Quadapter Back, Yay!

[whatever55]

The Hafler system isn't what I want for real 3D sound. I want discrete. I've written this up over the past week or so and its on my blog here. However, it's great for older sources. It may be my imagination as I can't really think of a technical reason why this would be so, but it seems to work better with analog than with digital sources.

Dave

Just a wild guess.... all analog with digital more filtering, processing, removing little pieces. Digital does sample at a certain rate no matter how high it still samples and that leaves out little pieces.

I also get best results from LP's Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath ( with Ozzy )

[Mallette]

Funny you should mention it, but I suspect there is a small but adequate market if someone would sell these things again. There always seems to be one or more on Ebay and it's a fairly safe buy since they are entirely passive.

Dave

[DizRotus]

You posted in the Single Driver thread some time ago that I would prefer the BR enclosure to the rear horn. Have you seen the thread lately? You were right. The BR enclosures are so sweet, I dismantled the rear horns and took 3 pair of RS 40-1197 drivers and built 5 BR enclosures. Four are alike and will be used in the QD-1 experiments.

I miss that sound. I no longer have any of my single driver speakers, like the Tekton. The last BR boxes I had (4.5" Tekton) were just barrels of fun. I contacted Tekton two weeks ago and never got a response. Not sure if he is OOB or just on vacay. Did you describe how you built your boxes in a thread somewhere? RS = Radio Shack?

Mark-

Not to hi-jack Dave's thread, but the thread at http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/56563.aspx describes the build. Yes RS stands for Radio Shack. Those drivers were, apparently, built by Fostex to be sold by Radio Shack.

BTW I've discovered that Mozilla allows links, where Chrome did not and I was unable to login on IE. I guess I'll be accessing the Klipsch forum via Mozilla for the forseeable future.

[DizRotus]

Dave,

I've read your blog about "Virtual Presence" and find it fascinating. Your repeated references to your cat not being fooled by even the best TV remind me of our late chinchilla, Max.

Max lived for 15 years in a large three level cage I built He was wild for live trombone music. When our son practiced the trombone, Max would rush out of the cooler in which he slept during the day (nocturnal) through the PVC tube (intended to minimize light and sound from entering the cooler) and cram his little face as close to the sound as possible.

Only live trombone music produced the result. Recorded trombone music did nothing. A chinchilla, like your cat, could not be fooled.

It was the sure way to get Max to make an appearance for visiting children who always wanted to see him. It got so merely the sound of opening the case would produce a Pavlovian response and Max's appearance. Nevertheless, if live trombone music didn't immediately follow, he would go back into the tube to the cooler, presumably to sulk.

Live saxophone did nothing for Max. It had to be LIVE trombone.

[DizRotus]

This photo gives a better idea of the cage and the tube leading to the cooler/sleeping quarters from which Max would emerge at the sound of the trombone.

Do you know how many chinchillas it takes to make a coat?

Three hundred . . . . . because their hands are so small.

[Mallette]

Neil, that is SO cool! Wish that chinch were still around. I'd love to run a test using Klipsch or equivalent playing a recording made the way I make them starting with the trombone case being opened, etc, exactly as you did with the real thing and from the same perspective to see if he could be fooled.

Real life "BS" detector. Gotta love it!

The "Mallette's Cat" test isn't as well known as Schrödinger's cat, but more applicable to our hobby and I have found it to be unerringly valid.

Dave

[bobgn1]

I had one of those back in the day, Dynaco also sold a pair of smaller speakers to be used with their Quadapter. I thought the Dyna set-up sounded better than the discreet Quad offerings (SQ) that were available back then.

[Mallette]

I had one of those back in the day, Dynaco also sold a pair of smaller speakers to be used with their Quadapter. I thought the Dyna set-up sounded better than the discreet Quad offerings (SQ) that were available back then.

Sounds better than the modern offerings as well, IMHO...

Dave

[DizRotus]

Neil, that is SO cool! Wish that chinch were still around. I'd love to run a test using Klipsch or equivalent playing a recording made the way I make them starting with the trombone case being opened, etc, exactly as you did with the real thing and from the same perspective to see if he could be fooled.

Real life "BS" detector. Gotta love it!

The "Mallette's Cat" test isn't as well known as Schrödinger's cat, but more applicable to our hobby and I have found it to be unerringly valid.

Dave

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Dave-

That would have been great to test your system against the expert ears of Max, the chinchilla. I strongly suspect he would have been fooled by the recording of the case opening. I'm less certain about the recorded trombone. We'll never know.

I expect to get one of the QD-1s now on eBay. Watch this thread for the results.

EDIT @ 13:17 EDT

I "won" a QD-1 on eBay for $48, including shipping.

