Mr._Music_Fan Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Hey folks, I am about to enter into the world of tubes and I would like to know if anyone here has used a Decware SuperZen amp. If you have used this amp or the Zen Amp from Decware, I would like to hear your thoughts. I will be driving Forte II's. Listed below is the page for the amp I'm considering. http://www.decware.com/newsite/SE84CKCS.html Thanks again guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 The Decware SE84 'zen' amps are kind of on the dry side of the single ended tube spectrum, if that makes sense. Less ripe or full than similarly powered direct heated triodes, generally speaking. But they deliver the SE goods, with plenty of 'wetness' in the sense of revealing the acoustic space in the mix and superb imaging/soundstaging. Top marks in that regard. If you can find a good deal on a used one, it would be a nice initial voyage into the tube zone. I had a SE84C driving forte II in a 13x19x8 room, deeply corner loaded but slightly off the floor, and the response was deep, copious, surprisingly not boomy/ringy, and got louder than I could personally stand before gross clipping occurred. It was great, very Khorn-esque in it's presentation, like the whole room was wearing cans, it really put you in the music. I miss that room and system setup, it was just about perfect. In a much larger room, further distance from corners, and still stand mounted, the 2 watts is enough for pleasantly loud but the amp's limits were reached much sooner, of course. What are you working with, room wise? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aercool Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Have you checked out the Toolshed Renaissance 4 amplifier? Working with Matt at Toolshed has been great, lots of fun to discuss amps, music, vinyl vs. CD, etc. Oh yeah, and he builds a great amp t'boot! Just another one to consider in your search: http://www.toolshedamps.com/products/renaissance4-stereo-amplifier-1 I couldn't be happier with mine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthews Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Have you checked out the Toolshed Renaissance 4 amplifier? Working with Matt at Toolshed has been great, lots of fun to discuss amps, music, vinyl vs. CD, etc. Oh yeah, and he builds a great amp t'boot! Just another one to consider in your search: http://www.toolsheda...reo-amplifier-1 I couldn't be happier with mine. +1 - TSA builds are amazing works of art and sound. Not to mention, I believe he gives forum members and nice discount. Highly recommended Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alto Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I've got two Zen triode amps and they were great. We built a new house and our living to big for them now. Steve Dekert has improved this amp many times over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr._Music_Fan Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 Thanks guys for the feedback. Skibum: I have read somewhere where someone else also felt at times this amp was "dry". They also went on to praise the sound staging and imaging. Have you owned/demoed the SuperZen? Here is my setup: Speakers - Klipsch Forte II (on 5" aluminum legs) Room size - 14'5" by 12'5" Room specifics - 8 foot ceilings, carpeted, microfiber couch in the middle. Speaker Placement - they are about 8" to 12" inches away from the walls and about 6'6" apart. Aercool/Matthews: Thanks for the referral, I am intrigued by TS amps. I will reach out to Matt and learn more. Alto: do you still have those Zen Triodes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zim. Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Skibum: I have read somewhere where someone else also felt at times this amp was "dry". They also went on to praise the sound staging and imaging. Have you owned/demoed the SuperZen? I have not demo'd the super zen. The differences that I'm aware of are the meters (which seems pointless on a self-balancing/cathode bias amp) and the newer output transformers, which are still tiny. Output iron is significant in tube amps, but I'm not sure how much better the new ones are over the old ones, whose bandwidth exceeded that of my fortes. As for the 'dry' comment, that is mainly in comparison to a direct heated triode amp. The Decware will be slightly 'wet' compared to solid state, just not as 'wet' as some other tube approaches, which I think makes it a good first tube amp for those coming from solid state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Question for TS Matt regarding the Renaissance 4 amp recommended above. I see that you are offering Deckert's Hazen grid modification when using SV83s in the output stage. With this being a pentode amp, have you been able to measure any differences as compared with connecting G3 to the cathode? I ask because Deckert, when running EL34s triode strapped, measured virtually no change, but claimed a significant audible difference. http://www.decware.com/newsite/paper146.html Maynard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToolShedAmps Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Question for TS Matt regarding the Renaissance 4 amp recommended above. I see that you are offering Deckert's Hazen grid modification when using SV83s in the output stage. With this being a pentode amp, have you been able to measure any differences as compared with connecting G3 to the cathode? I ask because Deckert, when running EL34s triode strapped, measured virtually no change, but claimed a significant audible difference. http://www.decware.com/newsite/paper146.html Maynard Hi Maynard, To answer your question, no. The difference could not be measured at any frequency (at least not the freq's my tone generator is capable of ie., 50, 200, 440, 1k, 10k, and 15k). However, as compared to tying g3 to either the cathode or ground with just a piece of wire, there seemed to be a significant difference in sound-stage depth nearly up to cut-off when testing the stereo pair. (I DO have to also make the distinction between the SV83 in general terms compared to the 6bq5/EL84 in my same circuit). IMHO, the SV83 even WITH the Hazen grid-tied 0.1uF high-quality, film cap, CANNOT hold a candle to the truly EXCELLENT mid-60's Sylvania "black-plate" 6bq5. Obviously, each of us has our own likes and dislikes, and this is my opinion only. So much so, I would actually prefer to maximize the performance of one or the other (and will do so at customers' request). Again, I'd rather run g2 a bit "hotter" if the amp is only to be used with 6bq5/EL84. TS Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Nomad Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) Probably to late to be of any value... I've owned an SE84CKCS for about a year driving a pair of late-70s Cornwalls. Your Forte IIs appear to be a half dB more efficient, so beyond saying you should get more Quality Loud for your 2.3 Watts/channel than I do, no further comparison is offered. One disclaimer: I had balanced inputs added, and am using an Oppo BDP-105D as a direct source. Back on the beam... Overall, I'm happy. I've done some mild tube rolling. If you go with this amp, I would suggest not bothering with swapping in rectifiers of output tubes: What comes with the amp is fine. The input tube is a different story. The amp ships with a 6N1P-EB (a Russian military entry in the 6922/6DJ8 family). I dropped in a vintage 6DJ8, getting incredible top and mid, giving up a significant amount of low frequency response. Soundstage and depth were fantastic. The other end of the spectrum is the 6922. With a vintage Amperex, the 6922 top is not as good as the 6DJ8, the mid is, and the bottom is far better. Overall, the 6922 sounds balanced and "right." One odd bit: While the soundstage of the 6DJ8 sounds better, the depth with the 6922 is superior. The 6N1P-EB falls in the middle. Edited March 11, 2016 by Mike Nomad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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