kenratboy Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Here is the e-mail, unedited, my origional e-mail is in bold and his responce is in normal text. I asked a question about a product he reviewed, but also made a comment about speaker cable, he also disses ok Klipsch and Paul W. using zip cord. He may have been justified in doing so if he didn't take the speaker cable part as a light-hearted comment, but this guy specified a $1150 POWER CORD for the system. If you think I am a jerk, remember, this guy is 100% SNOB, but he does know the hobby, and records recerds. Am I a jerk, or is he a snob? > Hello, Hi. Thanks for writing. > > I came across a May 2002 issue of Stereophile and read the article under "The > Fifth Element" section (pg. 47-49) The article was very interesting and > informative (plus a good article to get system ideas from.), but I have one > question. > > Under "System 6" (the $90,000 one) I did not see a preamp listed for the > system. I looked at all of the components on their respected web sites, and > saw nothing to indicate a preamp. > > Was there a typo, or does the Accuphase unit work as a preamp? Yes, IF your sources are all digital. And, if you want to use analog sources, I believe you can get an A to D card for one of the slots in the frame. I think it had five modular slots and two come filled. > > Thanks for the help! Your article does a good job of lighting the fire of > dreams! > > Kenneth Harden > Reno, NV > > > P.S. I would NEVER EVER spend $1150 for a POWER CABLE. I can appreciate > $10,000 speakers (the B&W 801's got my attention years ago) and an expensive > tube amp, but not $1,000+ cables (or $100.) > > Paul W. Klipsch used zip cord. So do I (10 gague and gold banana plugs.) Well, what can I say. You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to my 20 years' experience producing award-winning classical recordings. I also gather that I have more experience in hearing expensive power cords than you do. I would never tell anyone to start with an expensive power cord. Room acoustics are first. But when one is seeking to optimize the performance of an expensive system, in most cases good power cords are necessary. The CPCC cords I recommended at that price point contain three active networks which shunt RFI to ground. I think that one is better off with a Plinius integrated amplifier and an excellent power cord and interconnect and speaker cables than Plinius separates and generic stuff. But again, that is on the assumption that the room acoustics are OK and the speakers and amp appropriate for each other. I know that expensive power cords are a "third rail issue," and indeed in my November 2001 column I lambasted companies that are selling snake oil. But the fact that there are some companies selling snake oil does not mean that other companies are not selling cords with innovative engineering at cost multipliers that are equivalent to other product categories. Mr. Klipsch was a charming ideologue whose speakers suffered terminally from Doppler distortion, but played loud. May he and they rest in peace, along with much zip cord. Cordially, __________________________ John Marks John Marks Records: http://www.jmrcds.com Free newsletter on culture and the arts: http://www.topica.com/lists/jmrcds END E-MAIL Here is a Klipsch joke by a not-so-snobby Stereophile editor who was reviewing a pair of Odeon La Traviata speakers (horn, 3-ways, non-horn woofer): Paul Klipsch spies Amar Bose across the street. Klipsch puts his hands up to his mouth to form a horn and yells, "Hello Amar!" Amar hears and sees him, turns his back to Paul, puts his open hands together about 6" away and slightly offset from his mouth, and yells, "Hello Paul!" ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 he bashed PWK! GET THE PITCH FORKS BOY's, There's a-gonna be a riot and a lynchen! oh how i loathe the free subscription of Stereophile i was just awarded... don't know from who or how... but it is here. ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric D Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Now, Now. This is America - we have due process. I say "give him a fair trial, followed by a first-class hanging!" Eric (who just watched Silverado over the weekend!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Loved that movie. I pay no attention to what these goofball audio writers have to say (except Colin :-). I listen to my ears and they tell me what's for real and what's not. I take everything else with a grain of salt. Most of these guys just hype whoever's advertising in their Rag and we know Klipsch ain't doing a lot of advertising. Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike82 Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 RE: "Mr. Klipsch was a charming ideologue whose speakers suffered terminally from Doppler distortion, but played loud. May he and they rest in peace, along with much zip cord." I'm kind of surprised that John would make that kind of remark. I met John a few years ago at CES and found him to be a thoughtful music lover. I would add the John can also be considered an ideologue in that he recommends the unconventionally designed Shahinian loudspeakers. Dick Shahinian is definately an ideologue who also loves music. I guess what ultimately matters in the end is your personal preference in musical reproduction. However, your comment about "never, ever, using a $1150 power cord" is impetuous, condescending, and also an ideological statement, albeit an inexperienced one. You opened that can of worms. And I would also agree that his experience surpasses yours to a significant level. Power cords do make a difference. While I was a SoundStage! reviewer for 3 1/2 years, I had the opportunity to audition and actually reviewed power cords for one issue. Some cords suck and are "snake oil" as John pointed out, but others can indeed make a remarkable improvement to your systems. However, you may not hear much difference over your receiver, but once you get into high performance electronics, synergy becomes critical and power cords, even the $1150 ones, become an issue. The nice thing about the audio bulletin boards is one can share ideas and experiences and hopefully climb the steep audio learning curve faster and with fewer mistakes ultimately saving you lots of $$$$. Regards, Mike Masztal ------------------ Transport: CEC TL-2X DAC: Audiomat Maestro Pre-amp: Wyetech Jade Amps: Wyetech Onyx monoblock Interconects: Analysis Plus Solo Monocrystal Speaker cable: Analysis Plus Solo Monocrystal Power cords: CPCC Top Gun and Model 11 Line conditioner: CPCC Super Power Block Equip Stand: Grand Prix Audio Monaco Currently hunting Klipsch (Khorn, Belle, Lascala) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted July 1, 2002 Author Share Posted July 1, 2002 Let me ask you this, in a kind anf friendly manner (I don't want to make enimies): You plug a $1150 power cord into the wall, what do you have? CHEAP CRAP! There are $1 outlets, dozens, if not 100's of feet of cheap power cable, all the way back to the circuit breaker, whick goes to the transformer, etc. The acutal power is made at the power station and goes through 100's, or 1000's of miles of lines, which are exposed to all sorts of distortion. I don't think the power company or the general used Kimber Select when they build the electrical systems. Also, I am sure the copper windings are not 99.9999% pure copper. What does a power cord do? I have read articles both audio and science prespective) that say ever an expensive power cable WILL NOT improve sound, but simply retain the signal, whether it be sound, video, or power. It will also retain the flaws. If you look at a piece of lab equiptment (even the stuff thats used to make the $1150 power cable), it is ment to get power from ~50-70 Hz. and 90-140 volts and RETAIN THE ACCURACY THAT IS THOUSANDS OF TIMES BETTER THAN ANY HUMAN COULD EVER ACHEIVE OR PRECEIVE. Look at stuff in hospitals, they are designed to get crap power inputs and preform FLAWLESSLY. Remember, on most ALL electronics, the line power is put into it, and them immediatly stepped up or down, modern circuitry in my computers PSU can make the voltage from 120 volts to 5 or 12 volts within a tenth to a fiftieth of the required voltage, beyond that, there are various passive (as in not electronically noisy) components that can deliver the power to my CPU withing a 100th+ of a volt. I can set my CPU to 1.75, 1.76, 1.77 volts etc. and it is PERFECT, ALWAYS, or I would not be writing this message. Oh, this power supply was under $50. This is all in a cheap computer, let alone a $25,000+ power amp with no cost restrictions. Also, if I start using a $1150 power cable on my system, I am going to sasy it sounds better. What I am saying, reguardless of price, a power cable made out of the same stuff as the miles of power cable running to your house should be as good as a $1150 power cable. Is buying expensive cable fun? YOU BET!!! Is it a way to get a better system? No, as long as its decent. This is NOT about interconnection cables, but a POWER CABLE. I have a $10 S-video cable, thats a LOT for me, I could have gotten one for 90 cents, but I wanted sheilding and gold connections. ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike82 Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Well, it sounds like you have all the answers. How can I argue against that? ------------------ Transport: CEC TL-2X DAC: Audiomat Maestro Pre-amp: Wyetech Jade Amps: Wyetech Onyx monoblock Interconects: Analysis Plus Solo Monocrystal Speaker cable: Analysis Plus Solo Monocrystal Power cords: CPCC Top Gun and Model 11 Line conditioner: CPCC Super Power Block Equip Stand: Grand Prix Audio Monaco Currently hunting Klipsch (Khorn, Belle, Lascala) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Kenratboy-- The snobby answer was brought on directly by the tone of your questioning. You were, after all, making fun of the whole notion of an $1150 power cord, the whole notion that cables matter at all! So he attacked back and trashed Klipsch as well--but YOU were the one that opened that can of worms. By the way, power cords DO make a difference. I made up several of the "asylum cords" for my vintage MAC gear and Thorens 124 turntable and FOR SURE the background got WAY quieter, "blacker" if you will. I think all of the cords (four of them) cost me about 200 bucks total and were worth every penny. Now, would $1150 cords be better? Not in my modest little system with all that tube noise, Thorens rumble and Doppler distortion(?), but who the hell knows? Not me, that's for sure and not you either! And if anyone has the background and experience to know, Mr. Marks is probably the guy. I used 12 guage zip for years and now use Nordost Blue Heaven speaker cable. It makes a HUGE difference as well, but there's no use arguing about that on this forum, is there? Let's stick to Klipsch worship! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 I have been trying to write this all afternoon but for one reason or another work came before pleasure...I hate when that happens! I am pretty new to all this "high end" audio gear. I started on the upgrade-itis path few years ago and I have made significant (to me) improvements to my system. I have been through a ton of equipment on my search for quality sound, starting with SS receivers, separates, tube integrateds, tube separates etc. etc. and most of you probably know I have ended up with K-horns and Moondogs for my 2 channel listening. I have tried various speaker cables, interconnects, power cords etc. and too many tweaks to mention. I have been able to tell some differences sometimes but not often. More often than not the upgrade I listened to deteriorated the sound rather than improve it, if I could hear any difference at all. I was contacted by Mike82 had asked if he could come over and listen to my rig because he is a fan of SET amps and he was interested in some fully horn loaded speakers. He also asked if he could bring "a few things" with him. He also mentioned he was a former reviewer for SoundStage! magazine. Mike came over last Saturday and he did bring a few things. After we introduced ourselves I started making excuses for the state of my system, an unfinished basement and my non-corner loaded K-horns, with only some ¾" MDF that used to be tacked to the back of them. Mike brought his first "tweak" out of his front pocket with a big grin. Roller blocks! Roller blocks!! LOL!! I am skeptical to say the least. I had a big grin too...what am I going to say to him when he sticks those things under my CD player and they do nothing? I am telling each of you that if you haven't tried roller blocks you should. The difference in the sound was immediate and dramatic. It was like someone focused an out of focus image. Everything just sounded clearer to me, more distinct with "air" around the instruments. Tighter and more musical bass. I was totally impressed. Just like I have heard others say, like lifting a veil from the speakers. Mike gave the roller blocks to me for allowing him to come over and listen to my system. I will be buying more for my CD/DVD players. I'm only going to mention one other thing in this post because that is what this post is mostly about. Power cords. Yea sure. I bought upgraded power cords a year or so ago from dedicated audio. They were one of those tweaks that I couldn't hear any difference, but they look way cooler than black rubber cords and so I keep them around to impress the girls. Mike wanted to put a pair of those CPCC Top Gun Model 11 power cords on the Moondogs. Yea right, another of those tweaks that I had already experimented with and I couldn't tell any difference. And to top it off they are a pain in the butt because they are so stiff and heavy. We cranked the same CD we had been using for a reference. Bottom line: lower noise floor. Like Allan said, blacker background. Better bass definition too. I think I am learning some of the "audiofool" terms because I am starting to hear them: microdynamics! These cords made a real difference in my system. They are expensive but probably in the $150 range. I looked for some at AudiogoN but everyone who listed some for sale has sold them. 