[Mallette]

I expect to get one of the QD-1s now on eBay. Watch this thread for the results

Looking forward to what your ears say about this. Remember that the simpler the recording the better it seems to work and my own experience is that analog works better than digital. Actually, I am going to try my own mixer/processor free digital recordings to this soon to see if the issue is not so much digital vs analog as transcoding/processing vs recording methodolgy. Should be interesting...

Dave

[Marvel]

Looking at the schematic, the QD-1 has less than $20 in parts. If you were always going to have it fully engaged, it would be super easy to build one.

Bruce

[Mallette]

Bruce, Mark says the volume control isn't easy to come by these days. He didn't mention the momentary contact when held up, all four speakers when centered, and front only when down switch. However, I suppose one could use a three position switch without the momentary contact feature for that, or some other method to achieve the same functions.

Frankly, I am surprised it's even 20 bucks worth of stuff.

I think the kits were perhaps 10 bucks back in the day. I paid 5.00 for mine already built from somewhere. As mentioned earlier, probably the best deal I ever got on a piece of audio gear. Doing the job for nearly 40 years now.

Dave

[Marvel]

Hmmm, I overlooked (hard to do with so few parts) the 3 gang 25 ohm pot. I suppose there is a way around that. Let's see, I could swap in less efficient speakers for the rears to adjust the levels. Maybe put in my 4311s since they aren't very efficient (89db). [:|]

Bruce

[DizRotus]

A QD-1 just sold on eBay for $15.51 with shipping. My sniped bid got outbid. Since I already "won" one my max bid was $15,67, not enough to meet the bid increment, thankfully. I don't need two of them.

[Mallette]

A QD-1 just sold on eBay for $15.51 with shipping.

Coolies. I may put out a watch for them and pick up another, just because. Mine is missing the lever plastic handle. No biggie, but what the heck.

Dave

[WMcD]

Gil, you're a tough guy to disagree with, but I do. I bought a QD-2 and you may be right. It's been a long time, but I recall it didn't work as well as my QD-1. Perhaps you could look at the circuit and see if it is different.

The QD-1 doesn't require identical speakers, just ones that tonally match. I am using Frazier Monte Carlos for rears with Klipschorns. No center, as the QD-1 doesn't support one. It is working beautifully. On most material I am not looking for nor is "discrete" sound from the rear even disirable. As I've said, if I hear them on a symphony or big band recording, I turn them down a bit. All I want is the rear reflections producing the depth that simply isn't there if that information is forced to the front.

The Hafler system isn't what I want for real 3D sound. I want discrete. I've written this up over the past week or so and its on my blog here. However, it's great for older sources. It may be my imagination as I can't really think of a technical reason why this would be so, but it seems to work better with analog than with digital sources.

Dave

Gee, Dave. I'm a little concerned that you think we are in disagreement. I don't think so.

The Dynaco system didn't work for me but it was only a couple of experiments.

WMcD

[Mallette]

Gee, Dave. I'm a little concerned that you think we are in disagreement. I don't think so.

Probably not. Ever get down to Texas anymore?

Got to thinking and I am pretty sure most audiophiles don't have much patience with anything that changes the status quo and requires a bit of a learning curve. Not talking about you in particular, Gil, just us in general. My first DBX 117 back in the 70s was one such. I was sold by the reviews at the time and being a radio guy at the time was aware of the compression of LPs and tape. I was sorely disappointed at first as I heard either "pumping" or not much, but it wasn't easy to get your money back then so I stayed with it. After a few months I realized I was able to turn that dial virtulally unerringly to the correct setting and that it was only fractions of a turn that made large and audible differences to me. Finally I got to where I could set it for most records before the needle went down.

My first exposure to Dolby B on the original Advent cassette deck the year it came out caused me to poopoo and shun that format for a decade. I was totally convinced it was just filtering the high end. I didn't realize how dependent my audio engineer ears were to determining the qualities of a recording and tape by the color and quantity of the hiss.

Similar experience with the DynaQuad.

There's a lot of inertia with audiophiles.

Dave

[Mallette]

A QD-1 just sold on eBay for $15.51 with shipping.

Coolies. I may put out a watch for them and pick up another, just because. Mine is missing the lever plastic handle. No biggie, but what the heck.

Dave

Okies, so I come into work this morning. Ron (LoneLobo) comes into my office and we discuss the days work and such. He's about to leave and says "By the way, picked up a QD-1 yesterday for 15 bucks." I said "No you didn't." He looked at me funny and I said "It was 15.51 with shipping."

Now you know...nobody is as cheap as Lonelobo, not nobody, nohow.

Dave

[DizRotus]

Dave-

Tell Ron I'm glad he beat my sniped bid on that item. I really don't need 2 of them, but at that price range I wouldn't have minded.

[whatever55]

Or you can try the setup in the pdf that only uses an additional rear speaker and an l-pad to control the level. The only thing is to read the directions to make sure your amp has a common ground. I have used that for years on and off and does add a little something.