Paducah Home Theater Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 I've been trying to read a bunch and it seems that sealed with a bunch of power is the only way to get truly accurate bass throughout the entire frequency range. I just don't know exactly what you're losing with a horn, or if this is just an old wive's tale. I have no doubt a horn can be significantly louder, just not sure how tight and attack-y it can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 The tapped horn subs like the F20 Why do you keep calling the F-20 a tapped horn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 without compromising super tight super fast chest beating kick drums I have that with my IB but I think it's more a function of my mains/amp. What are you running for mains? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 without compromising super tight super fast chest beating kick drums I have that with my IB but I think it's more a function of my mains/amp. What are you running for mains? About to be running three RF-7ii's up front and a marantz receiver. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 (edited) If the subs are sloppy, run the mains as large. They should be tight and delivered some chest slam for music. The thing I am not getting is if everyone is using autocalibration, how can there be a huge difference. You can also add an EQ device and flavor to taste to take Auddysee out of the loop. Edited April 27, 2015 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 (edited) The thing I am not getting is if everyone is using autocalibration, how can there be a hughe difference.. At least in my mind, just because audessey sets it to be flat doesnt mean there is significant overhead and definition available throughout the entire frequency range. Down low it could struggle with big peaks, up high it may not have the quick attack for kick drums, ported boxes may not have the definition on things like bass guitar, and thin and poorly damped boxes and whatnot especially ported ones may add coloration and therefore wont be accurate. Edited April 24, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 About to be running three RF-7ii's up front and a marantz receiver. Cross your mains over around 50Hz, put an external 2-300 watt amp on your fronts and you'll have plenty of kick regardless of your sub. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 (edited) At least in my mind, just because audessey sets it to be flat doesnt mean there is significant overhead and definition available throughout the entire frequency range. Down low it could struggle with big peaks, up high it may not have the quick attack for kick drums A dedicated sub with an amp of more than 300 watts should handle peaks in the bass much better that 10 or 12 in woofers powered from a speaker. Larger sub drivers are not slow in this regard, they move less and have a bigger motor structure. I don't use Auddysee but, people buy it for sub EQ and then most change the bass response? The amp/DSP should provide enough power in the upper FR. Drums don't go to high? Room Tx may be a good area to explore. Edited April 24, 2015 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 I thought you were talking about the differences between different style of subs for some reason, not subs vs. speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 The tapped horn subs like the F20 Why do you keep calling the F-20 a tapped horn? Because I don't pay attention well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 (edited) I've been trying to read a bunch and it seems that sealed with a bunch of power is the only way to get truly accurate bass throughout the entire frequency range. I just don't know exactly what you're losing with a horn, or if this is just an old wive's tale. I have no doubt a horn can be significantly louder, just not sure how tight and attack-y it can be. What about the SVS SB13-Ultra? A pair of these would be about $3,000 http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/sealed-box/SB13-Ultra They are about 18" tall. They are sealed, heavy, and all the research and development are done already. I still like the dual F20's idea. Has that been done Carl? Oh, and they are sealed folded horns. Tuned to 20Hz... edit: yes it has (here http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1329971-lilmike-s-cinema-f-20-a-26.html): Edited April 25, 2015 by mustang guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 all the research and development are done already. Where's the fun in that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 Why would they put a foam surround on it though? Ugh. That's a hard pill to swallow. It's not the foam you're thinking of. What's the difference? I recycled some subs once because the foam disintegrated on me and the cost to ship them off and have them redone was more than they were worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 What's the difference? I can't say what the chemical composition is but Ficaraudio uses surrounds that are like the surrounds in my Avalanche drivers. They pretty much took over what was left of Ascendant Audio when Chad went belly up. My drivers have been mounted with the back side in the attic for about 8 years and still look new. They're nothing like the foam that was traditionally used on older style woofers. I think everyone (except RE maybe) uses these type surrounds now and I've never heard of one rotting apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I still like the dual F20's idea. Has that been done Carl? Oh, and they are sealed folded horns. Tuned to 20Hz... There's been plenty of dual F-20 builds. I don't know if I've seen any configured like the drawing you made but I'm sure it would work great. The F-20 is tuned around 22 Hz I believe which is about 3 Hz lower than a THT. The "20" in F-20 refers to the 20 cubic feet that the box measures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I recycled some subs once because the foam disintegrated on me Was that in the last 5-10 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 (edited) I recycled some subs once because the foam disintegrated on me Was that in the last 5-10 years? I got them within 10 years ago. I knew some guys who worked at the Credence factory which is local to me, went there and got some Bostwick's before they closed down. These guys were who made Kicker, some JL Audio, Lanzar, Bostwick, SoundStream, probably others. Never even used them but when I tried last year the surrounds fell apart. Edited April 25, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I wouldn't let surround composition deter you from buying what you want. The stuff they use on the newer high x-max subs is pretty darn good now days. It's not like some of the old school materials of the past. I think that if I were you I'd cobble together a few boxes of different configuration and see what sound you really like. Short of running around to different houses and listening to different subs, I don't know how you'll figure out what you'll like. Your boxes don't have to be finished, just air tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 (edited) I think that if I were you I'd cobble together a few boxes of different configuration and see what sound you really like. Short of running around to different houses and listening to different subs, I don't know how you'll figure out what you'll like. Your boxes don't have to be finished, just air tight. Biggest thing I don't like about my subs right now is that some concussive sounds are present when they really get going, I just can't figure out if I'm stressing the subs or the box or what. I feel like I need more subs if I'm going to stick with sealed but a different design may be more appropriate. They sound good at low to medium volumes especially if only one frequency is being played, but on rumbly stuff like Interstellar at higher volumes where all kinds of stuff is going on, much of the real low stuff gets washed out with annoying and seemingly strained higher frequencies if that makes any sense. Not sure what to do about that. I think they are having to work too hard in many instances. Stuff like the giant's footsteps in Into The Woods sounds excellent though. Edited April 25, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 It makes perfect sense. Sounds like the subs are being pushed past their linear range and you're hearing distortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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