'nuff said. Would I use these PC's in my HT? No. 1st I doubt I could hear the difference and 2nd they are too stiff to bend around much of anything. I doubt I could have heard the difference if components weren't already very revealing enough to let the changes through. Would a $1000 cord sound better, I doubt it, not without some majors upgrades down stream Speaking of Quote kenratboy "You plug a $1150 power cord into the wall, what do you have? CHEAP CRAP! There are $1 outlets, dozens, if not 100's of feet of cheap power cable, all the way back to the circuit breaker, whick goes to the transformer, etc. The acutal power is made at the power station and goes through 100's, or 1000's of miles of lines, which are exposed to all sorts of distortion." I have actually installed 3 dedicated circuits 1 for each of my amps and 1 for the rest of the components. I used high quality outlets and I will upgrade them to Michael Brinkman outlets when I finish my basement. That gives me at least limited control of the power going to my components. I am not trying to pick on anyone. I was going to write a post tonight about the roller blocks, but I wanted to share my experience with power cords from them weekend when this thread started the subject. Thanks for the experience Mike! ------------------ 2 Channel System: '78 Khorns w/ALK networks Welborne Labs Moondog 2A3 amps AES AE-3 Superpreamp DJH mods McIntosh MCD 7007 CD McIntosh MR-78 Tuner DIYCable Twisted Cross Connect Speaker Cable DIYCable Superlatives (preamp/amp) DH Labs Silver Pulse interconnects (sources/preamp) f> s> This message has been edited by edster00 on 07-01-2002 at 05:26 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 There is one thing a 3-way Klipsch horn-loaded system CANNOT suffer from and it's Doppler distortion. Horn loading and small diaphragm movements prevent it. A 2-way monitor with a 6-inch "woofer" crossed at 2k is the prescription for doppler distortion. Credibility blown. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 the motion of a loudspeaker driver producing a low frequency tone would cause an alternating frequency shift in any higher frequencies reproduced by the same driver. The cone is moving, toward you, then away from you, just like the train, and this is stipulated as a source of distortion. what has this got to do with horns? ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Hey Ed, Can you give us some more info on the Roller Block's? Pictures, description, price, etc? Thanks, Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Mike Lindsey: Hey Ed, Can you give us some more info on the Roller Block's? Pictures, description, price, etc? Thanks, Mike here you go. they help relieve resonance and other vibrations from tt's. not sure how they would dramatically improve a cd player though. ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want <A HREF="maimailto:Promediatech@Klipsch.com">email Amy</A> or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> This message has been edited by justin_tx_16 on 07-01-2002 at 05:56 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 How Rollerblocks improve sound and picture Improvements in sound and picture quality are accomplished by reducing noise in the component (caused by vibration) which the Rollerblocks support. Rollerblocks drain and dissipate mechanical energy (vibration) which originates from the component itself, while providing isolation from external vibration. This specialized, two-pronged attack on vibratory energy distinguishes it from "ordinary" bearing devices, and is responsible for its effectiveness. Its single, top grade bearing in a polished, precision machined cup offers superior isolation performance with less "chatter" or bearing-induced noise than "bearing-and-race" devices using multiple bearings. Utilizing technology employed in earthquake protection and combining it with proprietary mechanical transmission techniques, Rollerblocks are the most sonically beneficial coupling devices available. Used beneath digital equipment, DVD players, preamplifiers and other components, results can be nothing less than astonishing. Increased focus, soundstaging, image stability, dynamics and delicacy are just a few of the sonic delights awaiting the serious audiophile. When used with an effective equipment base (such as Symposium Platforms), Rollerblocks provide an additional step toward ideal equipment support, which is simultaneous component isolation and drainage of chassis-borne vibration. The strength of the Rollerblock is its simple yet effective design. They are small enough to be unobtrusively inserted into any system with a minimum of fuss and setup, and require little or no maintenance or adjustment. Unlike flat race devices, Rollerblocks are self-centering and do not require that the component or the support surface be level, or that their surfaces be parallel. Also, if the component is touched or moved, the component will simply return to its center position and not bind up. Description Rollerblocks are made from solid, rectangular blocks of extremely hard alloy aircraft aluminum, and are finished with a black "hard-coat" anodizing. This relatively thin, special layer, harder than the aircraft aluminum itself (which is harder than some types of steel), improves contact efficiency and provides "constrained layer" resonance damping to the body. The bottom of the Rollerblock has four beveled edges, and a matrix consisting of a pattern of