Economy- about to really hit the fan?

[anarchist]

OK, Forrest.

I think it is time for equal billing, some of those Clinton quotes are interesting but here are some from Dubya:

"Dick Cheney and I do not want this nation to be in a recession. We want anybody who can find work to be able to find work."

"They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program."

"It's clearly a budget. It's got a lot of numbers in it."

"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."

"I'm gonna talk about the ideal world, Chris. I've read- I understand reality. If you're asking me as the president, would I understand reality, I do."

"The great thing about America is everybody should vote."

"They misunderestimated me."

"Unfairly but truthfully, our party has been tagged as being against things.. Anti-immigrant, for example..."

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HT - Klipsch Synergy Premiere

Audio - Heresy, KG4

[forresthump2]

Crash W quotes show humor and miswording and Clinton's show the new Democrats mindset. Big Government run everybody's lives. I hope at least crash sees the difference.

Clinton didn't instigate any legislation Except the record tax hike in 93 and the Family Leave Act. Both bad for the Economy and Business. All he could do was use his agencies for his anti-business/markets agenda.

Yet the Democrats want to give him credit because the Sun rose every morning in the 90s. LOL

Clinton and Morris was gridlocked into submission and he had to go along if he wanted to try to take credit for anything being done in DC. It was not by his choice though he could have been more of an obsticle if he wanted to follow the true Lefties Like MD, Cortex Clipped and STB.

Like I say, foolish radical ideas like MD will always be moot even with Democrat presidents because they have to be moderate to get in and say they got anything done. I don't see the middle in this country swinging from middle to far left like these Marxist clowns on here. Fact is the trend is the other way BECAUSE of the New Demoncrat Liberal Socialist agenda. Tee-hee-hee

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Go Forth and Hump the World

This message has been edited by forresthump2 on 08-10-2002 at 02:07 PM

[anarchist]

Forrest,

I do see the difference: Clinton is smart and morally defective and Bush is dumb and morally defective. The liberal smoked pot and the conservative snorted coke. Quite simple. I will mention I was overjoyed Bush was the President when the Afghan thing occurred. Gore, I believe, would have been completely worthless and weak in his approach.

Of course, Bush Sr. was pitiful and left these problems to begin with and his dream of a New World Order should have left everyone shaking in their boots. He also was the schmuck who invented the idea of closing down military bases which most Republicans, prone to gleaming their knowledge from sound bites, love to blame on Clinton.

Ok. I have just pointed out again how there are no 'real' differences between the Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dum parties. Both you and mdeenan have mentioned the Family Leave Act. Let's expound upon it a bit.

Children are the greatest resource a country has. To whine about the economic costs to businesses is so short-sighted it is mind-boggling. The Family Leave Act is a worthless piece of legislation that doesn't mean squat and did nothing to improve our children's early years. The United States fails parents and has one of the worst benefit packages for mothers and children on the planet.

Bottom line: Mothers and fathers should both receive up to 6 months of paid time off after the birth of a baby (I could easily be persuaded to extend this to a year.) The mother, of course, should also receive paid time off the moment she medically should not continue working be it the last month, 3 months, or duration of her pregnancy. They should be guaranteed not to lose their jobs because of this time off. The costs you cry! Just another minor cost of doing business and, if the nation weren't going the way of the Romans, a cost any great and civilized people would gladly bear.

BTW, very brief but in light of md's frequent mention of pay increases. I disagree but feel workers rights should be strengthened and once hired, a company should have to show cause to eliminate an employee. It may even be appropriate to bring criminal charges against the executives of large companies, who through gross imcompetence or negligence, cause their companies to fail or downsize. Perhaps, prior to laying off hundreds or thousands of employees, the executives of that company should be required to 'give back' the hundreds of millions they have received while running the company into the ground.

There you are. My two viewpoints, well three, since I also believe in socialized medical care, that will have some proclaim me to be a liberal flunkie.

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HT - Klipsch Synergy Premiere

Audio - Heresy, KG4

This message has been edited by crash827 on 08-10-2002 at 04:05 PM

[forresthump2]

Crash test dummy, W is not either of the 2. I see you're just as brainwashed by the press as any other average IQ joe. Its all image for the peasants. Have you ever met the man? LOL

Most of what you quoted are out of context humor by W. Nice to have a sense of humor in there. Of course folksy humor is above some dummies. LOL

Not the case with Slick. That's exactly how he and the other New Libs like Sore and Tom and Dick feel and think about GOV.

