It's better to be an audio scientist rather than a technocrat

[Chris A]

This was posted by myself on another forum today and was subsequently deleted from that forum without comment. Apparently discussion of its moderator policies or behavior is too much to handle there. Note also that that unnamed forum is much different than this forum in terms membership makeup and focus. I posted this here only as a "caveat emptor" to those that might want to post there. While the technical discussions there can be outstanding, the behavior of some of the "local experts" there can be atrocious at times, and some very unfriendly postings that would be locked on this forum can sometimes be defended by moderators of that other unnamed forum.

Enjoy!

Communicating and motivating effectively to encourage enjoyment and curiosity by readers (and in the broader category of science and engineering in general) is both a gift and a discipline. However in practice I've found significant differences between the two practicing groups of scientists vs. engineers. I've found that engineers (a very large group within which I find myself practicing) tend to be less inclined to "suffer fools gladly" and to regard technical viewpoints different than their own as potentially valid.

Typically, I've found that engineers viewpoints are developed over time usually by taking effort to integrate their beliefs into a useful body of knowledge for business application...but sometimes in related technical disciplines simultaneously clinging to memeplexes (especially hi-fi memeplexes). But I also find that the best science educators that I've worked with seem to be better at developing alternative models/theories, trading them off for the situation of interest, and communicating effectively--including energizing their readers/listeners to learn more. This is an important distinction, IMHO.

In hi-fi audio circles, the ability to integrate and communicate all relevant science, engineering, and business disciplines simultaneously to achieve "good, affordable, effective, and fun" hi-fi sound is actually far more difficult than it looks. In terms of effectively communicating this knowledge, skills, and abilities, it also takes effort and a willingness to invest in their readers' understanding of the world and the state of the art. This is where I typically find a lack of attention to detail in communication by one of these two groups. Perhaps this is due to a lack of understanding of the way that others view technical topics, perhaps a lack of empathy in trying to understand them.

By way of example, I'll take a couple of real life examples that haunt these threads: Nelson Pass and Tom Danley. Both of these individuals clearly are interested in their reader's understanding and interest in do it yourself projects, and I believe that it shows. The payoff is eventually great indeed, but the investment is also high.

Now I'll turn my attention to the unnamed technocrat "lurker" population that pounce on threads like tigers and then push their own agendas to achieve their own goals, regardless of the effect that this approach has on their follow thread posters or readers. The results of this type of investment is also noted.

This forum has both types of individuals, but unfortunately I find larger numbers of the second variety. In some instances, I see extreme lengths to which some of this second group will go to achieve whatever goals that they wish with indifference to their fellow posters' personal needs.

That the resident moderating police force at times has allowed such behavior is of interest. Sometimes there has even been participation in ritualistic "neophyte sacrifices" by some moderators themselves. That moderators participate in thread discussions at all is itself a bit of a surprise when the norm is for moderators to refrain from commentary on reader comments. This is unfortunate in that the stated objective of the forum is to "learn, share knowledge, and enjoy interacting with others"...that encourages even neophytes.

However, the real objective of this blog is not to cast blame or dredge up negative feelings, but to encourage those with knowledge base in these subject areas to invest further and more deeply in their fellow readers' needs. This includes the broadening not only their knowledge of circuit design and electro-magnetics (basic subjects of the discipline of electrical engineering) but also in classical and modern acoustics, psychoacoustics (in particular for forbearance in the general level of discipline uncertainties that have not yet been subjected to exhaustive formal scientific inquiry), and to possess a healthy respect of [avoiding a] rush to judgment in terms of "show me the data" proving subjective observation, in order for these same challengers to deny that unexplored psychoacoustic effects are likely. The domain of hi-fi audio isn't a closed engineering domain - but it also includes as a critical last step subjective listener evaluations...but within reason and balance to objective measurements.

The various engineering disciplines have made their progress not only by scientific method, but also by heuristics and subjective observations borne out by repeatability of observations by others. To take an extreme position on either end of the "subjective-objective" scale is not a balanced systems approach to effective engineering - especially hi-fi.

Chris

Edited April 27, 2014 by Chris A

[oldtimer]

Sounds perfectly reasonable---maybe that was the problem.

[eth2]

Chris,

A few comments:

1. This is exceptionally well written for an engineer. Perhaps you should have become a attorney.

2. For those of us who are completely bumfuzzed by the technical aspects of audio, we wince as we press the "send" button on some other forums, hoping against hope that someone like you answers before the inevitable onslaught of the mongel horde waiting to prove to us that we should be banished to the land of the hopelessly ignorant.

