Audyssey Denon calibration. Old MCACC EQ thread

[derrickdj1]

. My AVR is a VSX-32 small potatoes to yours,

The VSX 32 is a great avr and all Pioneer Elite AVR's pretty much have the same setup and tweaking tool. I don't touch the EQ trims because I have found that if I stray to far from the MCACC settings, it throws everything off. I found myself still learning things about 1 1/2 years after buying the SC 35. I like checking out The Official Pioneer MCACC thread on AVS forum that covers all Pioneer models since they all share a common autocalibration system.

[dimanata2007]

I don't see any fresh threads about Audyssey calibration and instead of a new one, I decided to continue my old thread.

I got a new Denon X2400H a few days ago and have a few issues and concerns abot the AVR and Audyssey.

When I'm running Audyssey I hear weird light cracking sound, like an electrical noise, but it sounds more like cracking, not humming, coming from all speakers simultaneously, except the sub . The noise is audible only when the setup is paused, so you can move the microphone. When the mic is set and I press "next" the noise stops and the test tone starts, and as soon as the test tone stops, the noise starts again. I reran the Audyssey yesterday again, this time with a tripod and absolute silence and herd the same noise again...

Is it possible banana plugs (Mediadbridge 24K gold plated) that I used for the Denon are causing some interference with Audyssey test signal? 

 

My first and yesterday's runs set speaker levels and distances absolutely identically:

Front (RF-82II) -Large  Full range (I crossed it at 40Hz)

Center RC-62II) -Small crossed at 60Hz

Surrounds (SS-1) -Small crossed at 120Hz

 

Audyssey set Speaker level:

Front Left -6.5dB Right -4.5dB

Center -8dB 

Surround Left -3.5 Right -5dB

Sub  -12dB

 

MultEQ- On

Dynamic EQ -ON

Dynamic Volume-ON

 

I watched a few movies and different episodes and had to lower the surround level to Left -5dB Right -6.5dB, cuz they were way to loud and intrusive. Besides that I haven't changed anything yet.

The second issue I have is the Denon's very low loudness level. My Pioneer has a 250W power supply and 80 Watt per channel rated at 20-20K Hz, and has a maximum volume level displayed on the display of 90 points. The Denon has a 500W power supply and rated at 95 WPC at 20-20Kz and has maximum volume level of 98 points. I don't like really loud sounds and my Pioneer volume in HT mode usually stayed between 33 and 38 points or 12-15 points less than the halve of the maximum. In order to get to the same level of the audible  loudness, I have to turn the Deon's volume to 45-50 and even 50+ points or halve of the maximum. I don't know if this is the correct assumption, but I'm assuming that since the Denon should be louder, the volume points should be noticeably lower than the half of its maximum volume.

 

One more concern. No mater for how long my Pioneer was on in HT mode and even in stereo mode running at 3/4 of the maximum loudness for a few hours its top never got hot to the touch. The Denon is getting much hotter only after a few hours of running at halve of the maximum volume. Does it means the Pioneer has more efficient and better designed power supply and power board? I was under impression that since the Pioneer is an entry level AVR and the Denon is a mid level, the Denon should be better designed and built.

 

Any opinions, especially form Denon owners are welcome. Thanks.

 

 

[Zen Traveler]

1 hour ago, dimanata2007 said:

My first and yesterday's runs set speaker levels and distances absolutely identically:

Front (RF-82II) -Large  Full range (I crossed it at 40Hz)

Center RC-62II) -Small crossed at 60Hz

Surrounds (SS-1) -Small crossed at 120Hz

I gather the weak link is the sub. Dunno how it handles the lower end so I hesitate to tell you to turn your mains to Small and possibly running them as Large and setting a crossover lets you do the double bass thing--If not, run all speakers to small and crossover your speakers higher. I would go 80 hz for Mains and center.

 

1 hour ago, dimanata2007 said:

Audyssey set Speaker level:

Front Left -6.5dB Right -4.5dB

Center -8dB 

Surround Left -3.5 Right -5dB

Sub  -12dB

 

The trims on your speakers appear to be in line however your sub at -12 makes me think you need to turn the volume on the sub down and run audyssey again. {Note: that is if -12 is the limit on your AVR}

1 hour ago, dimanata2007 said:

MultEQ- On

Dynamic EQ -ON

Dynamic Volume-ON

Not a fan of Dynamic Volume so I would leave that off.

1 hour ago, dimanata2007 said:

I watched a few movies and different episodes and had to lower the surround level to Left -5dB Right -6.5dB, cuz they were way to loud and intrusive. Besides that I haven't changed anything yet.

Okay, but if you ran Audyssey correctly I would set the trims back where they were and once again, turn Dynamic Volume off--That's me.

1 hour ago, dimanata2007 said:

...In order to get to the same level of the audible  loudness, I have to turn the Deon's volume to 45-50 and even 50+ points or halve of the maximum. I don't know if this is the correct assumption, but I'm assuming that since the Denon should be louder, the volume points should be noticeably lower than the half of its maximum volume.

Not sure what you mean by points but if you are talking about numbers on the Main Volume I would think moderately loud would be -25 to -22 with "0" being Reference Level. I usually play DVD concerts loud at -18 to -16, along with movies all of the way to -3 to -6, which is admittedly loud but very AWESOME. Fwiw, if your max volume goes up to +10 then anything in the -25 to -18 should sound pretty good unless you are hearing distortion.

