derrickdj1 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 This is a first for my system, the power conditioner/surge protector went off during a movie. I went to see if I tripped a breaker and threw them again which usually brings everything back on. It didn't and I looked at the Power conditioner and the button was off. Press the button and everything is a go! Would it be possible that the Power conditioner was ask to pass to much juice? I have had two power conditioners on the system for the last 3 or 4 years. The one that cut off has a few more heavy pieces on it like the power amp, TV, three 18 in. subs and a few small things. The power conditioners have never take a hit appear to work fine. I was running thing full tilt with the wife gone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 It sounds to me like the power conditioners just earned their money! Congrats on the meltdown! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 They may have earned their keep. I was watching the pod emerging scene from WOW. I was at reference and 8 db hot on the subs which I have never done. I thought I knew the systems limits since I have pushed things before. I am running everything off two 15 amp circuits which is fine since I never pushed things this hard. The UM 18's were breezing along. I guess I will run out of power before bottoming the drivers. I was running in the low extension mode. A question comes to mind, was one piece or the combination of gear drawing excessive voltage causing it to shut down? I nee to research this in more detail. Was a piece or the combo of gear in danger? I wish I would have had the spl meter on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Derrick, So you had it shaking so bad(good?) that the power switch physically went from on to off? Or is that switch a breaker also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 You have violated the physical laws and constants that exist in our Milky Way Galaxy. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) The power conditioner/surge protector has a push button. It can't vibrate off? My guess is that I was drawing to much on that conditioner. I have the Acurus amp, two, I Nuke 3000, I Nuke 6000, AVR and TV on that surge protector. The other has the Yaqin amp, I Nuke 3000, I Nuke 6000, cable box, cable modem, and HTPC. I have the other I Nuke 6000 and I Nuke 3000 on a 3 rd circuit. My concern is not to damage any of the gear, lol. I have heard of someone tripping a breaker but, not the surge protector. The main difference is the breaker trips to protect the houses electrical wiring and prevent fires. The surge protector/power conditioner should takes excessive voltage hits. Do I need a higher rated surge protector or 20 amp curcuits? I need one those electrician guys to chime in, lol. This is one of the reasons that I talk about power management of the system. Most on this forum don't seem overly concerned with power management on this forum. Edited July 8, 2015 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 You have your sub amps running through a power conditioner??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Yes, the subs run through the surge/power conditioner. I know some people use only a direct hookup to the outlet. I have tried it both ways and there seems to be no difference. I really pushed things yesterday with the ULF. Not to take any chances, I brought a new surge protector even though the still protected light is lit on the surge/power conditioner. I would rather have the surge protector take a hit rather than the equipments. It's impossible to tell how many hits and how large a hit is left in a surge protector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I know some people use only a direct hookup to the outlet. I have tried it both ways and there seems to be no difference. I think you've found the difference What hits are you referring to? Lightning will blow out any surge protector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) A more common cause of power surges is the operation of high-power electrical devices, such as elevators, air conditioners and refrigerators. These high-powered pieces of equipment require a lot of energy to switch on and turn off components like compressors and motors. This switching creates sudden, brief demands for power, which upset the steady voltage flow in the electrical system. While these surges are nowhere near the intensity of a lightning surge, they can be severe enough to damage components, immediately or gradually, and they occur regularly in most building's electrical systems. http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/everyday-tech/surge-protector3.htm The power amps fit this discription and a previous call to Behringer said the amps have built in protection and use with a power condition surge protector is just extra assurance for protecting the amps. I know some sub manufacturers recommend not doing this. Their use or non-use has proponents on both sides. A typical surge protector uses a component called a metal oxide varistor (MOV). When the voltage spikes, the surge protector effectively diverts that extra voltage to the MOV component. This component degrades when it’s exposed to either a small number of large surges or a larger number of smaller surges. The additional energy doesn’t damage your devices — it stays in the surge protector, where it degrades the MOV. In other words, your surge protector can only absorb so many surges before it stops functioning as a surge protector and starts functioning as a dumb power strip that’ll let everything through to your devices. Their Lifespans Are Measured in Joules Surge protectors are rated in joules, and this tells you how much