holes. This unique design improves mechanical coupling between the body of the block and the supporting surface, like a cone, but with much greater stability. The matrix is filled with an acoustically absorbent material. On the top surface is a precision, spherical depression which is polished to a mirror finish, specified at 6 microns or better. This is an especially good finish, difficult to manufacture with precision. It is absolutely necessary, however, for state of the art results in a bearing isolation device! A single precision ball sits in the cup depression, and rests at the bottom. At least three Rollerblocks are placed beneath a component so that the component's chassis contacts the tops of the three balls, which now function as bearings. The component rests directly or indirectly upon the ball bearings, which rest at the bottom of the polished cup. Theory of Operation Vibration affects the performance of electronic components, usually with negative results, and originates from sources outside or inside the component. Rigid supports such as cones or spikes provide an efficient escape route for vibration otherwise trapped in the component. These devices work by acting as a crude "waveguide" for mechanical energy, funnelling energy to a point and forcing it to enter the support structure at 90 degrees, the optimum approach angle for energy transfer. While there are some directional characteristics to these devices in that more energy can flow from the large area side to the point side than the reverse, they are unable to isolate or absorb low frequency waves, as these readily traverse the pathway, moving the support structure, the cones, and ultimately the component. Such low-frequency external vibration, including footfalls, sound, or shock waves from loudspeakers or other sources, can be reduced by introducing a high compliance between the component and the support, such as rubber air bag devices, or very soft, compliant materials. While these devices decouple or convert vibration to a lower, less harmful frequency, they also trap vibrations in the component itself. In other words, what can't come in also can't get out! Worse, rubber-like materials store and release energy back into the component, and usually worsen results with a new source of secondary vibration. Thus, it is desirous to isolate the component, but at the same time provide an escape route for internal vibration. Buzzing transformers, CD servo and disk motors, or even junctions of "singing" solid state devices (caused by the heat expansion and contraction of elements subjected to high current densities) can all be sources of internal vibration. By efficiently coupling the component's chassis to a non-resonant drainage sink, or mechanical "ground," we can provide an escape route for this vibration. The conduit for vibration flowing out of the component must be rigid, since flexible materials don't transmit energy well. But, since we also want to isolate the component from external vibration, this support must also be flexible. These requirements are mutually contradictory - akin to a "soft hardness!" Symposium Rollerblocks fulfill this seemingly contradictory condition by combining a ball with a receptacle optimized for vibration transmission - the Rollerblock body. Precision machined from hard metal, it makes an excellent conductive path for vibratory energy, one far superior to woods, plastics, or rubber. The matrix on the bottom relegates surface contact to the ridges between the holes (with increased pressure) and serves as a mechanical waveguide. Vibratory energy travels through the steel ball, then the block body, and is "guided" down irregularly shaped pillars of metal (the "honeycomb" matrix). The energy is able to pass into the support structure at multiple points and at a more optimal angle, and this enables it to more efficiently penetrate the supporting surface. Acoustically absorbent material in the holes dissipates some of this energy as heat, and eliminates any resonances which might be caused by the hole cavities. Low frequency waves from the support structure cause physical displacement of the support and the Rollerblock body. As this "microearthquake" occurs, the Rollerblock ball rolls - or "slips" - between the Rollerblock body and the equipment chassis. As the Rollerblock body moves, it pushes the ball and the component up the sides of the polished cup, dissipating the energy as work. At all times, however, there is contact between the component chassis and the Rollerblock body through the bearing, providing an unbroken, constant-metal drainage path for vibration otherwise trapped in the component, even while it is "decoupled" and able to move relative to the support. The rolling, rigid, single ball bearing contact, mated to a receptacle optimized for mechanical energy transmission, effectively achieves a dual coupler/decoupler in a simple, elegant solution. The design is