Car Dealership Hassles

[The History Kid]

Allow me to set the story:

We have a pair of Ford Taurus' between my mom and I. She has an '02 with 122K miles, and I have an '06 with 93K miles. I'll be attending the University of Iowa this Fall, and will need to commute a good 90 miles a day, so the idea was to move to a car with a little better gas mileage. The car would have to be as dependable as my Taurus is, and it'd have to be able to deal with all kinds of elements (I storm chase on the side).

The decision was made on a Ford Fusion SE. Due to the fact that I have an incredible amount of student loans, and have no one who could cosign - I am thinking of going new, as I could for sure get the financing.

Enter the problems.

A few nights ago, my mom backed into my car, scratching it up and denting her own. It's currently being serviced at the dealership. I had them check the car out mechanically to find out there's a leak in one of the break lines and a bad bearing on one side. They priced out about $700 to repair with labor. Other than that, the car is pretty much as new.

The initial thought was to have my mom get the '06 and sell/trade the '02 (since it's on its last legs). But now, I'm not really sure what to do. As it stands I couldn't afford the payment on the new car without some kind of finagling, and the only trade in would be my mom's car.

Anyone got any tips on hassling dealerships down, or hints on how long I should limp by before trying to put the sticks to some sales people?

[mustang guy]

Seems like a high cost for a bearing and a brake line. I'd find a reputable mechanic that is not at the dealership.

 

Also, I would consider that the value of the 02 and the 06 aren't probably that different.  The 02 would go first.

 

As for dependability, brand new cars can be more unreliable than cars with miles on them. I have found that cars with 20-35K miles have been broken in and the manufacturer defects have been ironed out by warranty. I would look for a BASE model in what car you want. The frills and dials and buttons you pay extra for defeat the purpose of saving mileage and of not just repairing the old car.  Just make sure you get something you like the looks of.

[Guest Steven1963]

First, ditch the Ford. Get an import. Sorry, but I just do not have any faith in domestic manufacturers.  Case in point: your wheel bearing at 93k.  Toyota, Nissan, etc.  Are just getting broke in at 93k. I know I've probably touched a nerve, but it's just the way I feel. 

 

Second, Don't buy new. Buy a couple years old - like a lease return. Let someone else eat the depreciation. You can get a certified pre-owned. Try to find a lease turn in that was owned by someone like me: doesn't drive hard, washes and waxes regularly, makes all the maintenance appointments...and low miles.  Heck I lease all my rigs and rarely have over 20k after 3 years when I turn them back in. If you go this route, pull a car fax on your own, not the one the dealer will offer.  Toyota Corolla's get 36mpg hwy and are still under $20k brand new. Find a lease return and you can be looking at around $15k. And they are one of the most dependable cars on the road. Oh, AND they are made in the U.S.

 

Not sure I can give you advice about financing.  I'm pretty sure if your credit is decent you'll get what you need even if your debt/income ratio isn't ideal.  

Edited May 1, 2015 by Steven1963

[The History Kid]

Buying used is not a good option for me because no one in their right mind would finance for me used. Buying new would guarantee me that I could get an approved loan. As for the Ford stuff, they might have parts on them not going that well, but I beat the hell out of my cars and they sail right through what I throw at them. I can't stand Toyota or Nissan for anything - I'm driving a loaner Altima right now and I HATE it.

[Thaddeus Smith]

First, ditch the Ford. Get an import. Sorry, but I just do not have any faith in domestic manufacturers.  Case in point: your wheel bearing at 93k.  Toyota, Nissan, etc.  Are just getting broke in at 93k. I know I've probably touched a nerve, but it's just the way I feel. 

 

 

http://blog.caranddriver.com/toyota-recalls-112500-cars-for-power-steering-electric-motor-failures/

 

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/toyota-recalls-803000-vehicles-in-the-us-including-2012-13-camry.html

 

http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/10/investing/toyota-recall/

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/03/06/nissan-recall-hood-latches-altima/24506397/

 

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/11/09/nissan-recalls-52000-vehicles-due-to-faulty-airbags/

 

http://time.com/3753689/nissan-airbag-recalls/

[mustang guy]

I agree with the carfax. I'm not so hip on certified pre-owned. It's almost like an extended warranty which is a waste of money. 

 

As for American made, I used to be in the camp you are in Steven. Things have changed a great deal with reliability in domestic vehicles. The exception is the interiors. Mechanically, I see little reason to not by domestic.

