Mike82 Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 RatBoy: Originally posted by kenratboy: I would LOVE to talk to some real men (or women) who make a business out of recording, what do THEY USE AND BUY? Well, you might email John Marks again, but use a more congenial tone. IMO&E, John is one of the best music recording producers out there. The quality of his recordings consistently exceeds that of even the better labels: Hyperion, Harmonia Mundi, Astree Auvidis, nevermind the so-so quality of Sony, DG, EMI, Philips, etc. I doubt John uses the latest, greatest equipment as the major labels tend to have the best, but he does consistently gets the best sound. May he can tell you how he does it. ------------------ Transport: CEC TL-2X DAC: Audiomat Maestro Pre-amp: Wyetech Jade Amps: Wyetech Onyx monoblock Interconects: Analysis Plus Solo Monocrystal Speaker cable: Analysis Plus Solo Monocrystal Power cords: CPCC Top Gun and Model 11 Line conditioner: CPCC Super Power Block Equip Stand: Grand Prix Audio Monaco Currently hunting Klipsch (Khorn, Belle, Lascala) This message has been edited by Mike82 on 07-02-2002 at 06:39 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 deang, good post and thanks for the link. Everyone: I too am a real skeptic. I did not believe the roller blocks and or power cords would/could improve anything. I had already tried upgraded power cords and I couldn't hear a difference. I don't believe putting the roller blocks under my DVD player in the HT will make a difference (but based on my experience from Sat. I am sure going to give them a try). I bi-wired my RF-3's and RC-3 with Kimber cable...I can't hear a difference. I do think that my 2 channel system has reached a point where some of these tweaks are recognizable, but not all changes are beneficial. I have tried a lot of gear that I immediately sold because I either couldn't tell a difference (most common) or didn't like. Anything that has been in my 2 channel system for more than a month I thought was an improvement. I won't be buying Symposium roller blocks @$450/set, but at $100 IMHO the Darumas is an effective and relatively inexpensive tweak. I won't be buying $1000 power cords, nor $500 power cords, but $150 power cords are more within my price range if I can actually hear an improvement (I did with the CPCC Top Gun Model 11's, I didn't with the Dedicated Audio power cords). Quote deang: Ed, I would just ask you: Did your wife just sit down in front of your system and exclaim -- "Oh my gosh Ed, what did you do! The bass is so much better, the treble goes on forever, and the soundstage is so much more expansive!" "Check it out honey, it's these little balls! No, not those! These!!" LOL! Nope, what I did do was to take the roller blocks out from under the CD player before she came downstairs. We listened to the opening cut of one of her favorite CDs then I stopped the player and put the roller blocks back under it. We then listened to the same cut over again. Then she said "Oh my gosh Ed, what did you do?!". After my basement is done and my 2 channel system is back up and running, anyone is welcome to come over and give it a listen. Regarding experts, engineers, mathematicians etc: One of my favorite High School teachers taught algebra. She very convincingly proved mathematically that you cannot throw a baseball through a window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Ed, interesting. I did get a nice Kimber power cord with my Superamp when I bought it. It came along with the ride. I went back and forth between it and a ridiculously thick power cable I got out of a 'garbage' box at work that had been used to power a huge Compaq server. I couldn't tell a bit of difference. Why not just set your player on some nice thick bubble wrap or acoustic foam --or maybe put some dimes under the feet? It would at least be interesting to try to see if the net effect is the same. Seems to me there are other effective ways of isolation and damping.f>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Justin - Nice Tascam! The DAP1 is widely used by some friends of mine - perfect for recording live concerts (with the band's permission, of course). It was such a pleasure to listen to the Kansas City SCI concert 2 hours after it happened I also noticed the Technics disc player - is that an SLP550?? It looks very familiar, and was a very good machine when built. ------------------ Klipsch Cornwall II's (mains) - Klipsch Academy (center channel) - Klipsch Chorus (surrounds) Krell Home Theater Standard processor - Outlaw 750 Amplifier (5x165) Bass Kit: 2 JBL 4638 LFE/Bass Reinforcement cabinets - Crown CE 1000 amplifier - Behringer Feedback Destroyer (Bass EQ) Sources: Pioneer DV-333 - 2 Aiwa ADF-850 3 head cassette decks - General Instruments cable box - Panasonic VHS PV-4459 - Digital Audio Labs CardDeluxe (computer sound) f> c> s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 quote: Originally posted by edster00: Regarding experts, engineers, mathematicians etc: One of my favorite High School teachers taught algebra. She very convincingly proved mathematically that you cannot throw a baseball through a window. Ed- I'd enjoy hearing more about this. Do you remember her explaination? fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 dean, My CD player is a Mac MCD-7007 and it uses panloc brackets to hold it in the typical Mac wooden cabinet. The feet on the cabinet are pretty tall and made of hard rubber. I tried some Vibrapods under it a year or so ago but they weren't tall enough to get the player off it's feet. You are not supposed to put the stock feet in the center of the Vibrapod either. I stacked a few of them on top of each other but it did't make any difference that I could hear. I just decided once again that isolation devices and other snake oil tweaks were bunk. Then