LonestarBlues Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 I need some help & guidance. The Moondogs arrived last this afternoon. I have put the tubes in their respectve sockets & hooked everything up. The amps are not powering up. I don't know if it is something I might have done wrong. Or if something is wrong with the amps. He sent an assembly manual but there was no operating manual sent. Thanks for the help. Regards, Mike ------------------ This message has been edited by LonestarBlues on 07-11-2002 at 02:04 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 Ummmmmm.... You really need to give more information here. As is, there is just not enough there to give a very informative response. You have the speakers hooked up right? It is generally not great to run many tube amps without any load. Make sure of ALL your connections, and then double check. Make sure you got the right tubes in the sockets with nothing inserted incorrectly. Be CAREFUL inserting the tubes. Pull by base only and gently rock them back and forth into and out of the sockets (not too severe obviously). They do NOT glow brightly if you are using the Sovtek 2A3! Make sure they really ARE NOT powered up by trying some music at low volume. You should get a HUM on both speakers when starting up which will go away in 5 seconds or so. This is normal. AGain, the 2A3 DOES NOT PUT OUT HARDLY ANY GLOW. I doubt this is it, but make sure your fuses are intact and in. Otherwise, need more info. kh ------------------ Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover Links system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonestarBlues Posted July 11, 2002 Author Share Posted July 11, 2002 I have the Cornwalls hooked up. Tubes inserted using my hands around the bottom plastc band & rocking them in. All tubes in the proper sockets.Power cords inserted & plugged in. Amps connected to my Mcintosh preamp. I do not know where the fuses are located. Is there supposed to be an operating manual included with the amps? This assembly manual is of no help. I am getting no sound at all when I try to play a cd. I pulled the CV378 tube next to the power transformer & I am looking at the bottom pins. There are 5 pins & 3 pins that are not there. Is this normal? There are 8 holes in the tube socket. Yes I am turning on the power switches on the back. One of the Sovtek 2A3 tubes has something loose in it. I can not see it. But I can hear something rattling around when I pulled it. I can move the tube from side to side & hear whatever it is moving around inside the tube. The other Sovtek tube does not have the rattling sound when I pulled & checked it. Frustrated. Regards, Mike ------------------ This message has been edited by LonestarBlues on 07-11-2002 at 03:42 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 Mike, This may be asking the obvious but..... have you flipped up the power switch on the Moondogs. It's the very slim silver looking rod on each monoblock. Plugging in the power cord does not automaticly turn on the power to the monoblocks. Forgive me if this is too basic a suggestion. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 I seriously doubt both are dead. I believe something is up that is very simple. These are factory wired units (I hope). Go check out the pic in the post I left announcing your Moondog amnps. I posted a pic of Jazman's Moondogs and you see the fuse on the right. You have to remove the bottom. Before doing anything like this, carefully remove all the tubes. I really dont think it's the fuse either unless you did something crazy. Both arent working and the chances they both went is slim. I believe you are missing something here. Something doesnt add up. kh ps- Yes, that is right concerning the Mullard Rectifier. Are the amps not ON at all or are they not playing? IF you leave the power ON, do the tubes warm up? Are you getting NOTHING from the amps as far as evidence that have any current at all? PPS- You should have used UPS Ground! heh.... Ok..sorry line. This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-11-2002 at 03:47 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 The Sovtek should not have ANYTHING rattling around in it in general. But still, this would not answer the fact that the other Moondog is not powering up either. Once again, are the amps coming on at all? Leave them on for a bit. Seems really strange both would be out like this, which is why I think something simple is up. Dont shake the tubes if you can help it! But you could gingerly hold the circumspect Sovtek up to a bright light and turn it till you see if aynthing is dislodged. kh btw, you ARE turning the power off when doing any of this, right? Just making sure. ps- It's almost 5am here and my eyes are turning inside out.... Good luck. I think it is something simple for now. I hope it is. I'll check in the morn. This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-11-2002 at 03:55 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonestarBlues Posted July 11, 2002 Author Share Posted July 11, 2002 He included a copy of the receipt. They are factory