Dax 616 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I have just recently moved to a house in CO and I don't have solid corners for my K horns. Thebes mentioned the 60th ann. K horn configuration. Has anybody tried to modify a "standard" bass bin in this fashion? What tweaks may be necessary in the passive crossover? It looks like Klipsch just added a piece to the rear on each side in the picture. Thanks T.C. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) I have just recently moved to a house in CO and I don't have solid corners for my K horns. Thebes mentioned the 60th ann. K horn configuration. Has anybody tried to modify a "standard" bass bin in this fashion? What tweaks may be necessary in the passive crossover? It looks like Klipsch just added a piece to the rear on each side in the picture. Thanks T.C. Would the 60th ann. have still better bass in a corner, than part way out into a room? I would think so, due to corner loading of the bass that comes out from each side of the new Khorns ... but could be wrong. Does Klipsch recommend corner placement even with these partly closed-in models? It may be a trade-off between ideal bass and the ability to aim the speakers at some other angle other than 45 degrees. As to another alternative, false corners 4 feet on each side, would 5 feet be better than 4, 6 feet rather than 5, etc.? Edited July 13, 2015 by garyrc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 All you need is a decent sheet of ply and a table saw. You put the screws in the supports for the tailboard and the side vents so there is not holes put in the bass cab. Granted it isn't going to be 100% like a properly sealed K, but I bet its 90% easy. Its a PITA to seal it off properly like the anniversary model and requires that you cut the tailboard off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) can't you just unscrew the tailboard and cut a new one? Check out Volti's website OP. For sale right now... Edited July 13, 2015 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dax 616 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Max, I assume the picture is your modified K horn? My original thoughts mirror your build. I wasn't sure about the simplicity of the concept. However, doesn't the opening of the bass horn have to be larger than where the front of the speaker and the cover meet. In other words, Correct corner placement utilizes a section of wall which is 4ft from the rear apex of the speaker. Is this a problem ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 To maintain the correct chamber size you have to cut a larger piece for the top of the bass cab, If you want to get the rear panels to fit under it. My mod was taken from another forum member which was a big help and its not 100% correct in spec, but for $50 It will transform any K that is cornerless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Max, I assume the picture is your modified K horn? My original thoughts mirror your build. I wasn't sure about the simplicity of the concept. However, doesn't the opening of the bass horn have to be larger than where the front of the speaker and the cover meet. In other words, Correct corner placement utilizes a section of wall which is 4ft from the rear apex of the speaker. Is this a problem ? There is a lot room for error when sealing a K in a corner. Some use pipe foam insulation to get a good seal or other methods. You shouldn't have anything within the sides for 4 feet to get the full extension and more than that sure wont hurt. My room is just 20 X 20 and I don't listen to much music that has a lot of very low bass, so I don't worry about the last few cycles that are missing as I have plenty of clutter around them. The pictures are deceiving as the panels are the same as a wall covering that area, the only difference is that my panels are tucked under the top cap of the bass bin and rooms walls would butt up against the top cap, so there is roughly 5/8 of an inch lost from tucking the panels. I was skeptical at first, but as soon as I fired them up I was sold. I haven't even pulled them off to paint them black since I put them on several months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dax 616 Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 Thanks for your help with this, all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 TC's, aka Dax 616 is a great audio pal of mine. You should have seen the room treatments he did in his home prior to heading to another state. What he hasn't mentioned is that these are modified khorns, with AlK slopped crossovers, modded horns and tweets. I mention this because this may, or may not, effect what he's trying to accomplish, so perhaps he will provide some details about that. I seem to recall in one post or another that the 60th's may have been modded to achieve the same results in a sealed unit, but am not sure of that. I should also point out that he is trying not to do false corners, given the parameters and layout of his room. Primary obstacles in the room are many large windows in an almost wrap around configuration that while giving some stunning mountain views makes it difficult to employ false corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) I should also point out that he is trying not to do false corners, given the parameters and layout of his room. Primary obstacles in the room are many large windows in an almost wrap around configuration that while giving some stunning mountain views makes it difficult to employ false corners. Very good point! Window sills, heat registers, plumbing and heating pipes, and doors