Mike shows up and sticks these roller balls under it and...I immediately heard a change. Was it better? That took awhile longer to determine, about 60 seconds or so to listen enough material to start identifying what I was hearing. Everything was just clearer, cymbals were shimmering instead of sizzling. I have already posted what I heard in my first post on the subject so I won't go there again. You just have to hear it to understand. It is kind of like those optical illusion photos where you stare at a bunch of dots and all of a sudden you see a picture. Once you see the picture you almost can't not see it. fini, I can't remember all the details, but to the best of my recollection the gist of it was that we had to assume thatthe ball would travel 1/2 the distance to the window in a given amount of time. Let's say the ball would travel 1/2 the distance to the window in 1 sec. It would then travel 1/2 the remaining distance in the next 1/2 second, it would halve the distance again in the next 1/4 second and on it goes. As long as you are halving the distance it won't reach the window until halving results in zero which it can't mathematically. I know it is easier to prove the ball will reach the window but it was a fun excercise all the same (I was easily amused). This message has been edited by edster00 on 07-02-2002 at 10:51 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 quote: Originally posted by dndphishin: Justin - Nice Tascam! The DAP1 is widely used by some friends of mine - perfect for recording live concerts (with the band's permission, of course). It was such a pleasure to listen to the Kansas City SCI concert 2 hours after it happened I also noticed the Technics disc player - is that an SLP550?? It looks very familiar, and was a very good machine when built. Yes, we now have about 5 TASCAM DAT's... we only use one though haha. All are new though They are excellent. I broght that one with me to Denmark and recorded a sting concert... don't worry, we were with the press Amazing how well it does its job. That may be the model on the technics, i really don't know. like i said we have just recently replaced all this stuff, we still have it all, but we upgrade ever 1-2 years because technology changes so fast. in the photography department we have cameras that are 20 years old, yet they still take the best 72mm shots you can get! Nikon Cameras just don't break (we have another brand also, but the name escapes me). I was able to kill an F3 once. We were back in teh Cayman islands on my uncles boat and I was taking a picture of a clown fish with a water box attachment... well, the box hit apeice of coral and down went the camera. just for a few seconds but the salt just ripped it apart. when i get a chance, and remember to, the next time i go to the studio i will take pics of the new stuff and hoepfully the recording studio where the music actually goes down. ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike82 Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Deang: ____________________________________________________ You wrote: Why not just set your player on some nice thick bubble wrap or acoustic foam --or maybe put some dimes under the feet? It would at least be interesting to try to see if the net effect is the same. Seems to me there are other effective ways of isolation and damping. _____________________________________________________ I've tried that, along with bicycle tire tubes, thick fluffy pillows, cones- ceramic, aluminum, graphite resin, etc. Under CD players/t-ports, the roller balls work the best. Under amps, pre-amps, DACs, etc. I don't hear much difference with roller balls. I think resonance drainage is also in play in addition to isolation and damping. I don't fret over how it works,I just sit and enjoy the music. ------------------ Transport: CEC TL-2X DAC: Audiomat Maestro Pre-amp: Wyetech Jade Amps: Wyetech Onyx monoblock Interconects: Analysis Plus Solo Monocrystal Speaker cable: Analysis Plus Solo Monocrystal Power cords: CPCC Top Gun and Model 11 Line conditioner: CPCC Super Power Block Equip Stand: Grand Prix Audio Monaco Currently hunting Klipsch (Khorn, Belle, Lascala) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 fini and edster00, That thought experiment is many thousands of years old. The original version was first committed to history by Zeno of Elea, a pre-Socratic Greek philosopher. There were many versions; here's one: In a race between Achilles and a tortoise, Achilles may never catch a tortoise if it's given a head start in a race. Before he caught up to the tortoise, Achilles would have to reach a point half-way from his starting point and the tortoise, then he must go half-way again, and so to infinity. No matter where Achilles is in relation to the tortoise, he still has an infinity of half-way points to cross, so he can never catch up to the tortoise. There were also versions involving arrows and targets, races, other things. Most of this was an attempt by Zeno to make some of the more esoteric aspects of the philosophy of Parmenides more accessible to the general population of scholars. Parmenides of Elea founded the Eleatic School and taught that Being (or Existence) must be unchanging and unmoving, and so the changing world registered by our senses has no reality whatsoever and cannot be known at all (how can you "know" an illusion?). Only reason, without the senses, can lead us to the truth about existence, which neither moves nor changes nor has any parts. This is diametrically opposed to Heraclitus's view, and like Heraclitus's thought, the Eleatic school effectively mucked up Greek speculation about the nature of things for quite a few decades. However, the Parmenidean idea of the nature of reality would become the basis of Plato's thinking and would later become the foundation of the