3. I cannot imagine why your post was deleted.

[Boxx]

Perhaps you should have become a attorney.

[wvu80]

So, I'm not trying to be a smart alec, but I am new here on this board, and I don't always understand some things. Am I correct that you are "Chris" and that the quoted passage is your writings?

I'll assume for the sake of argument, that you did write that passage. It looked like an intelligent, well written comment on something you know something about, and except for veiled criticism against someone(s), about whom, I have no idea what you're talking about.

I certainly don't see what crime you committed that the post deserved to be taken down. I also realize that post is quoted out of context, so maybe I don't have the right to come to that conclusion, as I don't see the other side. There also may be some history I don't quite get that caused the mods to react so strongly.

Were there other posts connected with the above quote, which was also removed? I have seen mods remove posts from BOTH sides of some tension causing posts.

As it stands, and I hope I'm not offending anybody, but I really don't see what the big deal is with the quoted post.

[eth2]

Perhaps you should have become a attorney.

Cornell Law

Oh, never mind.

Edited April 27, 2014 by eth2

[wvu80]

Chris,

A few comments:

1. This is exceptionally well written for an engineer. Perhaps you should have become a attorney.

There's no reason to insult the man.

[oldtimer]

I think all right thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired.

I'm certainly not! And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am.

[Chris A]

So, I'm not trying to be a smart alec, but I am new here on this board, and I don't always understand some things. Am I correct that you are "Chris" and that the quoted passage is your writings?

I'll assume for the sake of argument, that you did write that passage. It looked like an intelligent, well written comment on something you know something about, and except for veiled criticism against someone(s), about whom, I have no idea what you're talking about.

I certainly don't see what crime you committed that the post deserved to be taken down. I also realize that post is quoted out of context, so maybe I don't have the right to come to that conclusion, as I don't see the other side. There also may be some history I don't quite get that caused the mods to react so strongly.

Were there other posts connected with the above quote, which was also removed? I have seen mods remove posts from BOTH sides of some tension causing posts.

This was my first attempt in a standalone topic of my own choice: a "blog category" on that forum attached to my profile there. Blogs are visible across the forum community via a top-level menu item.

There is history that I wish I could say here, and although you might be surprised how mild it is, I do not wish to create a situation for the good moderation here that allows for more openness of opinions without "ritualistic group sacrifice" occurring.

If you would like to know more, shoot me an email and I'll amplify on those areas of interest.

Eth: thanks for the compliment. I took it in the spirit given. Just by way of coincidence, I was once encouraged by a prior employer to go to law school on their nickel to become a patent attorney but I declined, wanting instead to be a good engineer--like my own father.

I write on this subject because it seems to be a recurring theme not limited to the subject domain identified above.

Intolerance and indifference to others' needs seems to be more prevalent than I remember when I was young. Perhaps this was due to living in isolation from the "real world".

Chris

Edited April 27, 2014 by Chris A

[eth2]

Eth: thanks for the compliment. I took it in the spirit given. Just by way of coincidence, I was once encouraged by a prior employer to go to law school (on their nickel) to become a patent attorney but I declined, wanting instead to be a good engineer (like my own father).

Chris,

Some of my best friends are patent attorneys. Of course I can never understand what the heck they are talking about.

[Chris A]

I think all right thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired.

I'm certainly not! And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am.

...

Edited April 27, 2014 by Chris A

[oldtimer]

Chris, it's from Monty Python. The point is to illustrate the pretzel logic that goes on in cases like yours regarding forum moderation.

[toolz]

Chris, well written. Unfortunately in the world we live the truth of a situation is not tolerated. It has to be distorted to support a position or belief.

I agree with others here, you write very well for an engineer.

Edited April 28, 2014 by toolz

[Boxx]

I agree with others here, you write very well for an engineer.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Boxx

[mustang guy]

I wonder what they would have done if you would have just said "I wish some of you people would quit yer bitchin' and cramming your ideas down people's throats". "Engineers rock and scientists suk."

Tongue in cheek.

Yay, my 4,000th post, and it might get deleted by the moderators.

[beeker]

A good combo of both...please hold the political rhetoric towards my decision lol

[ZAKO]

The Intelligencia here will do the same thing,,Dont kid yourself..

[beeker]

Intelligencia coffee is top notch my friend!

[toolz]

Not to be misunderstood, I am an engineer also and the written word can be difficult for me.

Edited April 28, 2014 by toolz

[tube fanatic]

Pedantic individuals can be found in any discipline (the medical field being one of the worst)! It's unfortunate when such individuals are in a position of "power" (such as being a moderator).

Maynard