too close to the corner, can all be big annoyances. You have to make your own judgement as to whether false corners, enclosed backs, or neither, will work best in your situation. I'm not a big fan of possible cosmetic clunkiness with false corners. The K-horn is a classic beauty when sitting properly in a corner. So, my first preference is "natural seating," moved tightly into corners using only invisible pipe foam to seal off the bass bin; my second is enclosed backs, but only if necessary to have an intact bass horn path; and (I guess) the third is false corners. Forum member Ducatista has a thread with a pic of K-horns in false corners, where you can see for yourself. Edited July 14, 2015 by LarryC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 The ability to toe them out is worth enclosing them or building false corners in itself. Even if I have good corners in the future, I wouldnt be able to enjoy the sound of them sitting at a 45 degree angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vondy Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Does inclosing the back allow you to move the toe-in outside of a 45 degree angle in the corners? I've always wanted khorns but 45 would not work in my room. The listening positions is way to far back for that. They would need to be toed out quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Does inclosing the back allow you to move the toe-in outside of a 45 degree angle in the corners? I've always wanted khorns but 45 would not work in my room. The listening positions is way to far back for that. They would need to be toed out quite a bit. They were designed to be used in corners, but I can't say what an enclosed pair pulled a few inches out of a corner and toed out would compare to a pair without backs tucked. Anyway, Im sure there are number differences, but better imaging and adjustability sure is nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vondy Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I know they were designed for corners, but the inclosed backs we're not part of the original design. Didn't know if this was done to allow a looser fit and toe-in. From some of the talk on this forum I kind of got that impression. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I know they were designed for corners, but the inclosed backs we're not part of the original design. Didn't know if this was done to allow a looser fit and toe-in. From some of the talk on this forum I kind of got that impression. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk My point was that even the "Anniversary edition" that Klipsch built with enclosed backs wont benefit from the 4 foot extension of the sides that adds the lower response unless they're tucked in the corners as well. That said, closing the backs are going to be 90% effective and maybe more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vondy Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I guess what I'm getting at is say they are still in the corners with 4 feet on each side, they are just not "tucked in" tight to the wall at 45 degrees. That may be what you're saying, I just want to be clear since I don't always type what I'm thinking very well. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I guess what I'm getting at is say they are still in the corners with 4 feet on each side, they are just not "tucked in" tight to the wall at 45 degrees. That may be what you're saying, I just want to be clear since I don't always type what I'm thinking very well. Thanks! If they are pulled out even an inch or two from the wall, then its not sealing the backs. You're missing a lot having them this way as I ran mine that way for months. I don't know if you have a table saw or know someone that does, but literally it will cost you 50 bucks for the 3/4" ply and 8 screws. Remember you don't screw it into the cabinet, only the tail board support and the side vent support, no damage done period. Your mid bass and lower bass is suffering the way you have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 My comment is that, for me, the toeing-in is not of great importance, since the K-horn's dispersion is so good that the sound doesn't change that much from side-to-side -- one of the ingenious traits of PWK's design. However, I only have hearing in one ear, so the imaging benefits and "sweet spots" that many Klipsch owners live for is lost on me. I think the sound is outstanding regardless of what part of the room one is in, and also sounds almost as great in adjacent rooms -- something that Richard Heyser noted in his classic review in Audio Magazine in 1986, just short of 30 years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vondy Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Let me try to explain better. First I don't have khorns, just would love a pair. Problem is I never figured my room would support them. My question is, if I had a pair and I inclosed the backs, would I be able to toe them out instead of putting them at 45 degrees? See the image below that shows my room and how they would face IF I had them and if they were at 45% in the corners. I think the sweet spot would be way to far in front of me no???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Yes and yes. This is why IMO you need to enclose a K-horn for anything but close listening or if you have a 20' or wider room to put them in. I have mine toed out a quite a bit and I'm about 15-16 feet off from my ears to the fronts of each speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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