Mallette Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Is that Episcopal or Catholic? (They are really soooooo close...) Yep...they are both catholic. Hey Dave, how's the organ project going? She'll speak for Easter! Allelluia! Hoping to get George Ellis Mimms, who has retired back to Houston, for the inaugural. Was able to say "Told you so!" to the Vestry in that we were able to hire a FANTASTIC Rice University PhD student (fresh in, so we'll have him 3 years) who is cradle Anglo catholic and even made the Allen sound good. We gave him the Allen for which he is mightily grateful. Life is GOOD...I am so looking forward to this. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Is that the sanctuary for "the pink church?" (Good Shepard, Episcopal) Nope. My church is Trinity downtown. I know it, it's a beautiful church from the outside. I haven't been in that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) A guy did some upgrades to the church, and he put a couple of small cheapo (I think powered because I can't find an amp anywhere) pro speakers. They are two way, and they are laying on their sides. Here is what the speakers kinda look like. They are laying on their sides, so the horn is not giving very good coverage. People are complaining that they can't hear people talk. The guy replaced the old tube stuff and a set of big array speakers with this nonsense. Here is a picture of the old array speakers. The new small pro speakers are in the place these were, and not even positioned very well (down some, but not toed in. Should I check the array speakers out at my shop and perhaps paint them black and re-hang them with a new pro amp, or should I consider donating four of my Klipsch KPT-200's, and if I do, where do you think they should be placed? - what kind of tube system was installed originally - Edited January 29, 2015 by Randyh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 MG - who's the builder of the organ? Looked up the church hoping to find a builder, opus number, and spec...no deal. Looks vintage and yummy. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Is that Episcopal or Catholic? (They are really soooooo close...) Yep...they are both catholic. Hey Dave, how's the organ project going? She'll speak for Easter! Allelluia! Hoping to get George Ellis Mimms, who has retired back to Houston, for the inaugural. Was able to say "Told you so!" to the Vestry in that we were able to hire a FANTASTIC Rice University PhD student (fresh in, so we'll have him 3 years) who is cradle Anglo catholic and even made the Allen sound good. We gave him the Allen for which he is mightily grateful. Life is GOOD...I am so looking forward to this. Dave That is great! Wonderful you got a good organist. They are getting harder to find. (still trying to get some CDs of the memorial they did for Richard Morris. I couldn't attend). Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) A guy did some upgrades to the church, and he put a couple of small cheapo (I think powered because I can't find an amp anywhere) pro speakers. They are two way, and they are laying on their sides. Here is what the speakers kinda look like. They are laying on their sides, so the horn is not giving very good coverage. People are complaining that they can't hear people talk. The guy replaced the old tube stuff and a set of big array speakers with this nonsense. Here is a picture of the old array speakers. The new small pro speakers are in the place these were, and not even positioned very well (down some, but not toed in. Should I check the array speakers out at my shop and perhaps paint them black and re-hang them with a new pro amp, or should I consider donating four of my Klipsch KPT-200's, and if I do, where do you think they should be placed? -nice organ - Edited January 29, 2015 by Randyh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) Ok, give the installer a second chance to make things right. Didn't notice that they were RANE gear, which is generally pretty good. Perhaps they work working within the constraints of a very tight budget, or committee as sometimes happens with churches. I have a pair of Klipsch KP262, it's a trapezoidal Heresy sized box with K42 heavy duty woofer (NEW) and the forte II 60x 40 tractrix horn. They are voiced for VOICE - ie specifically intended for the House of Worship market. They came out of a church and belong in one. Have the correct safe flying points built in and I even have the steel ATM flyware frames you can have. $400 and you're definitely in business. These are white to blend in with ceiling and walls but could be painted any color. These are two way, so you don't have different coverage patterns for the mid and tweeter. Hanging them in a single cluster eliminates phase and delay effects caused by listeners off to the side hearing sound from two speakers at different times. There is a real science to projecting the spoken work with clarity and articulation. So they'd be like your Heresies, but even better because they were DESIGNED FOR THIS SPECIFIC PURPOSE! Reading backwards through the posts I see Bill H has already suggested this speaker in the configuration I suggest. Placing the speakers horn to horn, with the top cabinet angled so as to reach those at the rear of the room, and the bottom cabinet tilted downwards to reach those in the front, might be an ideal hang for this room. Edited January 29, 2015 by colterphoto1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) Before you go wrong again..........call the local professional sound company in your town and have them come out and make the proper recommendations. The recommendations may surprise you. It is also critical to know what the other churches in your area do for sound. This is information you will get from them as these local companies usually do a lot of churches. Your church needs to be competitive because the sound and music brings people in and makes people leave. It's money in your church's pocket. Edited January 29, 2015 by mark1101 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 This is information you will get from them as these local companies usually do a lot of churches. And most sound companies rip off local congregations because they don't know any better. It is also critical to know what the other churches in your area do for sound. This is information you will get from them as these local companies usually do a lot of churches. Your church needs to be competitive because the sound and music brings people in and makes people leave. It's money in your church's pocket. What Michael posted and has would be ideal. I am even willing to wager that what is needed is only for voice from the lectern and possibly a wireless microphone, i.e., no raucous contemporary worship music. The new install may indeed be from a local company, but it certainly wasn't correct for their needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 i.e., no raucous contemporary worship music Get a rope! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 i.e., no raucous contemporary worship music Get a rope! Dave Raucous contemporary Christian (semi-rock)............that's us.....the stuff on the radio..........and same as a lot of the Christian churches in and around Atlanta, as you probably know Bruce. Danley is big into this market. No good church in this market has a "pickup" sound system. We had Sweetwater do our church. You can tell when a professioanl is on the money or trying to get into your shorts. We have some smart AV folks in our church. Plus........we benchmark the others and know when we hear the truth about what they have. I'm lucky enough that they let me run the board. I'd put our band up against some of the best. Mostly volunteer semi-pros and excellent vocalists. Sounds just like the radio on Sunday. If the OP only needs audio for a preacher then maybe a "pickup" system will do just fine. I wan't suggesting that the recommendations were poor equipment. It's just that in a money making endevour (which is every church's responsibility since it is a business and must sustain itself), trusted professional assistance is never a bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Well, this is the place to discuss church music. I think you will like it, Bruce. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 By the way..........that set of speakers the OP had installed are actually very good. Rane is good stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Beautiful on the outside and inside... I'm a bit envious. Is that Episcopal or Catholic? (They are really soooooo close...) ... Episcopal - both my church and the pink church. A guy did some upgrades to the church, and he put a couple of small cheapo (I think powered because I can't find an amp anywhere) pro speakers. They are two way, and they are laying on their sides. Here is what the speakers kinda look like. [picture] They are laying on their sides, so the horn is not giving very good coverage. People are complaining that they can't hear people talk. The guy replaced the old tube stuff and a set of big array speakers with this nonsense. Here is a picture of the old array speakers. The new small pro speakers are in the place these were, and not even positioned very well (down some, but not toed in. [picture] Should I check the array speakers out at my shop and perhaps paint them black and re-hang them with a new pro amp, or should I consider donating four of my Klipsch KPT-200's, and if I do, where do you think they should be placed? - what kind of tube system was installed originally - I don't know. What you see is the old one. The new stuff is behind it hidden. MG - who's the builder of the organ? Looked up the church hoping to find a builder, opus number, and spec...no deal. Looks vintage and yummy. Dave It is a very nice system. I'll have to ask our organist some details. As I said earlier, what you are seeing is non-functioning. I can climb in and take a picture of the business end, and of the actual keyboard stuff if ya want. Ok, give the installer a second chance to make things right. Didn't notice that they were RANE gear, which is generally pretty good. Perhaps they work working within the constraints of a very tight budget, or committee as sometimes happens with churches. I have a pair of Klipsch KP262, it's a trapezoidal Heresy sized box with K42 heavy duty woofer (NEW) and the forte II 60x 40 tractrix horn. They are voiced for VOICE - ie specifically intended for the House of Worship market. They came out of a church and belong in one. Have the correct safe flying points built in and I even have the steel ATM flyware frames you can have. $400 and you're definitely in business. These are white to blend in with ceiling and walls but could be painted any color. These are two way, so you don't have different coverage patterns for the mid and tweeter. Hanging them in a single cluster eliminates phase and delay effects caused by listeners off to the side hearing sound from two speakers at different times. There is a real science to projecting the spoken work with clarity and articulation. So they'd be like your Heresies, but even better because they were DESIGNED FOR THIS SPECIFIC PURPOSE! Reading backwards through the posts I see Bill H has already suggested this speaker in the configuration I suggest. Placing the speakers horn to horn, with the top cabinet angled so as to reach those at the rear of the room, and the bottom cabinet tilted downwards to reach those in the front, might be an ideal hang for this room. Well they aren't Rane. I don't know what they are, but here is the clearest picture I can get with an iPhone: By the way..........that set of speakers the OP had installed are actually very good. Rane is good stuff. Sorry, not Rane. See picture above. Also, these are not powered speakers. I checked, and as opposed to a mixer and an amp, they installed a Behringer Europower PMP4000, which has a built in amp. Here are some pics of how it's connected: I'm not trilled about the way this is done. Here are the wireless mic transmitters and the digital recorder that nobody know how to use. (I do now...) The box on the bottom is for the bell tower I think. I will post another couple posts to show you the equipment they removed, and another to show more details of the church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Here are some pictures of what was removed: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Here are some better pictures of the church with some notes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 They did look like show pipes...but a LOT of them! Let me know what you find out. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 They did look like show pipes...but a LOT of them! Let me know what you find out. Dave I was told way back when I was building and grounds that the pipes were functional. A new room was built to house the new stuff, and the old (and beautiful) pipes were re-installed in front of the hidden room. It's done very well, and most folks think they are hearing these. PS: We don't do any modern type music. It's all traditional except when we have the annual Peterkin day where things are casual, and the kids sing hymns they learned at Peterkin camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) I think the speakers he put in are Behringer Eurolive B212D. There is a version of this speaker with Titanium diaphragms, but I doubt the church spent the extra cash. These are $200 speakers. You get what you pay for. I would rather have the KP-262's. I am reluctant to make any move on this until I can speak with the installer, and then speak with whomever from our church was in charge of the project. Moving these speakers to the middle, and aligning them in an array would be better. The church will want me to tell them how much better. Any ideas or clever things I can say?? Frankly, I would like to get the 262's, but I can't even do that till I talk to these folks... Edited January 30, 2015 by mustang guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 The goal is as PWK's ad said: You shouldn't hear them. Nothing worse than hearing a PA system. You just want it to seem like the person is speaking loud enough for all to hear. If they are wanting it to "sound better," it means they are hearing it. Your goal is not "better sounding speakers" but TRANSPARENT amplification. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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