel like death I will post some pics.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I understand wanting to explore options. I am curious what the purpose of lowering the crossover point would be? Seems I remember someone wanting to change drivers and the new driver could not go high enough. That would be enough for me not to be interested in that driver. Given the horns in use the crossoversmake good sense the K700 covers from avout 700 Hz to 6KHz which is all the way from most all the mid to totaly harmonic territory. Only thing one could wish for is a larger mid horn. Take care of yourself and get well. Best regards Moray James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANT Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 Thank you, I am quite tired of being miserable so hopefully I am about done with this sickness business. I originally read about the 4500 mod in relation to the Crites CT125 tweeter replacement. A few people had commented that the mod was an improvement so I wanted to look into it further. I ended up not seeing the need to bother with it though. Speaking of tweeters... I ended up getting a really good deal on a pair of K792's, so when I test them this weekend I will take those pictures of the new crossovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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