[mustang guy]

You can get a loan for a used car easily. Do some checking before you turn away. 

[BigStewMan]

I just traded in my 2010 BMW 528 for a 2015 Ford Flex.  I did it because i want to quit working and start the proverbial endless road trip -- the Flex has enough room for me to sleep in and to carry a guitar or two. I’m in NO WAY an expert in this area; but, here is something to think about.  I got it for $289 over invoice--tells me there that (1) the dealer lies about the invoice; (2) they’re going to make the lion’s share of their money elsewhere.  

Enter the extended warranty and service plan.

I tried to get 50% off the extended warranty; but, ended up with 25% - 30% off. So, don’t forget to negotiate EVERYTHING.

Now, there is a holiday coming up, so there will most likely be some sales and/or promotions.  With your negotiating, special offers from Ford -- you may end up with a favorable deal.  Plus, i’m guessing the 2016 models are coming soon and they may want to get rid of the 2015s on the lot.

Just remember, this is a business. I’m all for getting a deal; but, i also support a fair deal. You surely can’t expect the dealer to take a loss. 

 

 

(I storm chase on the side).

 Regardless of what kind of car deal you score -- you’re the coolest guy on the forum.  I’m a HUGE fan of extreme weather and have wanted to storm chase for years.

 

Good luck man,

Steve

[Guest Steven1963]

 

First, ditch the Ford. Get an import. Sorry, but I just do not have any faith in domestic manufacturers.  Case in point: your wheel bearing at 93k.  Toyota, Nissan, etc.  Are just getting broke in at 93k. I know I've probably touched a nerve, but it's just the way I feel. 

 

 

http://blog.caranddriver.com/toyota-recalls-112500-cars-for-power-steering-electric-motor-failures/

 

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/toyota-recalls-803000-vehicles-in-the-us-including-2012-13-camry.html

 

http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/10/investing/toyota-recall/

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/03/06/nissan-recall-hood-latches-altima/24506397/

 

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/11/09/nissan-recalls-52000-vehicles-due-to-faulty-airbags/

 

http://time.com/3753689/nissan-airbag-recalls/

 

 

I'm not going to take that bait, Michael. Suffice to say I think it was GM that killed a bunch of people before owning up to needing to recall about what, 20 million cars for a faulty ignition switch that they knew about for years?

Edited May 1, 2015 by Steven1963

[Thaddeus Smith]

 

 

First, ditch the Ford. Get an import. Sorry, but I just do not have any faith in domestic manufacturers.  Case in point: your wheel bearing at 93k.  Toyota, Nissan, etc.  Are just getting broke in at 93k. I know I've probably touched a nerve, but it's just the way I feel. 

 

 

http://blog.caranddriver.com/toyota-recalls-112500-cars-for-power-steering-electric-motor-failures/

 

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/toyota-recalls-803000-vehicles-in-the-us-including-2012-13-camry.html

 

http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/10/investing/toyota-recall/

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/03/06/nissan-recall-hood-latches-altima/24506397/

 

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/11/09/nissan-recalls-52000-vehicles-due-to-faulty-airbags/

 

http://time.com/3753689/nissan-airbag-recalls/

 

 

I'm not going to take that bait, Michael. Suffice to say I think it was GM that killed a bunch of people before owning up to needing to recall about what, 20 million cars for a faulty ignition switch that they knew about for years?

 

 

yup, you're right.. but we're talking about Ford.

[mustang guy]

From a Ford dealership in Iowa (it's even certified):

 

http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/628718455/overview/

 

Dealerships can get you loans for used cars as easily as new cars. 

 

as a comparison, here is a brand new 2015 from a dealership in Iowa:

 

http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/625800840/overview/

Edited May 1, 2015 by mustang guy

[The History Kid]

I admittedly am a little picky, the interiors of the older model Fusions, I just can't warm up to. The new body type (2013 and later) are what I'm looking for. I'll actually be driving an '07 for a while until I fix the '06 Taurus or get the other car ironed out. The '16's are already being advertised, and I'd imagine sometime between Memorial Day and Independence Day there should be some sales crop up for some of the newer ones - plus the fact that the used ones on the lot should drop in price and also drive the '15's down. Never shopped like this before, anyone disagree with that thought?

[mustang guy]

The 16's are already on the lots. The 2015 above represents that. perhaps you should shop specifically for a 2013 since you like that interior. Anything under 40,000 miles in a 2013 would be fine if it has a clean carfax and especially if sold by a Ford dealership.