assembled 1/28/2002 There is no current rush, no sound from a source. I inserted the tubes in their respective sockets, hooked up to preamp, hooked up speaker wire and then inserted the electrical plugs in the back of the amps. Plugged in & turned the amps, preamp & cd source on. I am getting nada even if I leave the amps on for a while. Not shaking the tubes, moving them gently from side to side. Yes I am powering off when ever I pull the tubes or make any adjustments to speaker wire, interconnect etc. Regards, Mike ------------------ This message has been edited by LonestarBlues on 07-11-2002 at 04:00 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonestarBlues Posted July 11, 2002 Author Share Posted July 11, 2002 I am at it again trying to determine if I have done something wrong in the hookup. Or if the amps got damaged in shipping. The 3 line troubleshooting on page 20 of the assembly manual. #2 Problem: No sound-Are tubes glowing? In my case no they are not. Are Your speakers properly hooked up? I think so. I had connections that were not compatible with the connections on the back of the Moondogs. So I cut them off & have bare wire wrapped around the Cardas + & - posts of each amp with the gold screw nut tightened up firmly holding the wire. No bare wires are from + & - are contactng each other. Is this an acceptable hookup? This assembly manual is lacking in giving any instructions for proper hookup, installation of tubes etc. Thanks for any help. Regards, Mike ------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 I know, I know -- we are treating you like an imbecile. Are you sure you have the interconnects from the Moondogs going in the correct single ended outputs on the back of your preamp?f>------------------ Deanf>s> Klipsch RF7s - AE-25 DJH - AE-3 DJH - Sony 9000ES f>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-11-2002 at 08:58 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 This can't be about speaker wire or connectors or interconnects. THE TUBES AREN'T GETTING HOT. That means NO POWER. Has to be a switch or a fuse, right? This should be very easy to trouble-shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 Are your AC outlet's working? Can you plug a light or boom box into the outlet's and you have power? When my Wright's were delivered they worked for 24 hours. Came home from work and the right channel was dead. I had a bad RCA 2A3 tube. Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonestarBlues Posted July 11, 2002 Author Share Posted July 11, 2002 Yes the preamp to amp connection is correct. Do I need to unplug, disconnect, pull the tubes, pull the bottom plate & check the fuses to see if they are bad. This is my first tube amp & this is a very discouraging introduction to the world of tubes. Thanks for the help. Regards, Mike ------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 In many ways, this is the HARDEST to troubleshoot as Lonestar is a first time tube owner and had done little reading on it. He could be missing the simplest thing with this setup. If you have MONOBLOCKS and neither of them work, the chance of it being TWO FUSES out is less. Fuses rarely get damaged in transit and to have this happen to both amps is circumspect. That is what made me believe it is something being done in setup. Still, the fuse was suggested in the first answer. Two switches going bad? I doubt it. The fact that neither amp is working is what makes me wonder. kh ps- Mike, you dont need to lump tube amps together with this... I keep waiting for you to type Mike the Unhappy Camper. Tube amps are some of the simplest devices there are and usually far more trouble free depsite the tube aspect. You just need to be involved a bit more in the process - more like playing vinyl over a CD. I told you how to find the fuse in the post above. See the picture I posted in the first thread about this amp. The fuse it to right. These amps are VERY VERY simple. I am at a loss to exactly what is up here as it does not make sense. This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-11-2002 at 10:16 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 An old girlfriend of mine decided she loved my tube system and wanted new (as opposed to vintage) so we found an inexpensive Jolida 302B amp on Audiogon. She had no tube experience and she learned to change tubes, check the bias, adjust the bias, use a voltmeter, and she even made some TAPE OUTS after talking to the Jolida factory tech and learning to use a soldering iron. She learned a lot of it via the internet doing research (as well as talking to me...but she wanted to prove she could do it on her own). She loves her amp and feels closer to it and her music at the same time. IF SHE CAN do this, I am pretty sure even the most uninvolved audio compatriot can do the same since she had ZERO experience in this area. But this does bring up a point that some people just arent the type that like the tube amp experience. IT involves a bit more interaction than turn-key solid state. But the Moondogs do not require bias adjustment and are almost THE MOST simple amps I have seen with practically fewer parts than a modern toaster. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-11-2002 at 10:31 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonestarBlues Posted July 11, 2002 Author Share Posted July 11, 2002 What is the posibility of bad or damaged tube tubes in shipping. I was not very impressed with the factory packing. The tubes were packed in their boxes inside a larger white box with a little amount of very thin bubble wrap. A small amount of peanuts & some wadded up paper. They could take a lesson from Mcintosh in factory shipping boxes. In my opinion the stryrofoam peanuts don't offer adequate protection inside the main large box. the very top amp had no layer of peanuts over it. It was flush with the top of large box. No way to test tubes. I am very frustrated & feeling a big pang of buyer's remorse right now. Regards, Mike ------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 This is not intended as a flame. I hate to say it, and I DO understand you unhappiness, but you tend to sound child-like in your responses here. WE know you are frustrated. Do you normally get like this when you meet an obsticle? I got a bad feeling with your response to the seller which is carrying into this. You need to be patient and think of what is happening. It is much harder for those on the board to figure this out given the strange circumstances. The fact that it is MONOBLOCKS or TWO separate amps, BOTH doing the same thing has me worried as if it is a tube gone out or something amuck, it would be FAR less likely to be the exact same problem in BOTH amps. I would hope you would not jump to conclusions about ALL Tube amps or SET tube amps or tubes in general much as you did UPS or sellers online etc. Also, dont put the packing on the Welborne Labs factory as while the boxes are the same used, you do not know if the exact circumstances were carried out. These were not shipped from the factory. Mike, you really need some patience here and to sit down with some head scratching. I am at a loss as to why BOTH amps would be exhibiting the same symptoms unless several tubes went out. Check the fuse in at least ONE amp to see. Please try to refrain from the "I am unhappy now" or "I was ripped off" or "tube amps are bad" approaches and see if you can logically find out what is up before dragging down a host of other parties in this misfortune or oversite. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-11-2002 at 11:04 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 Mike, The odds of all tubes going bad are slim. Do you have a volt meter? I don't have a drawing of the moondogs, but you should be able to get some voltage readings. Use the meter to check you fuses. I've only had my tube amps for alittle more than a week and I know I would have been very frustrated if they were both DOA. Leave them alone for awhile. Go drink a latte. Just remember when you do get them working they are going to sound Great. Good luck. Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 Mike, I know how frustrated you must be. I am also at a loss as to what might be wrong with the amps. Everyone has made about every suggestion I can think of. I didn't see your answer to dbflash's question about the A/C outlets, if you plug a lamp or radio into it does it work? The outlet isn't wired to a wall switch that needs to be turned on? My Moondogs didn't come with an owner's manual, just the assembly manual. Keep us posted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 At this point, the first thing you should is put everything back the way it was. Put your old amp back in and at least get the system operating. It's the only way to rule out any potential problems somewhere down the line. Did you check the fuse in your PREAMP? Also, understand that whatever it is, it can be fixed, and those are some damn nice amps!!f>------------------ Deanf>s> Klipsch RF7s - AE-25 DJH - AE-3 DJH - Sony 9000ES f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 The fuse in your preamp should have nothing to do with the amps powering up. You need to isolate why neither amp is powering up. I know both must be plugged into the same outlet or into a power device. As Ed said, make sure it is hot. For some reason, I still think it is something VERY simple and an oversite somewhere, instead of both amps being faulty. Still, you never know. Have you talked to the seller (nicely) about your findings? Dont accuse him of anything yet but see if he might have had this before or if he knows something about this. kh ps- If anyone wants to see the circuit/schematic with various shots of the amp, please go here - it's an old page I did when I was thinking of building some custom amps and was selling the Moondogs. Note - The schematic is now slightly different but basically the same. There have been some PS mods and some other changes since then: http://home.earthlink.net/~ivol/moondog_2A3/ This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-11-2002 at 11:38 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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