patented. Summary Rollerblocks will make sonic improvements with all components, but the most dramatic usually occur with digital equipment, such as CD players, DACs and dedicated transports. Improvements in dynamics, transient response, and overall "air" and clarity suggest enhanced information retrieval from digital disks, probably due in part to Rollerblocks' unsurpassed ability to dissipate and isolate the minute rotational mode vibrations caused by these devices' spinning platter mechanisms. Beneath DVD players, greater clarity and image sharpness can be realized. The reduction of vibration and its effects upon audio and video components brings the audiophile or videophile a significant step closer to optimal performance. The most highly reviewed footer device in the world is really not an accessory, but must be considered a component. As one reviewer said, "the Symposium Rollerblocks function just like a component which can stand the test of time for they will never be obsolete." Rollerblock Specifications Dimensions: 2" x 1" x 0.75" (5x2.5x1.9 cm) Material: 7075 aircraft alloy aluminum Finish: Black "hard coat" anodized with laser-etched legends Bearings: Chromium Steel standard; Tungsten Carbide optional Matrix material: Acoustic foam Suggested Weight Limit: Set of 3: 300 lbs. Set of 4: 400 lbs. Each Rollerblock Set is individually numbered Rollerblocks are protected by U.S. Patent #5,804,776 Please click here for configuration and pricing information Each Rollerblock Set contains detailed set-up instructions, 3 precision Rollerblock bodies, 3 chromium steel grade 25 balls, and 3 stainless steel "Rollerplates" for use with irregular or rough equipment chassis. cost you ask? if you have to ask, they are too much around $275 I think, or drastically more. ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 learn something? hope this was not a waste of time, i think it is pretyt interesting. still, how does it change the sound SO much in a cd player i wonder... minimal vibrations as it is... and what would that do to a cd palyer of high quality anyways? ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike82 Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 The actual roller devices I brough over to Edster's place were the Darumas by Final Labs. www.finalabs.com I also have the Symposium Rollerblocks with titanium balls (~$420)and the Solid-Tech suspension device ($295). The Darumas, at $99 retail are by far the best value. The Rollerblocks with titanium balls sound best under my CEC TL-2X transport than the regular balls, and also better than the Solid-Tech and Darumas. And a double sandwich of Rollerblocks is even better, but major diminishing returns and the cost is about $700!!! I don't get into discussions on how/why they work, etc. They just do. I don't recommend the Aurios rollers though as they use three balls and need to be placed between absolutely parallel surfaces to be fully effective. Try the Darumas, they're relatively cheap and I think you'll be impressed. ------------------ Transport: CEC TL-2X DAC: Audiomat Maestro Pre-amp: Wyetech Jade Amps: Wyetech Onyx monoblock Interconects: Analysis Plus Solo Monocrystal Speaker cable: Analysis Plus Solo Monocrystal Power cords: CPCC Top Gun and Model 11 Line conditioner: CPCC Super Power Block Equip Stand: Grand Prix Audio Monaco Currently hunting Klipsch (Khorn, Belle, Lascala) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Here is the correct address to Final Labs. Mike82's was incorrect, so if you got a warning that the site does not exist, please click here http://www.finallab.com/new_page_1.htm ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Mike, Can these go under a TT as well as a CD player? Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Mike Lindsey: Mike, Can these go under a TT as well as a CD player? Thanks, Mike Yes. ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 I'll let Justin answer the tough questions! FWIW I took the Darumas roller block back out of my system and listened again. I then took a leap of faith and asked my lovely wife to come down and listen to a cut or two of some of her favorite music (which she didn't want to do). She says "if we don't finish the basement she won't come down there, ever"...I say "Okay, we won't finish it off and we'll both be happy". Now she wants to start decorating down there. "What do you mean you only want 2 chairs and no coffee table? Where are the lamps going to go?" "Upstairs" I say. But I digress...even she could tell the difference immediately. All I can say is that the roller devices seem to isolate the CD/DVD player from vibrations in the room and the results are impressive. Best tweak I have ever heard. Mike did tell me that he didn't think the Symposiums would be a price effective upgrade from the Darumas devices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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