protection they’re desigend to provide. For example, you might get a 1000 joule surge protector. This is a measure of a total amount of energy a surge protector can absorb before the protection wears out and it stops absorbing any extra voltage. Every power surge your surge protector absorbs decreases the amount of future joules it absorbs. if that 1000 joule surge protector takes an 1000 joule hit, it’s done for. But it’s also done for if it takes ten 100 joule hits — or if it takes a thousand one joule hits. It’s all cumulative. Surge protector lifespans aren’t measured in years — they’re measured in joules. It’s all about how many joules your surge protector has absorbed. But, the older your surge protector is, the more it’s likely degraded. http://www.howtogeek.com/212375/why-and-when-you-need-to-replace-your-surge-protector/ Edited July 8, 2015 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) Then you need a Furman like I have. 55 amps of on demand capacitance and no joules to worry about being consumed. These are not your typical "surge protectors". Edited July 8, 2015 by CECAA850 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I run 4 pro amps on mine and have never had an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Most of the MOV's I installed at work on the 480/220 VAC three phase systems would usually fry or blow up saving the electronic equipment. It is much easier to replace an MOV than a fried electronic component. Some surges on those systems can be as high as 250 KVA which really does a nice job of destruction on the MOV's. The MOV'S would usually save the replacement of 600 dollar SCR's. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Most of the MOV's I installed at work on the 480/220 VAC three phase systems would usually fry or blow up saving the electronic equipment. It is much easier to replace an MOV than a fried electronic component. Some surges on those systems can be as high as 250 KVA which really does a nice job of destruction on the MOV's. The MOV'S would usually save the replacement of 600 dollar SCR's. JJK So they're stout enough to stop a direct lightning hit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidt Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Most on this forum don't seem overly concerned with power management on this forum. I can't say I have thought about it too hard. I use surge protectors (probably past their prime) and have no knowledge of power conditioners. Considering, at the least, I should replace my surge protectors, what do I need to know about power conditioners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) I use surge protectors (probably past their prime) and have no knowledge of power conditioners. A power conditioner is not really needed since most of our gear has a similar feature. They just come with better surge protectors. The Furman that Carl recommended is a good unit. I was reading that they (surge protectors) should be changed ever 2-4 years. They may be bad and not protecting anything: acting like a giant power strip, lol. Lighting strikes are a different story with any of these protector and all bets are off. Carl, I wish I had paid more attention when some of the system shut down. I really don't know for sure what the cause was. I assumed I threw a breaker and reset them without to much thought. After that I notice that some of the gear did not come back on and found the surge protector off. This is the first problem that I have ever had with a surge protector cutting off. Power management just makes things easier on your gear, not stressing the amp/avr, handing off heavy bass duty to subs. I think it becomes more import when running a lot of power hungry gear in the HT. Edited July 8, 2015 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Most of the MOV's I installed at work on the 480/220 VAC three phase systems would usually fry or blow up saving the electronic equipment. It is much easier to replace an MOV than a fried electronic component. Some surges on those systems can be as high as 250 KVA which really does a nice job of destruction on the MOV's. The MOV'S would usually save the replacement of 600 dollar SCR's. JJK So they're stout enough to stop a direct lightning hit? Nothing can stop a direct lightning hit. About 10 years ago lightning hit a huge oak tree about 25 ft. from the house which blew off about 30 feet of the bark all around the tree, traveled about 15 ft. through the ground to the sewer pipe, traveled along the pipe to the house and melted about a 15 ft. section of aluminum siding, blew out every security system sensor on that side of the house, the phone and computer modem upstairs, fried the security alarm control box, blew out the Denon 2.1 receiver, and made me drop my donut and coffee in the kitchen. The lightning traveled through the length of the tree in a cross pattern and when entering the ground left several 1" diameter black worm trails to the sewer pipe. I did not crap my pants however. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I did not crap my pants however. JJK Your mother should be proud of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 made me drop my donut and coffee in the kitchen Now that is just terrible, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Lighting strikes are a different story with any of these protector and all bets are off. That was my point. The normal voltage swings that most residences experience have little to no effect on electronics. Having a unit with a battery back up in case of an outage or one with capacitance for demand are a couple of the only reasons that I'd have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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