Christian theology of God. Heraclitus of Ephesus saw change as the unity of all things; he took movement or the contrary tension of things (such as a taut bow, which is potential movement because of the opposing forces at work) as forms of the mutual resolution of opposites. The unity underlying all change and opposition, but not existing outside of change and opposition, Heraclitus alternatively called the Logos or God. With Parmenides, Heraclitus is perhaps the most important philosopher before Plato, for the idea that nothing transcends change threw a monkey wrench in Greek speculation about physics and metaphysics and has formed the foundation of Western thinking ever since. To grossly oversimplify: Heraclitus taught that the only constant is change, and that everything we perceive can only exist as an expression of the change of reality from one state to the next. Parmenides taught that change is illusionary, that a thing can *NOT* exist both where it is, and where it is not; it can *ONLY* exist where it is, and therefore the perception that it has moved from where it was, and is not, to where it is, and was not, is an illusion caused by man's imperfect understanding of the nature of reality. Zeno was a follower of Parmenides and used the example of an infinate series of waypoints through which a an object must pass before reaching a destination, thereby implying an infinate amount of time, to "prove" that motion, therefore movement, therefore change was impossible. What Zeno missed, of course, is that the time lapsed in travelling between the successive halfway points itself tends to zero and the distance travelled tends to zero, and what we have is an infinate series converging on a point. Newton could have explained it to them pretty convincingly - the Greek's understood symbolic math pretty well; wonder what would have happeded if they'd invented Calculus? Ray, ever willing to wander increasing far off topic, even if movement away from the center is impossible. ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Ray's Music System This message has been edited by Ray Garrison on 07-02-2002 at 11:14 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted July 2, 2002 Author Share Posted July 2, 2002 Justin, would that be a Matrox doing the Dualhead on the Compaq monitors? I have a Matrox G550, son to be a Parhelia... Well, intro Monster cable (eventhough overpriced) fits my $10 power cable comments. I would not hook my system up with crap, but I am not going to spend $50, $100, $1150 on a power cable. I bet the power cable that came with the server blows away the $1150 one. ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 well, we needed the monster cable because this is a business, you want the best you can get. and we have hundreds of cables just waiting to be crossfed... so we try to get the best out of the system by preventing this kind of stuff, but no way $1000 cables. teh video card? don't know. it runs a dual PIII800 Mhz with 512mb ram and about 120gb of hard drive all scsi, but that is about all i know about that system ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeast Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 After reading this article ( http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/14476.html ) I think the stereophile editor doesn't quite understand doppler distortion. In PWK's horn designs the speaker cones dont move back and forth as far because the horn allows them to create a loud sound without moving as much. Therefor they would have LESS doppler distortion then other speaker types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Ray, Once again you amaze me by your veritable fountain of information. You even got the names right...my math teacher was Miss Zeno of Elea, I had her for home room also ! This message has been edited by edster00 on 07-02-2002 at 12:15 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Ed- How long will your 2-ch system be down? I am certainly interested in the rollers and what they did to improve your system. I know I'll be down in your neck of the woods in mid/late September doing satellite things, so maybe you can open my eyes to several things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 i think he said that they will be down for 6-8 weeks... or at least that it better be back up by september... not 100% sure though. ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 jhawk. I certainly hope the room is done by the time you are going to be in the area. If not I will going through some serious withdrawls. Remind me when the time gets closer and I'll let you know how the timing looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Well call me what you will, but I just ordered some of these Roller Balls for my turntable. I'll let you know what I think of them... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 mike, are those the gel half sphere isolators you're talkin of? i just got a set of those fro the dvd/cd player in the main room. work pretty well, though a lil pricey for these AQ versions even from audioadvisor (about $50). ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 07-02-2002 at 04:45 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 damn ed! now you have forced me to get out there and try the Darumas! if you can really hear the difference I am sure I will too....tweaks, tweaks, tweaks, a few more and I will be spiraling towards a divorce! regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 tony, As John so eloquently pointed out: <snip> It does NOT use earthquake foundation technology. John<snip> But for normal everyday use I think you will find they are an improvement! This message has been edited by edster00 on 07-02-2002 at 05:16 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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