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Go Forth and Hump the World

[anarchist]

Humper,

I don't need to meet the man. I have listened to him speak repeatedly. The media doesn't write his speaking parts so I don't understand how I would be brainwashed by them. Of course, I do understand it is so easy to throw out the brainwashing by the media whenever you can't make a salient point or rebuttal.

The guy was not trying to be humorous. He just doesn't talk well. Did you watch the debates? Did you listen to his speeches? Do you listen when he speaks? My kids do better and one of them was in the third grade at the time. Given your writing abilities, I can see where you might think he is a genius. LOL, MUHAHA. At least he is not his father.

mdeenan, I understand your points very well - saying pay raise is easier than "tie workers income increases to productivity gains experienced by the US so they rise proportionately." Also understand you don't have a very high opinion of the FLA either.

And again back to Forrest, you speak of the middle ground but take the ludicrous position of being some staunch Republican doing battle with Democrats. While some of your posts have made the occasional good point, for the most part, you are stuck playing a very familiar, and sad, role. I repeat: what is the difference between a dumbass Republican and a dumbass Democrat? Nothing...if you are looking for solutions.

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HT - Klipsch Synergy Premiere

Audio - Heresy, KG4

[BLOOMIS914]

Crash- You hit the nail right on the head with your own anticipation of "liberal flunkie" comments....

FMLA- 6 months paid and you want to increase it??!!!! What the hell!! I'm sending my wife back to work and then getting her pregnant once a year from now on until I shoot blanks. Adopt that plan and every inner-city, under-privleged mother will be going to work for the FMLA benefits and I guarnatee the average family size and birth rate will increase.

Once again, your good intentions in theory, will go further to cripple our businesses and economy and do more to increase females getting pregnant at work. The under privileged will use this like the welfare system. Reward single mothers to have more kids....great idea. ARE YOU SERIOUS!

Very simple: Incentives matter. You are rewarding (by paying for six months off) females/males to have more kids. Not that more kids are bad, I believe in big families but you want someone else (business, taxpayers, fellow employees) to foot the bill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Employee at will is the only thing left holding our economy together, without it Unions and lawsuits will be rampant. Collective bargaining, get ready, you can't fire me without just cause........How about this for just cause....your lazy!

The common theme here continues to be redistribute wealth until there is no poor, there is no rich and we are all economically equal and reliant on the government for our well-being.

Some government is good and required for roads, defense, basic laws but you guys want to hand over the keys to your life or at least try and hand over mine.

Must we go on??

Let's call a truce and agree that we're all hopelessly doomed to disagree here and go back to big amps, big speakers and big (insert your favorite word here).

This thread must be stopped!!!

Scary Larry- Like an arsonist, I hold you personally responsible for starting this blazing thread. You are the equivalent of a person inciting a riot. May you feel like the coward you are.

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[T2K]

Crash pontificated:

"Children are the greatest resource a country has. To whine about the economic costs to businesses is so short-sighted it is mind-boggling. The Family Leave Act is a worthless piece of legislation that doesn't mean squat and did nothing to improve our children's early years. The United States fails parents and has one of the worst benefit packages for mothers and children on the planet.

Bottom line: Mothers and fathers should both receive up to 6 months of paid time off after the birth of a baby (I could easily be persuaded to extend this to a year.) The mother, of course, should also receive paid time off the moment she medically should not continue working be it the last month, 3 months, or duration of her pregnancy. They should be guaranteed not to lose their jobs because of this time off. The costs you cry! Just another minor cost of doing business and, if the nation weren't going the way of the Romans, a cost any great and civilized people would gladly bear."

I'm not willing to bear the costs of others childcare Crash. Children being the great resource that you say they are, why don't parents sacrifice some of the luxuries that seem to be so necessary to them and have mothers stay home and raise THEIR babies rather than send them off to child care at the age of 6 months? It is fact that children that are reared by their mothers the first years of their lives do better in school than those children that are dumped at the local child care center for others to raise. Are parents so short-sighted as regards this country's greatest resource? It doesn't take a village to raise a child, just GOOD parents. Parents fail children.