[mustang guy]

There are tons of 2013 with under 40K miles in your area for less than half the price of a new 2015 let alone a 2016. Do not buy a salvage title or rebuilt title car, and look at carfax to see if it was a rental unit. Those get beat to hell.

Edited May 1, 2015 by mustang guy

[The History Kid]

I'll keep that in mind.

I would still welcome comments of how to keep numbers low though. I'm not all about "stealing" a car, but I am about trying to save the cash on a good car because I need to save cash on a good car.

For the record, the new car I was looking at was $21,500 after "incentives."

[mustang guy]

I'll keep that in mind.

I would still welcome comments of how to keep numbers low though. I'm not all about "stealing" a car, but I am about trying to save the cash on a good car because I need to save cash on a good car.

For the record, the new car I was looking at was $21,500 after "incentives."

 

The 2015 I referenced above which was $35K was a turbo that was loaded. When you brought that to my attention, I wondered why mine was so expensive  

 

The best negotiation tactic is having 3 other cars you are going to go look at before you make your decision. You would be amazed...

[The History Kid]

Yeah, I certainly don't need a turbo lol. The SE's I've been looking at would suit me fine, and honestly the lightly loaded ones are about what I'd like. Basically what I had put in my Taurus is all I really want on the new car.

[BigStewMan]

don’t plan on buying from the first dealer you talk to.

i would guess getting dealers to compete against each other for your business would serve you well.

i see nothing wrong with telling a dealer that dealership “x” quoted you this price -- will you beat it?

i ask for lower sticker price, lower warranty price, free oil changes, lower interest rate -- don’t always get what i ask for; but, you’d be surprised. 

I bought my first vehicle when i was 18.  Dad was already dead -- asked my Grandfather if he’d go with me to the dealership.  He said yes; but, i’d have to do it his way. His way was decide what i was willing to pay and if they wouldn’t make that deal i had to be willing to walk away and start looking elsewhere.

My boss loves negotiating.  He bought a new F-350 a few months ago -- got free oil changes for the life of the vehicle. (I only got a couple years worth; but, that wasn’t a deal breaker for me. Honestly, i don’t enjoy the process and just wanted to get a deal done and get out of there).

[The History Kid]

I'm like you there with wanting it just done Stew.

I've done a little research on tips and trots and such...it looks like Memorial Day might be a good D-Day. New '16's on the lot, holiday sale, end of the month quotas to meet...I'm also told that having someone come along with you and "act out" that you shouldn't get the car can be beneficial too, but I'm not sure.

My boss said to walk in and say "This is what I need, what does that cost? *answer* Well, I can do *$3000 less than you can actually do*" - and if they still say no to 1000 under, you basically say you'll take your business someplace that will work with you.

[MercedesBerater]

I'm all service based- but what I don't know about nitwit salesmen is they will do everything to hold gross.

Biggest tactic they will use is talking about monthly payment price- don't do this. I can alter months on loan, interest rates etc to get you a nice shiny number like $289 a month. Which I "forgot to tell" you is 182748 months.

Do your own numbers and focus on the bottom line that gets you that price.

Also, everything is up for negotiation- and keep in mind the salesmen will still get paid even if the car is sold $0.01 over what the dealer owns the car for. It's called a "mini" it's the dealer paying the salesmen $100-300 typically for the sale men's time spent moving that unit. If they make enough gross profit to earn more than a mini- well, that's how they get paid more.

As far as fixing the ford- ask for a breakdown of pricing, what labor time guide they're using, and get a second opinion.

Here in Illinois its illegal to fix a leaking brake line using compression fittings, you must replace the entire line as the manufacturer designed. If that means front to rear - then so be it. If it's a serviceable line that's 12" long, great. But you can't cut and splice willy-nilly.

Also, find out what parts warranty is. 12month/unlimited mileage? Sweet, if the car is generally in great shape but needs a repair here and there..... Calculate the cost to not have car payments but instead to fix this one.

Also- keep in mind. The sales department will do anything to sell you a car as long as they make some money. It is a business after all- no need to give cars away. (Do you haggle this hard over a stove, mittens, shoes, lawn mower?)

They will find a bank that works.

They will find a car that works.

Sometimes it may not be the color you want- if a car has been in inventory longer- it's an easier one to deal on. So sometimes the it's ok to let the salesmen steer you to a few choices. They know what cars they can knock price down to help get the deal and move on to the next person and hope to make some $$.