 

1 hour ago, dimanata2007 said:

One more concern. No mater for how long my Pioneer was on in HT mode and even in stereo mode running at 3/4 of the maximum loudness for a few hours its top never got hot to the touch. The Denon is getting much hotter only after a few hours of running at halve of the maximum volume. Does it means the Pioneer has more efficient and better designed power supply and power board? I was under impression that since the Pioneer is an entry level AVR and the Denon is a mid level, the Denon should be better designed and built.

 

Any opinions, especially form Denon owners are welcome. Thanks.

 

 

I own several Denons and my guess is that the video processing adds to the heat you aren't used to.

[dimanata2007]

Zen Traveler, thanks for the reply.

I'll go through it later when I get a new receiver.

I spoke to Denon support and they said that my Audyssey "cracking noise" most likely is related to a defective microprocessor. After the hard reset the frequency and loudness of the noise has changed, but it still present, so I'm exchanging the receiver.

 

[wvu80]

3 hours ago, dimanata2007 said:

Is it possible banana plugs (Mediadbridge 24K gold plated) that I used for the Denon are causing some interference with Audyssey test signal? 

I doubt it.  The Mediabridge are first rate (the best IMO) and I've never heard of them causing any problems with sound or test signals.

 

13 minutes ago, dimanata2007 said:

I spoke to Denon support and they said that my Audyssey "cracking noise" most likely is related to a defective microprocessor. After the hard reset the frequency and loudness of the noise has changed, but it still present, so I'm exchanging the receiver.

I was beginning to suspect something wrong with the Denon AVR as well.  I've just never heard of that crackling sound before, but is sounds like the Denon support people have.

[dimanata2007]

ok. We are back in business.  

Surprisingly (or not) my new calibration results are identical to the first and second one except the subwoofer and crossover point for surrounds

Front left -6, Front right -4.5 set as Full (I changed it to small, crossed at 40Hz)
Center -8 set as Small crossed at 60Hz
Sub -7.5 (was set at 1/4 of volume during the calibration)
Surr left -3.5, Surr right -5 set as Small crossed at 150Hz (used to be 120 Hz) 
LPF of LFE 120Hz
MultEQ On Reference -5dB
Dynamic EQ ON
Dynamic Volume OFF
Cinema EQ ON

 

[dimanata2007]

On 1/20/2018 at 2:05 PM, Zen Traveler said:

Not sure what you mean by points but if you are talking about numbers on the Main Volume I would think moderately loud would be -25 to -22 with "0" being Reference Level. I usually play DVD concerts loud at -18 to -16, along with movies all of the way to -3 to -6, which is admittedly loud but very AWESOME. Fwiw, if your max volume goes up to +10 then anything in the -25 to -18 should sound pretty good unless you are hearing distortion.

 

I'm not good with dB and was referring to the volume level shown on the display of the Denon and Pioneer. The Denon volume goes from 0 to 98, Pioneer's from 0 to 90. According to the specs the Denon should be louder, however in reality it's not.  I found the option in the menu to increase the Source Level  and increased to +6dB (it goes from 0 to +12 dB) and it helped some, but not much. 

[dimanata2007]

Just for the history, I turned everything off  and spend a few hrs yesterday playing with different settings.

At the end, I left Audyssey ON:

MultEQ On Reference Level

Dynamic EQ ON

Dynamic Volume Off

Dialog Level Adjust +1dB

Sub Level Adjust -6dB

Cinema EQ Off

Loudness Management Off

Dynamic compression Off

 

The manual EQ, I turned Audyssey off and lowered the Xo for the surrounds to 80Hz and kept all other settings as is, sounds a bit harsh and less realistic in some situations, but anyway, turning off most of the "audio nannies" dramatically improved the sound and I think even raised the loudness a bit.

Now I need a pair of small speakers and I'll be ready for Atmos.

[dimanata2007]

I'm planning to expand to Atmos 5.1.2 and need two height speakers that will be mounted on the wall above the front left and right speakers. 

I know I can use regular bookshelf and WDST speakers instead of dedicated Atmos speakers, but not sure which speakers are better suited for Atmos. I  have a pair RS-7 that I've tried as surrounds, but cuz of their size and my surrounds location I decided to switch back to SS-1. After looking around I set my eyes on either R-14m or R-15m. I think I can get a pair of R-14m for around $120 or R-15m for around $170. 

Now, my question is, do I use the RS-7 as wall mounted height speakers or it would be like using a howitzer to hunt rabbits and the R-14m or R-15m would work better in my room?

I see a few options:

1. Get a pair of R-14m or R-15m and sell RC-7.

2. Use the RS-7 as height speakers.

 

Since the RS-7 are WDST speakers are they more or less suitable for Atmos channels?

They say the wall mounted Atmos speakers should be positioned l at least 3ft below the ceiling and then angled down to MLP.  

My room is 12x16 ft, 8ft ceiling. Imo positioning the heights speakers at 5ft sounds too low. Should I mount them higher? If so, how high? What is the optimal height for the RS-7 and R-14m/R-15m if the ceiling is 8ft??  My left front is about a foot away from the corner and the right one is about 2.5 ft away from the corner, do I mount height speakers directly above the fronts or since the RC-7 are WDST speakers I can put them closer to the middle of the wall? How far from the left and right corner do I mount them in my case to avoid reflection from the side walls? 

[dimanata2007]

So would you keep RS-7 or buy a pair of R-14m or R-15m?