Keith

[T2K]

Bloom, you're scarier than Larry. A valuable lesson your way comes.

mdeneen, wonder if any of these young brilliant minds have a clue as to how what you have been trying to say ties-in with the education problem the country faces today (ie,working parents-unsupervised children).

BTW, I have 7 kids. Can't wait to get my check.

Keith

[anarchist]

My O' my,

Let's do this in order. Bloomis:

Sound the alarms. Non-working mothers are already rewarded for bearing children. Obviously, the laws must be written so that there is some measure of work vs. reward. You must pay into the system in order to derive a benefit. Your go to work just to collect benefits is a farce; those "inner-city, under-priveleged" mothers need not go to work to have welfare pay them now. (Warning: You are about to have C&S stick a boot up your *** for this anti-minority stance) Take a look at the birth rates in other countries that have a decent FMLA. Your alarmist rantings are disproved very quickly.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out lazy, non-working, nonproductive employees have provided cause. Your whole argument is, again, alarmist and baseless. Furthermore, my theme is no such thing. There will always be classes, there will always be the poor, there will always be a middle class, and there will be the rich. I don't advocate eliminating this nor do I believe in artificial measures to redistribute wealth. If you have read earlier posts, you will see I advocate a minimalist approach to government. Enough said.

Keith,

You already pay for those children. I agree wholeheartedly with mothers should stay at home with their children instead of sending them off to day care. That is the entire point of a FMLA. My wife, without receiving said benefits, has remained home since shortly before the birth of my 3 year old. We sacrifice so that my child has a nurturing environment because I insist it be so. I don't ask anyone for anything BUT not everyone can financially afford to do the same.

In my opinion the government has its hand in too many things it has no business nor constitution right to be in. I advocate massive changes to the system to eliminate most government functions in existence today while providing services and regulations which are fundamental to the health and welfare of the nation. We don't need full-time politicians inventing new purposes for themselves.

I also see no need for an IRS and the hundreds of various taxes imposed on us. A flat tax or national sales tax would provide plenty of money for the services government should be involved in and no, it need not be some ridiculous amount and yes it should be the ONLY tax imposed on us. Screw the gasoline tax, state income tax, state sales tax, personal property tax, liquor tax, cigarette tax, luxury tax, gift tax, ad nauseum.

So much for my being a liberal flunkie.

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HT - Klipsch Synergy Premiere

Audio - Heresy, KG4

[forresthump2]

Crash test Dummy you ignorant ****. The good points i made were facts that Ultimately led to MD defeat and I noticed you simply regurgitated them while playing his idealogy and spin game.

You haven't seen W in person so I take it you saw him on the media. What you talk about is image and it shows a low IQ to place so much on that instead of substance. Saying he is morally corrupt makes you an absolute dumb *** media groupie. Where the hell do you get that? Like the Libbies believe Just because he was a businessman. I think that's a plus not that he a facist mobster like the Libbies believe. You were just brown nosing MD but now you have no more credibility turncoat. hee-hee

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Go Forth and Hump the World

[fini]

Forrest- Seems you know Bush personally. Hey, you must be his caddie! Wow, he's got more of a handicap than I thought...

fini

[anarchist]

forrest,

you are a silly little troglodyte apparently drawn to Bush because his inability to speak English is only matched by your inability to write it.

Bush's college transcripts, speeches, and admission of drug and alcohol abuse all serve to make my case. The media didn't create that 'image', they were the vehicle which delivered it. Are you paid by the Bush administration to sit here and defend a politician or do you do so because you are infatuated with the man?

I haven't regurgitated anything because little of what you say bears repeating. I agree with mdeenan on certain points and we disagree on others. If you were capable of taking off those blinders and possessed the ability to do some critical thinking, you would understand that. In any case, continue with your MUHAHA schtick and conservative dogma. It is so refreshing and original - it must be hard work to remain so daft.

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HT - Klipsch Synergy Premiere

Audio - Heresy, KG4

[forresthump2]

CTD you ignorant ****, you obvious a fool that only pay attention to yourself. Any other fool can go back and see that it was Me and Cybergeek that Provided the Fact, logic, and My chart that made Denteen fly off the handle and throw in the towel. You can go back and see where you repeat what we say on Inflation that is the real Coup de Gras to MD Marxist ideas. You one predudiced clown but the proof is in the pudding. hee-hee

The reason you can't look up Slick Willy's college records is he had his FBI seal them for 50 years and the Liberal media of course won't press for them. So you don't have the Info to make your expert character opinion in the first place. But I always have said the guy was a political genius, But a failure in being at a statesman, administrator and leader.

But what you said about W makes you a fool and brown noser to the Libbies. You only get this opinion using the same prejudicial irrational thought you so dislpay here against me. But you can see through MDs Commie plans as any average American with common sense can do so at least you not a moron. hee-hee

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Go Forth and Hump the World

This message has been edited by forresthump2 on 08-11-2002 at 12:43 PM

[Clipped and Shorn]

Its an occupational hazard! Pornohump ususally has his head buried in Bush and can barely breathe, its his job. Then again, someone has to do it. What a Rush. HeeHeeLoLoLoLoLMuhahaha

-See and Believe

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Cornwalls

currently upgrading

to all tube components

This message has been edited by Clipped and Shorn on 08-11-2002 at 12:55 PM

[forresthump2]

You should know Cortex Clipped. After Slick Willy he now is getting out the kneepads for Al Sore. Don't want to get those knees scuffed up like Monica. Liberals like him are nothing but male whores on their knees and hoping for some breadcrumbs to get tossed back from the Libbies in GOV in a few years. hee-hee

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Go Forth and Hump the World

This message has been edited by forresthump2 on 08-11-2002 at 01:21 PM

[forresthump2]

See Denteen first attacks the chart format and not the content. Any nimrod can see that its from the NBLS and shows that Real Income has been rising excluding the Carter years of high inflation. We have proved that your chart uses High Inflation and not decreasing wages

to spin it your way. The problem in your chart only shows high inflation, like your ideas would cause more of, and not wages going down. Wages go up but Inflation went up more during and because of the Carter years. This blows a hole in your whole argument so you spin, spin, spin. Its so obvious common sense of economics even CTD has to repeat it.

REAL INCOME IS RISING AND ALL MD's GOV CONTROL IDEAS DO IS CAUSE PRICES TO GO UP AND OUT OF CONTROL ON EVERYTHING FOR EVERYBODY.

MD can't prove this wrong with facts and reason so he just spin, spin, spin. More irrelevant crap, attack the other on intelligence, and spin,spin,spin. You are

are true lefty liberal by how you think and operate Denteen. You keep hoping everybody can forget your failings so you can start a new tirade. But Any fool can see it and anybody with sense like even CTD can make you look like a chump with no life. Just the Facts Jack. hee-hee

MD measures his debating success by how long he can sit on his can and not work but argue and how many words of fluffy crap he can spew out. I can offer a few sentences of common sense and fact that shoot down his whole page of fluffy BS. But I have a life and have to work and play. Ever wonder why the Liberals like a Used Car Salesman have to talk so much and spew BS and puff the fluff? Well just read MD and you got it. If anybody wants the facts all they have to do is go back and read. It all there. MD will be going on this for the rest of the year. Others have to work instead of looking for GOV handouts. hee-hee

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Go Forth and Hump the World

This message has been edited by forresthump2 on 08-11-2002 at 02:13 PM

[anarchist]

mdeenan,

That is funny. Interesting Forrest claims to be a porn star and his heros' commercials are all about penis improvement products.

C&S,

That was funny too. Even though we tend to disagree, I love your wit from time to time.

forrest,

You just sank your own boat. The mention and/or subsequent discussion on inflation occurred over a half-dozen posts and several pages between lne, Bloomis, mdeenan, and myself. It was only a while AFTER I provided a definition did you jump into the fray and utter the word. How could you be taken seriously when you make claims that are so easily disproven.

You initiated a thought? You are a parrot prone to repeating sound bites. If you are involved in the porn industry, I guess you have an excuse - rarely is one capable of more meaningful dialog beyond poorly timed grunts and groans.

At least you want smaller government; even if you don't know what that means. Now quit the kindergarden name calling and I will refrain from mentioning your deplorable writing skills.

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HT - Klipsch Synergy Premiere

Audio - Heresy, KG4

[forresthump2]

CTD, I broke down the Inflation into facts and application, which is what you do to make a good argument. Who broke it into cost push and demand pull and explained it. You nimrods were losing the argument by playing along with Denteen's spin game you could go forever with that crap.

Just go back and read that from me and Cybergeek. Its all there. How you win with specifics and MD tries to divert attention. You can thank me a year from now when you two chumps are still debating metaphysics. Me I have to work for a living so I just get to the facts.

Maybe I'll come back near the elections. You have to fight these Libbies on there own turf. And now that people on the right are doing it on these economics issues the Libbies are shaking in their boots. They've been outed and have no place left to hide. MUHAHAHA

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Go Forth and Hump the World

[cybergeek]

Forrest, Obviously these "intellectual elite" slackers only want to philosophize with their idealogies forever. They don't appreciate real world examples and getting right to the heart of the matter. Liberals live in Camelot and LaLa Land. They don't have time for truth or reason.

"Boston was one of the first cities to pass a so-called "living wage" law. Now city contractors must pay

employees $10.54 an hour - over twice the federal minimum wage of $5.15. Well, as a result of this

living wage law, low-income families in Boston could suffer a living hell.

This is how feel-good theory meets reality. One of the city's largest day-care providers, Action for

Boston Community Development or ABCD, is in trouble. They estimate that paying their employees

the living wage would add a half-million dollars to their payroll. They can't afford it. So they'll have to

cut staff. As a result, low-income parents - many former welfare recipients - face losing their child-care

services.

Robert Coard, the CEO of ABCD, says: "These parents are working people. They will not be able to

keep their jobs without this child care." Both childcare providers and living-wage advocates agree, of

course, that the solution is to force taxpayers to pick up the tab. But surprisingly, that doesn't look

likely.

Boston political officials say they can't afford it. They also admit that the law was passed without fully

studying the economic impact. Who needs a stupid study? I predicted that dire economic

consequences would result from this misguided "living wage" idea. It's axiomatic! Now, those who can

least afford it face a living hell, not a living wage - all thanks to a bunch of well-intentioned liberals."

MD will say this is only one city or a skewed example, or its not in CA LOL, but citizens these days know better. The Liberal lies of a free lunch for everyone are now recognized for the big lies they are.

The Liberal agenda relies on the "intellectual prowess" of their opinion leaders together with the stupidity of "their" masses. MD displays this concept brilliantly.

As well Crash demonstrates how the liberal dominated media controls his judgement of intelligence and charactor.

But how can we expect more on an Audio bbs dominated by blue collar mentality? Hopefully Klipsch isn't forced to go union some day and raise our prices by 30%.

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live long & prosper

[lne937s]

I've stayed away for a while, but a few pages, but I have a few points to make.

Although Clinton passed the largest tax increase, who proposed the largest tax increase of all time?

It was Reagan. It didn't pass through the Democratic legislature.

However, I think we may need to increase taxes if our economy recovers- like Ronnie's proposal at the time. I walk by the debt counter every day- $60K+ per person. What ever happened to "fiscal responsibility"? if we don't start widdling down that debt while the boomers are still working, the workforce numbers combined with the strain of the largest elderly population ever will make it impossible for another 20 years.

I do think we need some kind of population policy. It is a tremendous factor in economic development. Countries that have the highest standards of living (western Europe) tend to have lower birth rates than those with low standards of living (3rd world) I also implore all of you to look beyond Webster's dictionary and connotative definitions for an understanding of the terms you use. Fascism, for example, is, in theory, government structure derived from industrial corporate structure. Yes, it has very few people in power at the top, a strict chain of command, heirarchy, division of labor, etc.- just like corporations. It was designed to be the most efficient form of government- it made the trains run on time. Neo-fascism, from one perspective, would use more of the "new" corporate structure tactics. Puts the "run government like a business" statements in a new light.

Also, according to research, compensation is not directly related to job satisfaction or motivation. "Compensation fairness" and the ability to provide for yourself are more analogous. Feelings of accomplishment, identifying with the company, emotional involvment, feelings of efficacy, etc. are more effective in creating employee satisfaction and motivation. (for more look at Barker, Thompkins, Cheney or any good Org Com or I/O Psychology Journal) Why else would many young union factory workers still complain about their jobs even when they significantly make more than many of their white-collar peers. Compensation does have an effect on job and career choice, the motivation to educate yourself, and the economy as a whole.

Larry